Why do you think this bothers me?

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11 Comments

First thing I should say is I am an atheist. I have a few spiritual beliefs, but for the most part I'm fairly certain there isn't a god. With this you'd think I wouldn't care whenever someone insults God or Christianity or anything, but for some reason it does. I have OCD so I tend to have repitive thoughts I obsess over, and for about two years now I've had specific scenarios I've encountered where people insulted religion that still make no sense to me (examples include people making fun of me for making a joke with the word "God" in it, somebody commenting on two of my memes saying how Jesus isn't the son of God, and then being called a hypocrite by saying it was pointless, having only insults in my YA question about why blasphemying the Holy Spirit is unforgivable, the list goes on). It's especially scary to me when anti Christian comments are the majority and get upvotes whereas Christian comments get downvoted. My best guess is that when I was younger the fear of punishment from God for insulting him, as well as this superstition that everyone knows God is real and that's why people react so harshly to his name, have been so engrained into me that even after deconverting a part of me still believes it. I'm sorry for the long post but this has been confusing me for such a long time!

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Comments ( 11 )
  • rayb12
    7 years ago

    Kind of have felt a vaguely similar way my whole life, but after trying hard to explain it to someone it went away. Like for me it was analyzing the bible and it's societal impact as something a bunch of people wrote, like any other fictitious piece of literature. And how I kind of do but don't believe that is what it is. Or I know its made up but still feels more than something a person would make up today. And the more I tried to articulate I came across if I think it's made up, it's made up, or that is my belief. The other feelings kind of dissipated. Because I think not believing there is a god, or at least the religious god, is part of it, but then you also need to consciously go through all the parts you learned connected to that premise, and realize none of those are true either. I think because there's that disconnect and level of abstraction between god and jesus, god and the bible, god and christianity. It's possible to understand the premise is made up but still believe in these things that stem from it. Just my thoughts. Happy blaspheming

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    • DerHaifisch
      7 years ago

      Had a 2000 character long and probably totally unclear reply ready, but going to just pick in to your statement (hink you'll understand).

      I agree with "you also need to consciously go through all the parts you learned connected to that premise, and realize none of those are true either" and the "It's possible to understand the premise is made up but still believe in these things that stem from it". But what strikes me as so clearly visible once you drop the dogma's is the different between the "good parts" (the jesus as pinnacle of love and goodness) from the crap added by those using religion as a way to control people and to build themselves an empire.

      Try these out and see the dogmatic crap!!

      - "children are automatic part of the kingdom of heaven" like saying their utter innocence and purity is -DUHH- enough to ensure they get into heaven if something might happen..

      - "your infant needs to have it's forehead smeared with oil or it will burn in hell because of what adam and eve did so insanely long time ago. The ultimate of sins, ie being able to judge for themselves what is good and what is bad"

      - "he who follows my example/path of trying to be as good a person as possible will find true bliss" Not "try not to think for yourself just abide and agree to our rule" but DO AS I DID (emphasis on the doing part not the submit to an institute and go through the ceremonies") but DO AS I DO. Simple as that, do as he did, and your in heaven!

      - "you need to tell an official of our institute all your violations of our rules so you are forced to shame yourself, otherwise again, burning fires of hell await you!"

      - "Somehow there is a reason for all the wealth and gold owned by our organisation as the bling bling pleases god more than for example spending part of it to finally get all those infected by lepra (rotting alive) cured"

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      • rayb12
        7 years ago

        Hey thanks for your response. I'm not sure how it applies. My post was a set of strategies so that your emotions towards a religion align with your beliefs, rather than the nostalgic associations that no longer hold for you logically. It was not a commentary on any pieces of the religion and if they are 'good' or not.

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        • DerHaifisch
          7 years ago

          Sorry for misunderstanding then. Ment to say that even though most people -when renouncing dogmatic belief- are lured into rejecting the whole package and feel the need to reject every single aspect as if it was a binary thing. True/false, black/white. "Either all made up and thus without value vs. believe 100% and challenge nothing". Other end of the spectrum some might be so used to a way of thinking (taught during childhood) that indeed they neglect challenging that way of thinking. (thought you implied all that)

          What I wanted to point out that to me there is a middle ground, and in case of Christianity it is so crystal clear what fits the "just try to be a good person" half and what fits the half containing all that disgust me regarding religious zealots and the institutionalized attempt to get people to avoid thinking rationally. Can't understand how they get away with selling the original content along with those attempts at indoctrinating.

          The final irony being that (again imho) in order to see the potential good regarding christian or any faith, you must drop the dogma's, drop the actual "belief" and then it becomes so obvious what is just "try to be a good person" vs all the crap added and used to gain power as an institute. So plainly visible but hidden if you are a "True Believer".

          From what I gather I would bet that the real figure behind the Jesus concept (if he existed) would go absolutely MENTAL if he'd see what a caricature they turned his humanist "love everyone and be the best person one can be" into.

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          • rayb12
            7 years ago

            For sure yeah it wasn't my intention to get into this stuff you're talking about with my post. But I agree with it. I was raised Jewish so my perspective is a little different, but one distinction is from the standpoint of certain sects within religions it is all or nothing. Meaning you are not allowed to ask questions.

            Also slightly different but then certain parts of religions have beliefs that dictate onto others. (It's my belief that we are all always effecting each other) but specific scenarios it's understandable why religions get singled out for this.

            I think it's important to note that if we are in fact attempting to listen to each other there are big portions of the world that believe in religion being law and not in asking questions.

            I don't believe these values can be written off, even though autonomy and critical thinking is my preference.

            This is getting in to having nothing to do with what either of us were talking about, but I see people on the left when they think they have won the debate by saying 'to each his own' 'do what you like as long as it doesn't effect me'. Without realizing that they have no understanding of how religions work and that individualism is a fairly recent concept. (They also still are opposed to things like statutory rape, that should fall into the 'doesnt effect me' category).

            But I hear what you're saying. To me though I guess I am not qualified to talk about the 'true Scotsman jew' or Christian. But I was taught that religion is about submission. Truth in religion comes not from logic (also a very recent thing) but from being passed down through many generations.

            This is not to say there is not value in approaching religion like you do, but I believe there is something of value in blind acceptance. Maybe have a little too much internalized reverence for it. But some of the best people I've met have been deeply religious. And I guess come to think of it they don't take the full Bible at its word as that is contradictory and impossible. But I don't think their mentality is that they are choosing from it what they like and deciding what they think is wise.

            Understand this is all coming from a person who is not religious whatsoever. Or even affiliates as anything. But I don't know if you also see this distinction and the trade off involved in stepping back and deciding how you want to use the bible vs. an old fashioned way.

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  • ZaneT
    7 years ago

    If God is not real, why does he get blamed for everything when its the devil's world to begin with? No one ever blames Satan for anything, yet there are plenty of misguided people who are lining up to worship him formally and by proxy. Then we have the big bang theory, the unproven scientific theory that creation originated in an explosion.

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    • DerHaifisch
      7 years ago

      Isn't satan actually doing the work that god wants him to do? (like tempting the faithful as a test?) If not then at least God isn't stopping him either, even though god is "God" and nothing is beyond his powers no.

      And again, if you believe in an omnipotent and omniscient God, why exactly would it be beyond his powers to indeed, just let creation originate in an explosion? I you truly believe, then I hope you are not contemplating the idea that we puny human minds could hope to one day glimpse the mind of the all-knowing!

      And no, isn't an arrogant attack or joking, it is just being frustrated by believers in an omnipotent and omniscient God and in the same breath claim they were made in his image somehow and that we are able to decide what are god's limitations. You know the iron used by your red blood cells originated from an exploding star! And I want to bet that the dogmatic bible-followers will ridicule that and claim that is too weird, instead of actually thinking "wow, if that isn't insanely beautiful and perhaps a testament of how The Creator I choose to believe in is really GOD!"

      Nah, some choose the ancient 7 days and micromanaging the whole lot. Okay, explain why god would be enjoying manually creating something as fucked up sadistic as deep sea anglerfish. (not there looks, but read up on the way they procreate and the insane fate of the male anglerfish)

      Sorry if I came across as attacking you and yes, you are free to choose what to believe in, but at least realize that "you were judging and limiting god's powers"

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  • Blue2048
    7 years ago

    It's all the miffed and they don't exist

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  • DerHaifisch
    7 years ago

    (Sorry for replying with huge posting myself) But going to make a guess, up to you to evaluate: You used to believe, which is dogmatic, you have no proof whatsoever (anticipating replies that you can't disproof it either but that is worth a separate discusson). Anyways, you became an atheist and there is big chance that the "claiming something to be true without any logical reason true fenotype, fear of perhaps damaging yourself by not agreeing, "subconscious peer pressure like most people around me say it is true", etc

    Perhaps you felt that those reasons "tricked" or "pushed" you into believing?

    Well, the negativity you describe from atheists like jokes, up-or-down-voting en masse, basically ridiculing and ganging-up is the very same crap you blame for making you a believer in the first place. (Atheist myself, problems with Christianity as a dogmatic belief is article of faith "god made us in his image" which is kind of illogical given they believe he is omnipotent and omniscient. Creationists old style are true dogmatics, and the ID people apart from the agnostic style do believe in an omnipotent god but think they can be a judge of what is beyond his powers unless they agree with everything on-religious and scientific and put god behind the big bang so to speak, and that might very well be. All other limitations one puts on the ID idea is basically -again- human judging onmipotent being?

    The person we know as Jesus as described in the new testament is the pinnacle of lovingness/forgiving/open mindedness/etc Old testament has a prophet being ridiculed by children for being bald warn them 3 ties, after which he prayed for gods help (remember kids joking that he was bald), and gods comes to his aid by sending bears out of the woods that eat those children!

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  • Chocobonobble
    7 years ago

    I don't know what to believe in anymore. But I'm content with that. Maybe its your OCD plus your past causing this. I'm not sure but if it really concerns you, seek a therapist.

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  • DerHaifisch
    7 years ago

    Hope I won't offend, but I' just too curious, do you see the old testament as linked to the new or do you consider it "to be ignored"? Because seriously, the old testament contains stories of rape, kidnapping, all-out violence and even goes so far as to include stories about incest! (no kidding) And given that the thought alone is already a sin, then surely agreeing with the old testament is certified ticket to hell no? That sort of grave sinning isn't exactly following his path or spreading the joyful message no..

    Also, strikes me as odd that there would be a demand from a deity to "do absolute good to all", BUT you must do so because you fear punishment or want the reward. Doing it because of simply "having non-believing heart in the right place, without hoping to gain anything" would not get you into heaven?

    This leads to another question: what about all people before Jesus? They were just out of luck then or do they get special rules to avoid sending them all to hell just because they lived before Jesus came? Feels unfair that a true altruistic goodhearted person who helped everyone he could would burn because he/she lived to early in time or because he/she did good for simply genuinely wanting to good. However -in case of agreeing with the old testament- people who are bribed to do some good while agreeing in thought to rape/kidnapping/incest(lol!!) would enter heaven. As I said, hope I didn't offend and just curious to get your view on this.

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