Pro-life or pro-choice?
I was looking around on is it normal and started to wonder how many people out there actually thought like me.
| Neutural | 12 | |
| Pro-life | 35 | |
| Pro-choice | 94 | |
| Pro-choice under certain circumstances | 34 | |
| Other | 2 |
Help us keep this site organized and clean. Thanks!
[
Report Post
]
Comments ( 48
)
-
Cuntsiclestick
-
-
-
Devyn
So they should give the child up for adoption.
People can't just randomly kill their children because they didn't want to be a parent any more. Why should the situation be any different before the child is born?
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
Cuntsiclestick
Sometimes adoption is not an option for people. Without insurance, the cost of bringing a child into this world can range from 7,000 to 10,000 dollars. A c-section birth can range from 12,000-25,000 dollars. Because insurance doesn't cover everything, she'll still be in debt. It's best to terminate the child before she and the father of the child go into debt.
Of course people aren't going to kill their kid once it's born. The parents(or just the mother) made the choice to keep the child, so now they're stuck with it.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
Cuntsiclestick
I misspoke in the last paragraph. When a child is much older, of course they can't kill it. They chose to keep it and have to deal with it even if they didnt want to be a parent anymore. They had the choice to make before it was born. Aborting an unborn baby and murdering a child are two different things. If you're trying to say abortion is murder, I disagree. If abortion was murder, every single person that got an abortion and the employees at the abortion clinics would be in jail.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
Devyn
Personally I think life is always more important than money and anyone who values not being debt over the life of their child has their priorities wrong.
It is true that in law aborting an unborn baby and killing a child are treated differently. My point is that I think the law is wrong here, it draws a distinction between a baby and a foetus treating one as human life and the other as not human life.
This distinction is clearly nonsense. Inside the mother, the foetus is alive, it still has a brain, it can think and it has free movement, there is no distinct difference between it and a baby other than that the foetus is still attached to the mother. Why should a human only gain a right to life once it has been detached from its mother?
If you can provide a good reason why a foetus should not be considered a human life, you win the argument.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
Cuntsiclestick
"If you can provide a good reason why a foetus should not be considered a human life, you win the argument."
Argument? I was just giving my opinion.
I tried to avoid saying this, I'll just say it. I believe it's a living thing, but I just don't care. If it's not already outside the womb, then it can be terminated before other people's lives are ruined.
Back to my original opinion in this thread: No man or woman should be forced to be a parent.
Making it illegal would a person's right to choose away. No woman should be forced to carry a kid for nine months that she didn't want. There are some women whose bodies can't handle a pregnancy and abortion is necessary to save her life. No woman should have to go through the financial burden of hospital bills and possibly taking care of child she didn't want in the first place. No man should have to suffer by being forced to pay child support for a kid he didn't want either. No woman who was raped should have to bear their rapists child.
Making it illegal won't stop people from getting the abortion. They're less likely to die getting the procedure done by a professional in a safe place then of dying from a fatal injury caused by an illegally done one.
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
-
-
-
[Old Memory]
-
Francophile22
So the father, whose genetic material contributed half, has no say in this? preposterous.
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
Ibelievethis
. 2 people may make the choice to have unprotected sex, but the baby did not ask to be concieved. xx
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
[Old Memory]
-
-
-
Riddler
-
-
Antir0b0t
Yes. Pro-choice people do exist. Abortion arguments annoy me, mainly because what people argue about isn't relevant. Making it illegal denies us women one of our basic rights. The right to choose if we want to be a mother. It doesn't matter how anyone else feels about it, it's about basic human rights.
Anyways, that's how I feel. <3Comment Hidden ( show ) -
KeddersPrincess
I personally don't believe in abortions, however, I do think if a woman is raped and she doesn't want to carry the child of the assaulter, then she is permitted. It just isn't fair to me that someone can just have sex for the fun of it, not thinking of consequences, and then when she gets pregnant she can just rid it like it's all fine and dandy. I believe a life is a life no matter how long someone's been around, and I am mostly pro-life. However, I went with "depends on the circumstances" due to that fact that some women don't have a choice in getting pregnant.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
Ibelievethis
Even a baby concieved through rape is still inocent and uncorrupt. The rape certainly wouldn't be the baby's fault. xx
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
NeuroNeptunian
"I personally don't believe in abortions, however, I do think if a woman is raped and she doesn't want to carry the child of the assaulter, then she is permitted. "
The only problem with that if it were a law would be... how would you prove the rape?
Put the man on trial? By the time that trial is over, the woman probably won't even have the ability to get the abortion without literally killing a self-sufficient fetus.
And do trials always give true verdicts? I have studied law for the past two years and I can honestly tell you that not every woman who is raped who files charges gets justice. Defense attorney's often tear those women apart in court because maybe she had a DUI offense so she's obviously a drinker, maybe the man is right and she drunkenly consented? She has an assault charge, a violent person loses credibility. She consented to him before the actual sexual encounter, so it's her fault for giving him the wrong idea.
The "blame the victim" mentality carries into our juries and a woman can find that her rape will be justified by a few slutty pictures of the party or a dirty text she might have sent him. I'm not saying that men are never falsely accused and convicted, but there are many women that don't get justice because he can afford great legal help... and she can't!
If abortion is only legal when she is raped, you will either have women going to desperate measures to their own bodies to not have to face their attacker in trial (and they may not even know who he is!), to take care of the problem themselves because the rapist is never caught, to take measures because the trial is taking too long and the due date is coming up fast or many, many more men being falsely accused of rape.
Some women are so desperate that they'll do anything to not have to endure motherhood, for whatever reason.
I wouldn't force a rape victim to have to face their attacker in court, being raped often does horrible things to one's psychology, especially in a society that teaches "don't get raped" rather than "don't rape". You might as well just hand them a knife and turn your back if you are willing to drag them through that again. Even if your morals incline you to believe that they must stand trial regardless. When it comes to the psychology of a rape victims, morality won't help them.
Women don't always choose to get pregnant, either way, even if she is being completely responsible and safe, it happens.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
KeddersPrincess
I understand that. And for that reason, I would go pro-choice, but I don't think it's fair when someone uses abortion as though it is a birth control. Call me a hippie, but I believe all life deserves a chance. I feel like, if it's that easy to kill something just because it's not born yet, then why not kill someone who is already here. Your argument makes sense. I won't deny that. But it's against my morals, as a person, to take the life of something just because you made a mistake. I feel like if someone makes a mistake, they should have to pay the consequences.
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
-
dappled
-
-
-
Saycheese
This is the exact answer I was going to put.
If I ever happen to get raped, I do not want to see the face of my rapist for the rest of my life. I don't care if you don't believe in abortion there is no way I would except the child if that situation happened.
And no if there is a stupid reason for an abortion, like I got pregnant by accident then yes I'm against it in that stupid situation. There is no way someone gets pregnant by accident.
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
[Old Memory]
If one is allowed to avoid parenal resposnibility, then the other parent should be allowed.
If abortion is allowed, then financial abortion should be allowed.
If avoiding parental resposnibility is only allowed for mothers, then fathers should be allowed to do the same in some manner, otherwise I am against it.Mother and father should have choice, if one is allowed, the other should be, if one is allowed and the other isn't, I don't agree with it.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
NeuroNeptunian
I agree with this.
It is true, that not every female chooses pregnancy but sometimes it happens. In that case, she has the choice to terminate parenthood (in countries where it is legal).
And not every male chooses to impregnate his partner, but sometimes it happens. In that case, he also should have the choice to terminate parenthood.
Women now have the right to choose their mates, it is not forced upon them by law or by their families, as that is unlawful. So choose your mates wisely, and don't blame the man you're with when the phrase "it takes two" (which is often applied to men exclusively) DOES encompass the woman as a part of the two.
However, if one parent makes an obligation to the child and they abandon that obligation, they should be held accountable for their actions. The window of opportunity for financial abortion for men, like actual abortion for women should close when the pregnancy has ended with a birth, assuming the man had knowledge of the pregnancy.
I'd say I'd go with your idea, pre-emptive financial abortion and she signs the paper before they have sex. Not very kinky but neither is having to give everything up because the woman you're with who proclaimed her love for abortion rights seems not to agree with the concept of abortion herself.
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
VioletTrees
I basically agree with this, yeah. I can think of exceptions, like if there's been a prior agreement that the couple would keep and care for a baby together, or if a couple has already had children when one person leaves. The whole idea that a man is obligated to provide for a child he sires, regardless of whether he wants to keep it, seems old fashioned to me. I think it comes from the idea that you shouldn't have sex unless you're ready for children (which I wholeheartedly disagree with), and it also smacks of an image of women as the victims of sex (even consensual sex), rather than responsible participants.
Incidentally, in the US, if a woman is separated from the father of her child, and he's taking care of the child, does she have to pay child support? Because she should.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
NeuroNeptunian
"it also smacks of an image of women as the victims of sex (even consensual sex), rather than responsible participants."
The mentality, "if you won't make her a wife, don't make her a mother" angers me.
I could understand if the issue was rape or criminal actions but often it is not. The mentality makes women look weak. Fuck them. No man is making me become a Mother, I am choosing to do so, just as I could choose not to become a Mother. I can control my sexual desires, I am not weak, I too chose to have the sex. What, so it's "my body, my choice" when I want to keep the kid, but when I want to keep it and he doesn't, it no longer becomes my choice, my body?
"Incidentally, in the US, if a woman is separated from the father of her child, and he's taking care of the child, does she have to pay child support? Because she should."
Yes, I know of women who have left their husbands and their children with them and they are ordered to pay child support, if the man has custody of the children and seeks it.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
VioletTrees
Oh, that's good (about the child support, I mean).
I could understand not allowing men to back out if we didn't have safe, reliable abortion, but we do. I'd also understand it a bit better if our society were still at a point where it's pretty much impossible for a single mother to raise a child, but we're not. I do think it makes sense to have benefits for single parents, but they don't necessarily have to come from the other parent.
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
-
[Old Memory]
-
shade_ilmaendu
Why isn't this an issue that I ever see being publicized anywhere? Especially with all the reproductive rights issues going on lately. I realise that the republican party is focusing on women's reproductive rights with the laws being passed, but equality for one gender should tie in to equality for the other.
Too often feminists and men's rights activists are fighting against each other, it seems. How much more good do you think they would do if they worked together?
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
VioletTrees
I agree with you mostly; however I've got a problem with just about all men's rights activists I've talked to, which is that they deny male privilege.
Yes, men are hurt by gender inequality. Yes, that's just as worthy of our attention as the ways women are hurt by gender inequality. Men still have privilege over women, though. Here's a quick list of some of the ways that male privilege benefits men:
• Men are far less likely to be sexually harassed than women.
• If a man makes a mistake at his job or school, people won't see it as a reflection on his entire sex.
• If a man doesn't have children, he isn't seen as unfeeling or as less of a man.
• Men aren't taught to be afraid to go out alone to the extent that women are.
• Most major religions argue that men should be the head of the household.
• Most movies and TV shows are made to appeal to straight male fantasies (sexually and non-sexually).
• Most elected officials are men.These aren't things men should feel bad about. Nobody chooses to have privilege Most of them are things that everybody should have. I'm not arguing that there are no advantages to being a woman, either, but there's no such thing as "female privilege", because men have more power in our society than women do. Maleness is seen as the default, while femaleness is seen as the exception. (Note: There are, of course, other ways women can have privilege over men. For example, a white woman has white privilege over a black man, a straight woman has straight privilege over a gay man, etc.) Denying this doesn't help anybody. When the tone of MRAs arguments is so often "Women aren't really oppressed, ONLY MEN ARE OPPRESSED", we can't get anywhere.
Too often, I've seen MRAs derail conversations about issues that affect women by saying "What about the men?". There are a few situations where this is appropriate such as pointing out that an article about eating disorders or rape assumes that all sufferers or victims are female. In many cases, though, it's not appropriate. For example, if we're talking about women being objectified in the media, don't come in and say "the way men are depicted in movies can be harmful, too", as if that somehow makes it all equal and ok. That's true, of course, but it's not what we're talking about right now. When MRAs are constantly changing the subject in conversations about gender issues that affect women or denying that gender inequality even hurts women, it's really, really hard to work with them. There SHOULD be discussions of how gender roles and inequality hurt men, and there are, but people who want to discuss that shouldn't so aggressively interrupt discussions of how these issues hurt women.
Mind, there are feminists who don't help matters, too. Basically, I steer clear of anybody who calls herself a "radfem" or "second wave". If you don't see transwomen as women, you're doing it wrong. If you see men as the enemy, I just… I can't help you. Unfortunately, there are feminists like that who are very, very vocal. I've actually known feminists who are against penis-in-vagina sex. This is baffling to me. How can you be against adults having consensual sex that they enjoy? Who is that supposed to help? Fortunately, most feminists aren't like that.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
shade_ilmaendu
Ugh, I've known a few people who can't accept that my trans friends were their chosen gender. It's funny, people will claim to be openminded and accepting... unless things get too weird for them. Then they don't recognise that they're being dicks about something.
I definitely agree with you, though I feel like that really shows the problem with the internet. I'm on reddit as well, and the MRA's on there are terrible. Then you have to consider you're dealing with lots of socially awkward and repressed people, many of whom are probably teenagers, and you start to put the arguments into perspective. At least that's been my experience.
I've seen a few really good articles about men's rights recently, talking about how they need to incorporate with the feminist movement rather than fight against it as they tend to do. Feminists aren't trying to deny men's issues, they're just focusing on the female issues because that's what they chose as their specific career path. There are radicals in every group of course, but I hate the MRA's who deny their privelidge. I know I'm privelidged becase I'm a white woman. There was a really nice wheel I got in my women's studies class that charted out all the privlidged and oppressed groups.
Comment Hidden ( show )-
-
-
VioletTrees
The problem is that the whole men's rights thing is really attractive to assholes who don't have any respect for women. It's not everybody involved (and maybe it's not how it started), but it's a lot of them. Men's rights spaces shouldn't be places for guys to complain about being "friendzoned" or "creep shamed", but most of them end up being just that.
The concept of "creep shaming" is particularly sinister, I think, because it frames women expressing their discomfort as oppressors. The term draws a comparison to slut shaming, but it's not the same kind of issue at all. It's never useful to call somebody a slut; it serves no purpose except to shame that person for their sexuality. "Creep" and "creepy", however, are useful terms: it's a way of saying "I think this person or situation might be dangerous" without having to stick around long enough to put yourself in danger. Yes, it's often inappropriate to actually call somebody a creep, but most of the complaints I've read from guys (Reddit is full of them) don't even involve that word. Often, a woman has just said "That makes me uncomfortable", or "Don't do that", or, in one case, given a guy a look. The idea that women should feel bad for expressing discomfort or fear when our intuition tells us that we're not safe is just awful.
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
[Old Memory]
I haven't read all of that comment, I just woke up and I'mm too tired to, but I read the bulet points, so I'll offer some points that men have to deal with aswell that women don't.
- Men are far less likely to be believed when their partner is abusing them, and they are far less likely to be believed of being raped or abused. They also have to deal with false abuse and false rape charges far more than women.
- Personally, I have not seen that happen at all in school or a work place, and I would assume you haven't either.
- Again, I have never heard a anyone say a woman is uncaring or unfeeling for choosing not to have a child, everyone I have talked to about the matter has said that it's their choice to not do it and there's nothing wrong with it.
- Neighter are women, unless you are meaning women teach women to be afraid of going outside at dark. I have seen far more feminists and females say "IF YOU GO OUTSIDE YOU WILL BE GANGRAPED, EVERY BONE BROKEN, AND RAPED AGAIN!". I've not heard a man say that at all. And in actuality, males get the worse of physical abuse at dar. Women obviously get raped most, but males get beaten most.
- Religion is something that is barely believable anymore, atleast not in the UK, and when they are, the people play pick and mix with what parts of the religion they believe in, and the others they don't. But, you are right there, most religions don't see women as equal to males, or imply they're not.
- Maybe because male fantasies sell more than female fantasies? I heard somewhere about a year ago that there are reasons for males enjoying films more.The same can be said about makeup. It is to make women look better, and it only made for women to use.
- People's choice?
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
NeuroNeptunian
Because, and I am not saying this out of malice, it is would be seen as condoning bastardizing one's own children and harming women.
Personally, I think that women who do not choose their mates wisely are harming themselves. Personal responsibility.
Comment Hidden ( show )
-
-
iEatZombies_
-
-
NeuroNeptunian
Pro-choice.
I don't believe in abortion, especially when it is used as birth control. Women are not weak, we can control our sexual urges. I have been in the situation where I was tempted to have sex without a condom and I just refuse to risk it.However, I don't see myself as having the right to be judge, jury and prosecutioner. While I have my own moral opinions, abortion being illegal won't stop women from getting them. I would rather have them do it in a safe clinical environment than on the streets where, instead of taxpayers spending $500 on an abortion, they are spending $15,000 to ward off her impending death by infection.
And yes, I understand that it is not always the case that she was just being irresponsible, I understand that a woman shouldn't be judged by her circumstances and that abortion is not an easy choice to make. Ultimately, however, I am not the one that had to carry the baby for nine months, so it shouldn't matter what I think. And it doesn't.
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
Scarlettfox
The world is overpopulated already, if every foetus ever created was alive now, we would be all dying of hunger etc.
I think that if the zygote, or foetus or whatever is inside of a mother would not be able to live without the mother's support, it should be able to be aborted. And it is the mother and father's choice. If there is a disagreement, then it is ultimately the mother's choice, as it's her who is going to be in pain during labor, or have a c-section scar and have to carry the thing for 9 months.Comment Hidden ( show ) -
TheGasManCometh
If factors such as rape and medical complications are ignored, the question of whether abortion is OK or not comes down to where you draw the line - or when, in fact.
Sperm+Egg > Zygote > Embryo > Fetus > Baby
As most people think it's crazy to pick either of the extremes as the cut-off point, you have to pick an arbitrary point somewhere in between - and that's a bit of a problem.
(sorry kid, you're only 19 weeks, 6 days old - death for you. Oh wait, I got the date slightly wrong - you're a human being, killing you would be murder!)
To avoid that, let's pick the high end of the scale, and say that abortion is OK right up to the moment of birth. Actually, go one better - just after birth, the parents are allowed to look at the baby in private, and if it's deformed, or the wrong colour, or has its father's wonky nose, they get that one chance to stick it in the handily-placed incinerator - no questions asked. Killing it after that is just WRONG!
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
myboyfriendsbitch
I would be neutral, but that would mean i didn't care whether a woman had this choice or not. I would say "in certain circumstances" but that would only give some women their right of choice. I myself would never get an abortion unless it was absolutely necessary for my sanity or health, but it's so hard to decipher who needs an abortion and who doesn't that it's best left as a choice made by the individual woman.
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
anti-hero
As I have said every time I have seen this question on IIN...
"I am pro choice except in the cases of rape, incest and pregnancy." -Fake Herman Cain from THSS
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
Andrew256
-
Riddler
Im pro responsible thinking.
If you are going to sleep around use precautions.
As well as that dont say "Oh no I need abortions since its impossible for me to use precautions or not have sex since if I dont have sex with every person I see I might just die".
No you are not going to die if your not boning everything within your line of site. Stop making everyone else suffer since you are an irresponsible moron.
I do believe it should be okay in certain circumstances, like for example if the mother is too young or not strong enough to have the kid and will die from it.
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
NormalIsOverratedBeANinja
I'm wholeheartedly pro-choice. No parent wants to see a rapist every time they look at their child - and it's not just rape, either; birth control CAN fail. The process of making a baby is a complicated thing, and there are so many things that can go wrong. Besides the fact that it should be a basic human right to be able to choose that sort of thing.
But I do like hearing different opinions about matters like this. I always try to get the full story, and to be accepting of people I don't agree with. Many pro-life activists make very valid points. There are always those who just don't like women being allowed to make their own decisions, but most do it for the sake of the baby. They still have human rights in mind, it's just a different human's rights, which I fully respect. And many are willing to compromise where it makes sense - many of the arguments I see are mainly about what qualifies as making sense.
All I can hope is that we come to a conclusion soon. It's silly, especially when so many of us already agree for the most part.
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
keeping_up_with_da_kids
I said other because the world is too populated and all baby's should die with out a choice!
Comment Hidden ( show ) -
iEatZombies_