Is neil degrasse tyson guilty?
We, the people of the internet, get to decide this man's fate long before any court proceedings.
| Yes | 7 | |
| No | 18 |
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jethro
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RoseIsabella
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Boojum
Silly question. When it comes to this sort of thing, men are guilty until proved innocent.
If I understand the situation correctly, some journalists have managed to find two women who say he made them feel uncomfortable in 2009 and last year, and a third woman who says that he must have done something nasty to her 30-odd years ago (even though she can't remember what it was). In the court of Internet justice, any man accused by a woman of making her feel awkward must hang.
Also, he's a scientist who talks about stuff that has nothing to do with the really important stuff celebrities do, so he's obviously a freak and must be guilty.
And he's a black man, and everyone knows what they're like.
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bigbudchonga
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megadriver
Is this one of those she had a one night stand with him 40 years ago and it was all well and good, but suddenly she decided said one night stand wasn't consensual, so instant lawsuit, cause reasons?
How do you fuck someone and then stay silent for 30+ years and then suddenly realize you didn't want to have sex with the guy, so therefore - rape.
No! If a woman fucked a guy and felt it was wrong, she has had more than enough time to address the issue. Doing that 30+ years later is moronic. It's like me filing a lawsuit against the extinct soviet regime in Bulgaria for making brake pads out of asbestos and poisoning my grandfather's pet rooster or something... It's idiocy at it's finest.
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nikkiclaire
Making someone uncomfortable isn't a crime but he admitted to it.
The third woman can't remember a crime occurring.
So what exactly would he be guilty of?
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Boojum
Being successful and an icon for some?
The third woman - the one from the eighties - sounds like a flake, and it was a very long time ago, so I don't see how either of them can be expected to remember precisely what happened then. I remember things from that long ago, but I don't recall everything that happened in my relationships, and I sure as hell don't remember them from the perspective of the women I was involved with.
As for the other, more recent cases, the thing about lifting a woman's sleeve to look at her tattoo seems to me a little gauche, at the very least. I've never messed with the clothing of any woman I wasn't intimate with. But then I've never been a touchy-feely person, and I tend to keep personal space around me.
With the driver, I can sorta understand her being uncomfortable, even if everything went down exactly as NDT describes and even if her discomfort was after the fact. However, I also have to wonder if a conversation she had with her fiancé after the "wine and cheese" might have had some impact on her perception of what had happened.
This stuff is hella complicated and fiendishly nuanced, and I don't see how anyone can really say who was in the right and who was wrong. There are some very obvious lines that should never be crossed and things are black and white when they are, but it sounds to me like this is all shades of grey. It seems to me that NDT's apology is genuine and I guess the best that might come out of this is that he reassess how he deals with women and maybe makes more of an effort to keep a greater distance from them.
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candylady
"It seems to me that NDT's apology is genuine and I guess the best that might come out of this is that he reassess how he deals with women and maybe makes more of an effort to keep a greater distance from them."
That's the entire point of this entire movement. Women would like men to reassess how they treat women and make more of an effort to not make them uncomfortable. You wouldn't think that'd be too much to ask, but somehow that gets turned into "guilty until proven innocent" and "must be hanged." That garbage doesn't help anybody.
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nikkiclaire
"That's the entire point of this entire movement."
At what cost? Who is going to believe real survivors after this is all done? This isn't helping us in the slightest, and it promotes us as the hysterical stereotype from the 50's.
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CozmoWank
Exactly. No one wants to be left off the "Me Too" locomotive so accusations start to fly. It gets to the point of absurdity. Remanisint of the Salem Witch trials.
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candylady
At no cost whatsoever. Anybody who claims they're less likely to believe "real survivors" because of this was never going to believe them in the first place. This kind of bullshit argument has been used against every equal rights campaign through history and they've always been proven to be bad faith logical fallacies.
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nikkiclaire
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nikkiclaire
Please mention that you edited the above post to change its context entirely. 😊
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raisinbran
I think the lesson here is that men should treat women the same way they treat kids, putting as much distance between them as possible so as not to come across as a pedophile or rapist.
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nikkiclaire
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PrincessaK
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 I agree. Women have become SO sensitive that men are almost afraid to engage in conversation with women... not wanting to insult or be insulted. Dating became VERY COMPLICATED especially since it’s now inappropriate almost “creepy” to flirt or date in a work environment . Thank God I’m married
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JellyBeanBandit
It's hard for me to believe that a guy as intelligent as he is would do something so stupid.
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JD777
Since you mentioned court proceedings, I’m going to assume you mean guilty of a crime in the US based on the current accusations against him.
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leggs91200
Is this another one of those "He touched my private parts 40 years ago!" fiascos?
They got Cosby, tried to get Kavanaugh, Trump, and whoever.
This gets old.
What do women have to gain from accusing men of sexual crimes decades after it may or may not have happened?Comment Hidden ( show )-
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candylady
Mostly harassment, up to and including death threats, and further violence, up to and including death. At least one of the women who Trump raped had to leave the country. The woman who Kavanaugh attempted to rape has had to move four times.
And yet people still think they make it up. Here's a novel idea...instead of trying to silence women who are harassed or assaulted, these "fiascos" would also go away if, you know, men stopped harassing and assaulting women.
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weeklyreader77
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nikkiclaire
Stop throwing around the word rape. Neither of those men have been found guilty of any such thing.
Do you believe in innocent until proven guilty? How about we all start referring to you as a baby killer. We think we saw you do it 30 years ago at someone's house. We don't know who's house it was but meh, that doesn't matter. You did it.
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candylady
Stop throwing around the word guilty. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in a court of law. An election or a Supreme Court justice vote isn’t a trial, it’s a job interview.
If somebody told you I killed a baby 30 years ago(and there was a witness but you refuse to interview him or anybody else who knew me back then because reasons) and I had a lifetime of defending baby killers and making disparaging comments about babies - including being caught on tape bragging about how I get away with slapping them around - would you let me babysit your baby?
Or do you think the person who tried to warn you should get death threats and have to move multiple times? It’s funny how the “innocent until proven guilty” crowd loves to convict women of making a false rape accusation before they’re found guilty.
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nikkiclaire
Look, no one is dismissing valid claims of assault or anything else. You have made the point here that you don't care if they are valid or not. Merely disliking women (purportedly) or making a feeble attempt towards picking one up, is enough, in your eyes to justify calling them a rapist. IT'S NOT! It sets women back and it will backfire on you and all of us, both male and female.
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candylady
Claiming to not dismiss valid claims or assault is pretty hollow if it’s next to impossible to meet your standard of valid claim. And I never once said or even implied that I don’t care if they’re valid...I have no idea what you could even be trying to twist to sound like that.
Who have I called a rapist? Donald Trump is a rapist. He all but admitted it when his ex wife said he raped her and his only defense was “it’s not rape if it’s your wife.” (Which is no longer true.) Brett Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist. That was proven during the senate hearings.
Everybody else? The ones who make women uncomfortable? Yeah, nobody’s calling them rapists. The only people using that word are the ones rushing to defend the men, who want women to shut up. All the women are saying is...get this...that the men made them uncomfortable. The conversation basically goes like this:
Man: (does something that makes a woman uncomfortable)
Woman: that made me uncomfortable, please don’t do that again
Man: oh so I’m a rapist now??? My career is over and my life is ruined!
Man’s friends and supporters: we’re going to kill you! How dare you call him a rapist!But somehow the women are the hysterical ones.
Every group who’s ever protested anything has been told they’re going about it the wrong way and it’s just setting the movement back. History has shown that’s never the case. Martin Luther King Jr and his peers were told that and now POC are told they should be more like MLK. It’s nonsense.
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nikkiclaire
No we were both interviewed. We know it was you but don't really remember any details so it can't ever be confirmed, but it was YOU, you baby killer. We will now commence to destroy your career and life baby killer.
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candylady
You never answered if you would let me babysit your kid. Don’t worry, I’m not an entitled manbaby that thinks I should be allowed to do whatever I want so I’m not going to claim my career and life are destroyed if I have to go back to my old job or apologize for my behavior and lay low for a couple weeks until I can come back like nothing happened and have everybody call it redemption.
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IrishPotato
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SwickDinging
It's a shame that these sorts of debates always turn into gender wars. Everybody is an individual. If someone lies about someone raping them it isn't because they are female, it's because they are a liar. And if a someone rapes someone it isn't because they are male, it's because they are a rapist. It's like saying that all dogs are evil because you once saw a rabid one bite somebody. Some people are just cunts and make the world worse for everyone, it's nothing to do with gender and you are ignorant if you think it is.
Anyway, I hope he didn't do it because I like him and his work but I don't know enough about it to make a judgement.
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