Is it normal to think that we are creating 'weak' adults?

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17 Comments

I have thought about this for a long time, trying to work out why so many young people want to 'escape' by using drugs or alcohol. It seems that this generation have never had it so good with wasteful gadgets, computers, etc. So what are they trying to escape from?

It seems to me that the experts in education are so worried about the young child's self esteem etc that kids aren't told off for poor effort or work. Therefore many teenagers have this false belief that they are clever, beautiful, etc etc. One of my friends laughed at an applicant's efforts as a nail technician, and even photographed the awful nail varnishing attempt of the 17 yo girl. The girl ran out of the interview crying :o(

My question was - why did she not know she was rubbish at painting nails?

Answer - no-one had ever told her! She was always falsely praised.

Unfortunately the real world isn't like this and bosses order / bully their employees and it's up to the teenagers to suck it up, if they want a wage!

I can't even blame the parents as our parents mostly worked to make ends meet and we were never given extra time, being read stories at bedtime, etc.

My generation knew that they had to behave well and produce a high standard of work or be disciplined via the cane, or at the very least, humiliated. At a very young age we were left alone to face the consequences of our actions. I think this means that when we are faced with 'real trouble' we face it head on. A lot ot the young people now, would buckle under the strain, and 'escape' which means bury their head in the sand (aka smoke some dope) hoping the problem goes away.

Can you think of any other reasons why we have so much drug abuse?

is it normal to think this way?

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79% Normal
Based on 33 votes (26 yes)
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Comments ( 17 )
  • joybird
    12 years ago

    In my generation it was the wealthy who took drugs - as they had experienced every other thrill that money could buy, so they sought out something dangerous for fun. The poor worked to make ends meet - and I mean searching skips for any items they could clean up and sell, or any odd hours they could get working for people.

    Dom180 I don't see the problem as being financial investment in schools as we sat on rows of benches with no colouring pencils, photocopiers, computers, etc. I see it as more of a problem that it sometimes takes 3-4 adults to control a primary school class because of one disruptive child. I guarantee that I could take that class on my own and the disruptive 6 year old would bloody know better than to turn over desks etc! The investment has been in training teachers to be so politically correct that they are no longer allowed to discipline children either verbally or physically.

    My friends and I knew to attend school because we would be caned and if our parents found out we would be beaten again.

    I love your final paragraph! Employees have NO rights within a short period of time while the employers get to know the employee and how lazy they are. Unfortunately, this is this generation's attitude - sue for compensation, or sit at home on government benefits!

    What about the discipline enforced by the army, navy, airforce, etc. should these men and women answer back and stand up for themselves? Or should they suck it up and realise that responding to orders without question could literally save their lives?

    Maybe our own young people should realise that doing what they're told by teachers and bosses could save them from financial ruin? Sometimes I just think that young people don't realise that their superiors aren't interested in their opinions, and they know they are stalling not wanting to do the work.

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  • dom180
    12 years ago

    The link you make between substance abuse and false praise is entirely foundless. Let me educate you:

    In almost every country on Earth, the gap between rich and poor is rising. This is due to lack of investment by governments in the education system and in affordable housing, which leaves many young people leaving education with no qualifications, no job and no roof of their head. You can see why young people turn to drugs and alcohol in that situation.

    The kids on drugs are not the ones who were not caned at school, they are the ones who never went to school at all.

    On a different note, it is NOT fair to expect an employee to "suck it up" if they are bullied at work. They should stand up for themselves. And if that means taking a boss to court if they are breaking the law, you do it. You do not sit back and take it. Better to quit than to take abuse at work.

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    • 9001
      12 years ago

      tl;dr.

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  • 1mansvoice
    12 years ago

    Read more history - none of this is new.

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  • Blackwargreymon
    12 years ago

    Mhmm get your facts straight, opposed to the past relative drug use and drug acceptance has gone down.

    I don't think it really is getting worse. Might be a case of the "the past always appears to be better".

    Have you ever considered that since manual labour in other countries is much cheaper, our society has turned into a 'knowledge'-society. And that modern society "can't" be judged by old standards.

    I still know a lot of people who care to put effort into their work! And maybe people just realised that the life they are given is better spend enjoying/actually living than working/slaving away.

    @joybird You never had me in your class. When I disagree with something in life I take a stand and fight for it. So when my teacher tried to contain me when I was a little kid(I was 6-8years old) I just went in for fight. The teacher had trouble walking the days after. I do NOT respond to physical threats. Then there were the "what do you think"/"hey come here talk about this"-teachers. They never had any trouble with me. The methods you suggest might work on weak willed individuals, but they would only have escaleded the situation would I've been involved.

    Finally have you ever been in front of a class in a healthy way? I'm a highschool teacher and I don't hit or yell at my students or feel the need to. Quite the opposite! They use my first name, we tutoyer and never vousvoyer. (Dutch is a language with a formal and informal you.) We just respect eachother and I've never had any trouble. (And yes I've had 'special needs' students and tbh they are the most fun and no trouble.)

    @calculator
    Same as above: "old times always seem better"
    I'm from the just-pre-calculator generation. And sure cramming facts that van be calculated by a machine in ms might seem usefull. (?realy?) But I rather spend time teaching/learning methods/theory, leave data retreival to machines, they are better at it.

    Last have you ever read about math didactics? Maybe you can read something about it. That is if you were ever taught to search/process information instead of only reciting the facts you learned.

    (And yeah I ALWAYS bring a calculator, a Philips screwdriver, batteries, a flashlight, a multi-tool+wire stripper, a dinosaur, 96GB removable disk space and INTERNET...ALWAYS)

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    • Anonymous Post Author
      12 years ago

      With all due respect, your Dutch culture towards drugs is entirely different to that of the UK and USA.

      You say that your teacher at 6 years old tried to 'contain' you. In my day, from your first day at school you would have been caned and if you dared to even answer back your parents would'be been so ashamed of you, that they would've beaten you too. There's no containment about it - we were beaten! It's not about all of us being allowed to be wonderful free thinkers, it's about having respect for your elders and betters. What do you know as a young child at school, you are an idiot compared to a teacher. So if this generation listened and learned they would do a lot better than always feeling they have the right to disrupt a class. They have no right to display a lack of manners or prevent others learning.

      I also teach children from 8-13 years and treat them like my own - firm but fair. I genuinely love children and although the disruptive ones initially bore me, once they engage with me, I think they are great! I do believe that many people underestimate children assuming that even a 2 year old doesn't understand what parents are saying about them to other adults - wrong!!

      However, one of my major concerns is the increase in teenage suicides because at the first sign of trouble they opt out, permanently!!! The 'experts' are linking this to drugs but personally I think it's just that they do not face consequences of wrong doing from an early age - whatever they may be. Many parents are so determined to live their own lives (drink and drugs) they let their children run wild. It takes a lot of energy to discipline a child for many years.

      Nor do I find any problem with rote learning, eventually it becomes second nature. We become very confused with varying 'expert' opinions but whatever works I'm happy to go with it!

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      • Blackwargreymon
        12 years ago

        *retry...phone submit button is next to keyboard, sorry everyone.

        @joybird

        Hehe I forgot about our culture with drugs here. Tbh I've never used any for reasons I won't go into(offtopic), but yeah, my parents have cannabis growing in their front garden, what a wonderful world being able to decide for ourselves. (Love the Eddie Izzard quote: “But the Dutch speak four languages and smoke marijuana!”)

        Yeah, I understand the premise, but I don't think we'll know how I would have reacted. I'm 'stubborn' to the self destructive and when you make it physical it is like a...signal that all things are allowed. And I can only imagine what it would been like, but I probably would have plotted some sort of revenge scheme. Still I was send to...euh...timeout I guess...a lot during that age, because teachers would tell me to do something, I would say no your logic is flawed, there is no merit to your given task, I refuse and then you could threaten me with everything, I would not do it. It is like order me to do something and I will not do it, ask me to do something and I will [most likely] do it. Though that might be a personality trait I picked up at birth.

        And see, they aren't. Believe me. I came from primary school (age ~4-12) a narcissistic bastard with the view that all people were stupid. Why? Because in general primary school teachers aren't smart and they can [easily] be outperformed and out-knowledged even at that age. And knowing you are smarter than the people supposed to teach you isn't that great for your world view or respect towards them. (I'm still a narcissistic bastard, but I've learned that not all people are stupid:D And I know I'm not that smart, which actually only makes it worse.)

        Bit offtopic, but I see the critical thinkers as a positive thing and giving respect to elders / authority figures a bad thing. Respect has to be earned based on evaluation and not on profession or age.

        Also research has shown that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative. But...I think the severity doesn't really matter, or the caning. You just have to be...mhmm...the word...firm I guess. consequent(the closest thing I could think of in English is consistent.)

        I read your description, so I knew a bit about it. Didn't know the target age though. Kind of interested in what you teach them/target group.

        Mhmm, could be. But like I said before drug use/acceptance is down and looking at suicide statics suggests that we're doing great. Take Japan for instance they seem to have the school system/society you are talking about and suicide and social defects are through the roof. (Hikikomori, NEETs and freeters.)

        *continue*

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        • Blackwargreymon
          12 years ago

          *continue*

          I do agree with the complimenting where no compliments should be given. It is a bit of a two sided issue in my opinion. Being honest and realistic is necessary. So no false compliments. (This however conflicts with a society that asks us to be polite and show respect to those who have not earned it, which is dishonest in the same way.) And yeah they should human up!(man up is sexist) But some people need the compliments to keep them going. When I fail, I get frustrated and will not give up till I succeed. It frustrates/disgusts me, but there are people out there that get very demotivated after repeated failures. (which isn't that strange) Then you've got the option to compliment/adjust the level to give them some confidence and they may end up at the desired level after smaller increments or create bad spirit towards the subject, which often leads to thinking they have/will fail without trying.

          I think it goes 'wrong' before that. Tbh I don't think most people have got the spirit for it. Still, I wouldn't say it has gotten worse. Using anecdotal statistics comparing my generation to my students I would say it even improved. Plus the 'increased'(?) stress of modern life is probably something that takes away the weaker ones at an earlier age. I think having to deal with that stress at younger ages is worse for suicide rates(as in increase) than the occasional compliment. (Stress(ing) =/= exhausting)

          I have no experience nor am I planning to gain that experience, because I would probably create a social defect with my Spartan methods. So I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you there. Haven't read anything about it, so I take anecdotal evidence as it is.

          And say those people commit suicide. Then, in light of a negative evaluation of their ethos, it would be a win for our species as long as they have not reproduced. I do not see a problem with a small percentage committing suicide for that reason, helps with overpopulation and modern natural selection.

          Then the most fun part is again...statistics. UK and Netherlands both low in the suicide rates. Then teen 0-24 suicide rates are down comparing to previous years. Ages 48-68 are up in suicide rate. So it are actually the old generations who are committing suicide and the new generation of teens seems to commit less suicide.

          *continue*

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          • Blackwargreymon
            12 years ago

            *continue*

            And I do see merit it the old system. It is just that modern technology has decreased the value of it. For example you can ask me all about historical dates. I can probably find all the information and more on my phone in about 5s opposed to the person who spend years learning those dates and facts. (And tbh can't be trusted, because human memory is not exact.)
            And since people don't have unlimited time, choices have to be made about how to spend that time. Then I would choose not learning the dates and facts and just how to use them. (Disclaimer: my memory is weak, I don't remember dates, names, what day it is, how old I am or what I ate last night. I can remember numbers, connections, algorithms stuff like that. So teaching me facts/data is about as effective as putting water into a sieve.)

            **I'll try remove the previous one though I don't see the option on my phone. -- found it on the computer, hey are you the author Joybird?

            And Joybird. I've seen you in a lot of topics. I like you! We always seem to disagree, which is nice:D

            Typing on a phone with a Dutch dictionary is hell. **

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            • joybird
              12 years ago

              Yes! That's me!

              You'll find I only post a topic after I have some sort of 'experience' which in this case was the suicide of a young man following an argument with his girlfriend :o( We are constantly told on the News that teenage suicides are on the increase.

              For your info, I teach 'dyslexic' kids how to read - I hate that word and don't believe there's any child / adult who can't be taught. I also teach young people maths and english, but spend most time concentrating on my teenage son. He was labelled as 'severely dyslexic' and set to be a failure in exams. He can read well now and always gets As in exams.

              However, I graduated with honours in Business Studies - so love the stock market, although I don't get much chance to follow it closely anymore.

              Love your comments as it gives me food for thought. I really enjoy a good debate, too often I find myself in the company of shallow people with no opinions. I an not a lenient parent or teacher, but it seems to work for me and them.

              :o)

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  • zchristian
    12 years ago

    The only drugs i have ever taken comes from medicin and i nearly never drink alcohol... Good parents FTW...

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  • FTWCM
    12 years ago

    Every kid is not special or a winner. The earlier that is understood, the better.

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  • stonecutters93
    12 years ago

    Personally I wish my generation had to go through the discipline they used to have. I know way too many people that complain about the smallest things of life and that they can't handle the stress, so they go out and get trashed in some way to "escape" it as you said. My generation is fucked up.

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  • theotherblonde
    7 years ago

    Middle of the road parenting with critical thinking skills and empathy thrown in is the best. If you are too lax you get an unchecked narcissist. If you are too strict you end up with a sarcastic slacker peter pan or neurotic mess who is afraid to leave the house.

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  • JuneB
    11 years ago

    Yeah, it's normal. We are.

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  • doxies4life
    11 years ago

    I wouldn't call them weak adults just lazy assholes that don't want to do anything and just want a way away from their fucked up lives.

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  • piman
    12 years ago

    Or when people rely on a calculator to do simple problems. They won't carry the damn thing everywhere...

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