Is it normal to be awe-struck by socially-accepted rudeness?

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I know there have been a lot of anti-smoking posts, and that's fine. I'm not saying any of those posters behave this way, but...

WHAT on earth is with the truly astounding number of non-smokers out there who (for some bewildering reason) think that "not smoking" is a free pass, a legitimate excuse, to act sub-human? To be vehemently rude and nasty to fellow human beings?

I've heard all the arguments. And I agree, if someone blew smoke in my face, refused to put it out near my baby, or heard my reasonable and polite request to modify their smoking behavior, that would make them a jerk.

I've seen a small portion (maybe 10-15%) of smokers behave this way. I don't personally know any (and I know a LOT of smokers. we congregate.) I mean who does this? Hating every smoker you see because 1 jerk blew smoke down your infants throat is like hating everybody from the middle east because 1 terrorist came from there. It's stupid and morally reprehensible.

And what is all this hogwash about "kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray" and the like? Why does every non-smoker have intimate knowledge of what licking ashtrays is like?? Also, guys, I have some startling news for you. If someone is FORCING you to kiss them, you have a LOT bigger problems than if they're a smoker or not. Otherwise, WTF are you doing smooching a smoker when you know you hate it? Make sense.

The VAST majority of smokers out there are like me. We try to be considerate, we accept that it's not popular, and we're realistically aware of the dangers of second-hand smoke. We're also decent human beings, so we generally try to be conscious and respectful. Also, we don't bite? You can just ask us to move down a table, or move a few yards away from your kid.

NOTHING out there excuses anyone from walking up to a smoker who isn't going out of their way to ruin YOUR day specifically, and saying "You take your fucking disgusting habit away from me, asshole. You make me sick."

Yet I see more people behaving rudely towards non-rude smokers (as if they're entitled to for some reason) than I do the other way around. This boggles my mind. Is it normal to find such repulsive behavior being shown to your fellow citizen so shocking and sad?

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70% Normal

Based on 40 votes (28 yes)

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Comments ( 37 )

LesserKnownCharacter

11 years ago

When I smoked I followed the rules and was considerate. I didn't always like it or agree with the rules but I obeyed.

What bothered me a lot was the people who go way overboard, like when you're outdoors, away from crowds and entrances, and they act like walking anywhere near your smoke is going to give them a disease.

These aren't people who are complaining about a condition they already have, they're going nuts thinking they're going to get cancer from the minute amount of smoke they MAY breathe in while passing by. Outdoors! All while cars are driving by spewing exhaust and they have a sack of McDonald's in hand. They treat smokers like shit and they're so damn angry and ignorant.

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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Nobody should have to deal with this sort of idiocy and rudeness. Not smoking doesn't put a person on a pedestal from where they can spit on people they think are "below" them.
  
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NeuroNeptunian

11 years ago

I work in Security and I'd say, as far as rudeness, I think you are talking about way too low of a number.

I worked in Security at a medical center and there is a rule here in California that you can't smoke within about 20 feet within an open door or window at a medical facility. There were plenty of signs all over the area clearly stating "No smoking within 20 feet". I still caught people smoking.

I would politely approach them and tell them "Hey, can you take that into the parking lot?", which is 20 feet away from the building. I'd either get a response of hostility "WELL CAN I SMOKE HERE...?" as they step away slowly, a response of jackassery "This isn't right, these laws are trampling my rights!", sometimes they'd put it out and grumble or they'd wait for me to walk away before going back to the open door and smoking near it again, they'd throw the cigarette in the trash WITHOUT putting it out prompting me to have to write a Fire Report and put the fire out... or they'd go into the parking lot, politely.

The rude responses were in such number that eventually, I stopped giving a shit, especially when I heard so many times "I didn't see the sign". They were right there. Right. There. That didn't stop me from being polite, but it did make me much more standoffish. I wasn't willing to listen to shit.

There is literally no way to distinguish a "polite" smoker from an asshole. Some of those assholes were very nicely dressed and drove nice cars, some of them looked like shit, some of them were somewhere in between. I have dealt with so much abrasiveness from smokers that I expect it. Smokers were the bane of my existence while working there. Some of them were cool, but usually, they tried almost to a stupid extent to smoke wherever the hell they wanted and had little regard for the rules of the building, especially in regards to cigarette butt disposal.

You will probably say that my experience doesn't justify my caution and my frustration with "all" smokers, no, it doesn't. However, I think you give the entirety of smokers way too much credit. At least my experience, from working both in low and high income areas, smokers can be very hostile, especially when they are trying to get their fix. People don't like being told what to do, especially when they know they shouldn't be doing it.

You'd be surprised how often people think they should be able to get away with breaking the rules. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but in my experience, both as a Security guard and as a person, people really don't like being told what to do.

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- LesserKnownCharacter
  
  11 years ago
  
  "I work in Security and I'd say, as far as rudeness, I think you are talking about way too low of a number."
  
  Your logic is faulty. Due to the nature of your security work, obviously you come in contact with a much higher percent of assholes/rule breakers, and you don't notice the ones who finished their smoke in their car or before they got too close as much or at all.
  
  I'm not saying it's right but rent-a-cops are not very respected at all, so maybe you get it worse just for that, too.
  
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  - NeuroNeptunian
    
    11 years ago
    
    I didn't say it was logical nor did I say it justifies anything. I don't think my being in security changes the fact that those people I dealt with were assholes though, and I think it would only say more about them that they disrespect ME because of what I do to pay the bills. A good, decent person (smoker) would not react to me due to my uniform anymore than I should act towards them due to the cigarette in their hand.
    
    My point was that with experiences like mine and anyone that must deal with smokers in public on a regular basis eg. People who have children that require special accommodation and the like, people that must regularly ask smokers for courtesy, it's difficult to see all smokers as angelic and be sweet and kind when they're puffing at you in public. Take a kid with asthma to a bus stop 5 days a week as many of my friends have and you'll see what I mean.
    
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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  I clearly stated that when a smoker is specifically rude and unresponsive to polite requests to adjust their smoking behavior, it is understandable to respond in kind. The entire point of the post is to say that this sort of aggressive, abrasive, and disrespectful behavior is unnecessary.
  
  Nothing at all about this observation is meant to be inclusive of smokers that behave like jackasses. That's pretty obviously not something worth defending. Nobody likes jackasses.
  
  I can understand that when a majority of your experiences with smokers has been negative, a defensive posture is taken when dealing with them in general. This is logical, and you don't strike me as someone that would go out of their way to specifically be rude to someone, but our experiences do influence our actions.
  
  A smoker who doesn't like being told what to do and who responds negatively may very well deserve a negative reaction. I'm not talking about these people.
  
  What I'm talking about is people who do nothing intentionally to aggravate others, who even go out of their way to be considerate, STILL get often frequent condemnation for their smoking. It's just absurd.
  
  The trend isn't just among smokers, either. It's considered "okay" to be rude to ANY smoker by a lot of people and I think that's wrong. I see this same "I have a free pass to be a dick" behavior directed towards things that are culturally unpopular:
  Smokers
  Pro-lifers
  Conservatives
  Military personnel
  
  I see a lot of REALLY GOOD people, people with good hearts and who show consideration and respect to their fellow human being that belong to these groups that just get lambasted by people that believe for some reason their "moral high ground" gives them the right to be jerks. I think this behavior is on par with the behavior shown by the worst examples of the demographic they are targeting with their hostility.
  
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  - NeuroNeptunian
    
    11 years ago
    
    I understand perfectly what you meant. My point was that with experiences like mine, and that of people who DO have children with asthma or the like who must ask smokers to show courtesy on a regular basis, sometimes it's difficult to assume that all smokers are as angelic as the "good smokers" you speak of.
    
    I understand what.you mean but from what I got in your article, you were mainly referring to smokers. I can do nothing but sympathize with your general statement as I am a Mormon and it's nothing but cool to shit talk Mormons in our country - I have known people who have never spoken to a Mormon in their lives talk like they're somehow theological experts.
    
    It's the mentality that "My views are the logical/informed views.thus I am right and you are wrong". In my experience, those that preach tolerance the loudest can be the least tolerant overall towards opposing or different views.
    
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    - Anonymous Post Author
      
      11 years ago
      
      It's not a pleasant situation to be in for anyone on any side of the spectrum, that's why I feel we should work hard to overcome these judgmental views and actions.
      
      It's just as hard for someone who is told by christians on a regular basis that they are sinful, evil, abominations who will burn in hell for all eternity for their disgusting perversions of God's will to view ANY christians (mormons included) as the so-called "angelic" christians some people speak of.
      
      The most we can do is treat our fellow human beings with dignity and respect, and be the better person by giving them the benefit of the doubt. I don't like being treated like dirt because I enjoy tobacco from time to time. I don't like to hear that you have been treated poorly for having personal beliefs that matter to you. To make it all stop, we have to pay it forward.
      
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      - NeuroNeptunian
        
        11 years ago
        
        So in other words, it's not cool to dis smokers on the premise that some of them are truly assholes about their habit despite many of them being polite but it's cool to dis Christians and Mormons because some of them are assholes about their religion, regardless of whether they are polite and respectful of others beliefs... interesting view.
        
        I understand what you're getting at regarding paying it forward but I don't think that you should be punished for the rudeness of other smokers any more than I should for the rudeness of other Christians. My only point was that when dealing with smokers on a regular basis, it's sometimes difficult to see the next one you'll deal with with a clean reputation, and the same logic can be applied to Christians too. None of that, however, justifies outward rudeness to the individual where none has yet to bet to be received... but I would say ot justifies caution.
        
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        Anonymous Post Author
        
        11 years ago
        
        Woah woah woah, please re-read everything that I've written in every comment here!
        
        NOWHERE have I ever said that I support, condone, or even suggest discrimination based on beliefs!!
        
        In fact the entire point is to prove that that is exactly the sort of behavior I'm attempting to discourage! ESPECIALLY against Christian groups!
        
        I'm speaking out against stereoptyping, against generalizing and against judging a person based on just a few experiences with people in their demographic. I mentioned what I did about Christians to show that they suffer this unfair, unjust and dehumanizing behavior as well. I did not say and most assuredly do not believe it is OK for anyone to treat you poorly for your religion. Unless you are angrily trying to FORCE them to bend to your ways you have done nothing to deserve that behavior. I believe the message was misinterpreted and I apologize for it not being clear.
        
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        NeuroNeptunian
        
        11 years ago
        
        Apologies for the typing. It is incredibly difficult to scroll and type on a touch screen.
        
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shade_ilmaendu

11 years ago

It's annoyed me too. I'm a smoker but I try to be very conceintious about it. Plenty of stores and resturants have benches or some little place for their employees to smoke so I generally stay there, and I'm paranoid as hell about keeping it away from kids.

My exes grandfather is on oxygen and he would always tell me I worried way too much about keeping it away from him.

There's no need to be rude. We're people just like you, and if you voice your concerns reasonably and respectfully I'll certainly do what I can to make sure no one is harmed. You don't need to call us bitches, you don't need to call us filthhy and you don't need to tell us we'll never have an SO.

I'm personally more concerned with what comes out of someone's mouth than what goes into it.

Well.... I might not kiss you if you ate poop... >.>

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VioletTrees

11 years ago

Oh shit, I just reread and saw that you compared people being rude to smokers to racism. NOPE.

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- shade_ilmaendu
  
  11 years ago
  
  It's the same train of logic, I'm sure OP wasn't trying to imply that one was just as bad as the other.
  
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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  You guys have really poor comprehension skills, if you are incapable of interpreting an example that displays the human behavior of relating a few bad experiences with a specific demographic to EVERY member of that demographic.
  
  You can sit there and say "NOPE" all you want, the behavior is the same. It's called stereotyping. It's what weak-minded individuals do and use as an excuse to discriminate and to treat other people poorly.
  
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LaMer

11 years ago

Being annoyed about something someone is choosing to do that physically hurts you is exactly the same thing as racism. You've cracked the code.

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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
  
  Stereotyping: A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
  
  Real accurate interpretation of concepts there, buddy.
  
  And last I checked, terrorism generally "physically hurts" people.
  
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  - VioletTrees
    
    11 years ago
    
    All smokers (or at least, all smokers who smoke in public) are doing something that physically hurts for people whom cigarette smoke causes pain, though, whereas the vast majority of people from the middle east have never participated in terrorism in any way.
    
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    - Anonymous Post Author
      
      11 years ago
      
      You can deflect to an admittedly imperfect example meant only to illustrate a concept all you want.
      
      My only point is:
      Don't be a disgustingly rude dick to every smoker you meet, especially preemptively.
      
      I don't agree with treating anyone this way. All targets inclusive. Overweight people, Christians, Conservatives, Liberals, Soldiers & Military Personnel, Pro-life advocates, people who are pro-gay rights but hold the personal opinion it's wrong, have ALL suffered injustice and dehumanizing behavior from people that believe they are BETTER than them because there are a few bad examples that lie within those groups.
      
      It's wrong, straight up. And the argument that ONLY smokers harm those around them does not stand up to people that take issue with the above examples. A pro-choice advocate may find it vastly more harmful to the human race to be pro-life. Also, the scientifically provable facts about the effects of second hand smoke are largely sensationalized and taken out of context. It is harmful, but not to the wildly extreme degree many aggressive non-smokers present it as.
      
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      - VioletTrees
        
        11 years ago
        
        I'm not talking about second hand smoke causing cancer or anything, I'm talking about people for whom it triggers migraines, asthma attacks, or seizures.
        
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        zohan
        
        11 years ago
        
        I have a lot of smoker friends
        I ain't rude to them
        I m just expressing my dislike for the smoke not the smoker
        
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        Anonymous Post Author
        
        11 years ago
        
        So let's see here:
        The only study linking cigarette smoke with migraines gained statistical backing with "smoking more than 5 cigarettes a day can trigger migraines" (Journal of Headache and Pain)
        
        Asthma occurs in 7.5% of the population, of which I've found several studies showing that second-hand smoke exacerbates the condition in over half the sample size (3.75%) when "prolonged exposure" occurs. (EPA, American Academy of Allergy Asthma & Immunology, American Lung Association)
        
        There are no studies anywhere in any accredited scientific journal that link second-hand smoke to seizures. Given that olfactory triggers do exist and the theory it could be linked is not entirely unsound despite having zero conclusive studies, even for people directly smoking up to 2 packs a day (a HMS study in 2011 failed to find cigarette smoke a conclusive determinate)
        
        So let's be generous and say that we're dealing with a total of 3.5% of the population that will experience seizures and migraines from second-hand smoke (this is a very generous over-estimation, but I want to be fair in favor of those who may suffer) and we can bump the asthma sufferers up to say, 4.5% (significantly "over half") this brings us to a total of 8% of the population for him this is an issue.
        
        When "prolonged exposure" to second-hand smoke occurs. I'm not sure how it is possible to suffer "prolonged exposure" to second-hand smoke IF somebody is dealing with the smokers I'm referring to - the kind who are understanding and willing to accommodate non-smoker's needs - but nevertheless...
        
        If you're saying 8% of the population is completely justified in preemptively being aggressive, rude, and showing dehumanizing behavior to smokers BEFORE giving them a chance to snuff their cigs, despite the fact I largely disagree with such rude behavior I'll STILL accept this.
        
        I'm saying I see an awful lot more than 8% of the population behaving atrociously towards smokers with no provocation, and this is what bothers me.
        
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VioletTrees

11 years ago

It's worth mentioning, though, that sometimes people, even adults, really do need you to put out your cigarette. For some people, cigarette smoke can trigger migraines, asthma attacks, and other health problems, and moving down a table isn't enough. I wish they'd either make designated smoking areas that are easy to avoid, or at least make it so people know it's not ok to smoke right outside entrances to buildings and such.

I wonder how many of the people who are rude about it are people who it actually hurts. If you just don't like the smell, it's not ok to be an asshole about it (unless you have sensory issues), but I can't really blame people who it physically hurts for being rude.

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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  Again, IF you are dealing with someone that is consciously making an effort to inconvenience someone to whom it is a health concern, YES you are dealing with a jerk, and you're at liberty to respond in kind.
  
  People who make an effort to stick to designated smoking areas, to keep their distance from those who don't smoke, and who are generally polite and willing to change their behavior to accommodate non-smokers simply don't deserve this rampant hostility.
  
  They're a human being. Treat them like one. It's not that hard. The fact they smoke is NOT a free pass to show that you're a rude, petty, hostile individual.
  
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  - VioletTrees
    
    11 years ago
    
    See my response to LilyAmongTheThorns.
    
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- LilyAmongTheThorns
  
  11 years ago
  
  I don't think people should be rude first. Wouldn't it be worth it to ask politely to see if they'd move or put out their cigarette?
  
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  - zohan
    
    11 years ago
    
    if you ask someone to put out their cigratte some might obey some might refuse some might fight and some might insult u
    what will u do if he/she replies "are you my father/mother? or did u pay for the cigratte?
    
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    - LilyAmongTheThorns
      
      11 years ago
      
      Isn't that the whole point of the post? That smokers who aren't rude and who do acquiesce shouldn't be treated rudely?
      
      If someone did that they would be rude. I can understand being upset by that but they're not the sort of person the Q is about, I think.
      
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  - VioletTrees
    
    11 years ago
    
    I didn't say that people SHOULD be rude, just that it's understandable. Sometimes, when people are in pain, they're rude. I get that.
    
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    - LilyAmongTheThorns
      
      11 years ago
      
      Yeah it can be hard sometimes to stay positive and be polite when we're bothered by things. I think the OP has a point in that people should try to be nice, but I understand that it could be difficult when someone is suffering.
      
      Mostly I think people should just try to be more kind to others, whether it's about smoking, not smoking, or anything else.
      
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Terence_the_viking

11 years ago

It's the same as labelling every muslim as a terrorist.

Pure and blatant ignorant people.

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q25t

11 years ago

In my experience, a lot of smokers seem to be more abrasive than the average folk but maybe that's just because they're the only ones that are noticeable.

OP, you gave me something to think about and so I thank you as I just attested that I am "bored as hell" five minutes ago.

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dom180

11 years ago

I think you need to accept that when you smoke near people, there is a high chance they will not like it and will see it as rude. They will say that whether you are meaning to be rude or are being rude accidentally is not relevant.

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kelili

11 years ago

I completely agree with you OP. A user here after knowing that I am a smoker questionned my former opinions on other posts. What does this have to do with it?

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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  People like to use not smoking as some sort of pseudo-moral high horse to treat those that smoke as "less than human". As if discrimination and aggression ever accomplished anything.
  
  I wouldn't sweat it. Somebody who tears you down does so to build themselves up, but it's an empty practice.
  
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Are You Normal?

Is it normal to be awe-struck by socially-accepted rudeness?