Is it normal, my issues with mra's?

I'm a female who is aware of and actually involved in men's rights but I think a majority of MRA's are doing more harm than good.

My issues with MRA's:

-twisting statistics. This is harmful because, while there may be some truth in some statistics, twisting the facts makes you look ignorant, unreliable (causing a shift from focusing on the actual problems men face and reducing it to just destroying your argument), alienating others from becoming involved, causing men to "give up" out of fear (especially true with fighting for custody of children...MRA's paint a false picture that courts are unfairly biased and men don't stand a chance, so "don't even bother, bro")

-turning issues into contests like "more men are raped than women" or that men and women are equal in domestic violence. Sure, males face these issues but it's so obviously not on the same level as women. Trying to say it is is just idiotic and petty and in my opinion...NOT the way to bring awareness to the issues.

-the prevalence of misogyny...you can go for men's rights without tearing down women at every turn.

-the high rate of complaining to a low number of actual, productive solutions

-a lot of spiteful reactions. It's clear that many of these MRA's are not looking for good solutions but rather eye for an eye type of "justice". They're not out to help men, they're out to hurt women.

Please comment. But bear in mind, this is a discussion about MRA's and such...NOT about feminism. Responses about feminism's flaws are not relevant so stay on topic please!

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69% Normal
Based on 13 votes (9 yes)
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Comments ( 13 )
  • Tommythecat.

    Both men and women's rights groups twist facts like you wouldn't believe, fuck both.

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    • Johnnytherat

      just like faggot ass politicians.

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      • Tommythecat.

        That's right, they're pretty much the same thing

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  • Couman

    Yeah, those are all valid criticisms, although I'd point out that it's not just men's rights advocates who do those, or analogous things. They're all pretty common problems in political movements really.

    This only criticism I would argue with a little bit is the contest thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to leverage existing awareness of abuse against women to point out that men suffer from similar abuse. But it needs to be done tactfully, honestly and without implying the problems women face aren't also serious.

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    • I don't think MRAs think that women facing abuse is not serious, just that they have all the support they could get while men do not have the same, so trying to give them more support than they can get rather than taking the other half of victims seriously and helping them is a problem.

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  • There are biases against men in the case of custody over children, making an issue about it isn't as much of a "Don't even try, bro" as much as it is a "You can try, I wish you luck, but the likely case is that you'll fail, but we're trying to change that, bro" thing.

    "Domestic violence and rape".
    How so? I severely doubt you take part on MRA sites and more so just snoop around there. To suggest rape towards a male is less or abuse towards men is less is part of the problem because it is just as bad, if not worse, especially when it comes to domestic violence because there is very, very little help in comparison for them, so they are more likely to have nowhere to go for help and more likely to be trapped in that abusive situation.
    Also, recent studies have shown that women are more likely to be emotionally and physically abusive. The fact that you are saying it's on a lesser level than abuse towards women, for no reason other than "vagina" is why there is barely anything done to help men in these issues, so yes, stating the things the way they do is the way to bring awareness to the issue, what you suggest is what will keep it continuing the way it is. You have a very gynocentric view of things, how two can go through the same but women have it worse for some weird reason even when they are the minority.

    "Misogyny".
    I think this is partially due to feminists. MRAs hate feminists, and rightly so. The problem is that feminism has forced its representation over women even when women do not want them to, however they are the only ones doing it so it has stuck. So what I would assume has happened is that because feminism forced its representation over women, these people see women and feminism as mutually inclusive regardless of the fact it isn't, and so their hatred of feminism is extended on to women, which then feminists get to say "look! Musoginy!" Even when it is possible it was them that were the cause of it with their forced representation over women.

    "Complaining/solutions".
    You are aware of how every event they have held has been treated, right? Feminists breaking the law to prevent them and so on? The most MRAs can do at this stage is increase their numbers, which I believe they are doing pretty well, in a diverse way I may add. Groups that make change don't just happen, it takes time, so give it time.

    "Hurt women".
    How? Give examples. I see them saying that men should be given the same equal treatment as women while women be held to the same standards as men, so the eye for an eye part is partially true but in a way that lines up with equal treatment.

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    • More mothers have custody because the father doesn't want custody or doesn't even try for it, following that comes mutually agreed upon custody to the mother. Courts decide on contested custody in less than 10% of cases and the descision is based on what's best for the child.

      It's equally bad whenever anyone is raped or abused but MRA's falsely claim that "more" men are raped than women or are "more" abused than women and that is ludicrous. If the goal is to help the men who are violated then HELP them. Don't falsify statistics and make asses of yourselves and forget about the men you are supposed to be helping.

      I say misogyny because as a woman I often feel greatly offended by the attitudes displayed by average MRA's. I'm not a feminist, feminism has had almost no effect on my mindset, I genuinely feel offended.

      Yes, I see a ton of complaining and almost NO viable solutions offered.

      My interest in men's rights is real. I got involved via my introduction to the US prison system. I saw problems men face. I have now committed my life to prison reform and helping disadvantaged men. No, I do not identify as a MRA. I am in general studies now becaise I am unsure what exact concentration I'd like to focus on. I've considered law-nope. Medicine, posdibly. Maybe something in admin. I volunteer. I just applied for a part time job in food service at the local jail. I'm not a do-nothing. My life is and will be forever dedicated to corrections reform and getting men out of this quagmire of a penal system.

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      • Hurt women....some simple examples are complaining about conscription and wanting women to be conscriped too instead of abolishing the practise entirely. Complaining about incarceration rates for males and instead of focusing on getting men out of prison, it's getting more women in prison for longer. No, no, no. Let's HELP men, and people in general, to stay out of compulsory service and stay out of prison. Not book more people in! It's spite driven, not helpful!

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        • When I hav heard of that point come up it has always been that men should be relieved from being able to be conscripted or women should be able to be, too, not simply that women should be, too.

          Yes, women gaining lighter prison sentencing for the same crimes men commit is a thing and they should be made to face the same sentencing. You can focus on both, you know, and making women be sentenced appropriately is a case of making the genders equal.

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      • "Doesn't want custody or doesn't even try".
        Well, firstly, what do you base that most fathers in these scenarios do not want custody or shared custody?
        Also, are you aware of how much going through the court system is for fathers trying to gain custody of their children? It ruins lives, so much so that the fathers don't even have enough to fight the battle.

        "The decision is based on what is best for the child". Right, and due to the bias in favor of women in these cases, they elieve that the child is best in the care of the mother, even if she has no money for the child and has to collect child support.

        "It's equally bad whenever anyone is raped or abused but MRA's falsely claim that "more" men are raped than women or are "more" abused than women and that is ludicrous."
        Actually, that is correct. When defining rape in terms of things like "forced to penetrate" and prison rape, men do make the majority of rape victims.

        Men more raped than women:
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html

        Women more likely to be abusive than men:
        http://www.medicaldaily.com/domestic-violence-against-men-women-more-likely-be-intimate-terrorists-controlling-behavior-290662

        Why is it "ludicrous" that women abuse men more in relationships and so on? What drives you to that idea? I am going to assume a sexist mentality of "women are victims, men are perpetrators", part of the reason "WHY" nothing gets done for male victims.

        It's not falsifying statistics, it's bringing facts to the table. Just because it doesn't agree with your world view does not make them false.

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        • http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats18.htm


          How is child custody decided? 51% agreed on their own 29% settled without third party involvement 11% decided during mediation 5% resolved differences after a custody evaluation 4% went to trial (of the 4% that initiated litigation, only 1.5% actually completed it)

          http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1617115/

          Yes, I'm familiar with that steaming pile of shit Daily Mail article. I'm also familiar with the study it warps and perverts beyond recognition. I'd suggest you read the study and intelligent interpretations instead of quoting a horrendously written shock piece from the Daily Fail.

          Domestic/family violence is a complex issue and can't be summed up in one article or study. However, no amount of research or information proves that males experience more consistent, pervasive and extreme violence as women do. Men do not need as much services as women do. Shelters are for refuge for those who have no alternatives or fear physically for their lives in the immediate. Most male victims do not need shelter but rather need legal aid. You're trying to apply female-typical help to males who do not want or need that sort of help. Male victims commonly need help evicting an abusive partner and establishing a record of abuse rather than shelter from abuse.

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          • What exactly does that prove? That doesn't refute that the ones that do want custody face a bias against them...

            "However, no amount of research or information proves that males experience more consistent, pervasive and extreme violence as women do."

            Actually, there is. Given that men make the majority of violent crime victims in general, including homicide victims.

            "Men do not need as much service as women do". Says who? They face the same amount of abuse, if not more, have less spaces to go, less help against their aggressor, and so on.

            Your point here is "When women are abused they need sheltered from it, when men are abused they don't".

            You've got a very sexist mindset about you. You believe women should gain more help against abuse rather than an equal one even if they are the minority of victims, you also just throw out that men being abused to the same extent or more is false simply because "Vagina".

            You're part of why the MRM is relevant, you do know that, right?

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            • It appears you have misunderstood my whole post and did not read the link explaining how custody happens.

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