Ask Your Question today
Some woman referred to black people on the beach as looking like a bunch of baboons. She was fined $1000 for this.
What's your opinion on this?
| this is good | 24 | |
| this is unfair | 17 | |
| they do look like baboons | 14 | |
| what if a black person said it? | 14 |
She deserves penalty, although I do feel $1000 is a bit too high, but she has no right to judge people who have nothing to do with her and cannot under any circumstances insult them.
Fine the shit out of her. Garnish her wages for the rest of her stupid life.
That's ridiculous, what happened to freedom of speech?
I'm not saying her remark wasn't rude and inappropriate but she still has every right to say it. Unless your words are intended to bring about physical harm to someone, like yelling fire in a theater, or repeated harassing, or personally slandering someone's reputation than you should be able to speak your mind freely.
Freedom of speech is a term that has been used historically to speak up against oppression, not a term that is used to justify calling people whatever you want. But to you if its still a freedom of speech, its my freedom of speech to call you a bastard and a son of a bitch!!!
People are punished for physical abuse so why should it be different for racially charged verbal abuse
Life isn't fair but I don't believe this is real. Post a link to a news source confirming the story.
whats not fare? If a man called you a bitch and he was fined you will be all so happy, but if a woman calls a man something and is penalized, its not fare? So much for Susan BA wanting equal punishment as men. You modern feminists who demand equality only want all the good things a man enjoys, but it gets unfair when you have to suffer what a man suffers, hypocrite!
You dont go calling fake and wanting links of women complaining about men using racial or hate speeches do you, you just go whining that those men deservs penalty even if those stories arent true. although the op cant post links, I can, I looked it up and here it is and this is 100% true:
http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/woman-fined-10000-for-calling-blacks-monkeys/
http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfrica/News/penny-sparrow-back-in-court-20160720
what's your point? As long as you don't hurt anyone you can be as racist as you want.
I'm not saying its good to be racist but it is her right to be if she so chooses.
When you start regulating what people can think and say you start heading down a slippery slope of totalitarian control
Either we have freedom of speech, or we don't.
There's no such thing as freedom of speech (except hate speech). That's not freedom of speech.
Threats of violence, or inciting violence don't need to be protected, I can understand that because it involves potential physical actions. But speech, verbal communication, should not be outlawed in any form. It's just such a fundamental liberty, that it's far better to take the good with the bad, suck it up and accept that you're not going to like everything everyone has to say.
But it's being eroded away.
So it's unfair and unless she was threatening or inciting violence, it really doesn't matter what she said.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean you're free from all consequence.
"unless she was threatening or inciting violence"
Not true at all. What about slander, libel, contractual agreements, obscenity, etc?
The OP never gave a source, context or anything rendering it impossible to say if this is fair or not. What if she signed a contract allowing for this fine? What if the law allows for it?
Shut your narrow minded rant. If so bothered why dont you look it up yourself like I did? Speaking of circumstances, what if it does no harm in some countries if some one post obscene pictures of "you" without your permission, that doesnt give tme them the right to do it, and you can seek international help. In that country it is definitely punishable, and she is not some special princess that prosecutors will waste their time bending rules for her.
If a man called you a bitch and he was fined you will be all so happy, but if a woman calls a man something and is penalized, its not fare? So much for Susan BA wanting equal punishment as men. You modern feminists who demand equality only want all the good things a man enjoys, but it gets unfair when you have to suffer what a man suffers, hypocrite! NO ONE HAS ANY RIGHT TO INSULT ANYONE THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM!
You dont go calling fake and wanting links of women complaining about men using racial or hate speeches do you, you just go whining that those men deservs penalty even if those stories arent true. although the op cant post links, I can, I looked it up and here it is and this is 100% true:
http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/woman-fined-10000-for-calling-blacks-monkeys/
Actually, I'm not going to comment on defamation, I just don't know enough about it.
But for this example at least, offensive "hate speech" is probably the best description, so I don't think it falls into that category.
I'm just curious if you think all offensive speech should be banned, or just racially-based speech? Who decides what's offensive and what's not?
Would you feel differently if this was a black woman at the beach calling white people crackers or honkies?
"I'm just curious if you think all offensive speech should be banned, or just racially-based speech?"
Uh, neither? I don't have a problem with hate speech.
Slander/libel is not a crime per se, it is a tort and the remedy is a civil suit. I support that.
I support exceptions for obscenity. Obscenity when referred to in this context generally means that you can't use a 'free speech' defense for illegal pornography (like child porn), sexual harrassment at work, etc. It doesn't mean making a simple lewd comment.
I support the right to enter into contracts limiting your 'free speech'. Examples... employment contracts and non-disclosure agreements. And if you break the contract, it's completely fair for the injured party to penalize you as allowed in the contract.
Since the OP finally gave a source, now we know this happened in South Africa. Apparently hate speech is a crime there. Since what she did was against the law, fining her was 'fair' in the sense that it is the legal consequence for what she did. Is the law itself fair? From my American perspective, I'd say no. But I don't know much at all about South Africa...it's entirely possible that there is sound reason behind the law as racism is a huge problem there. I just don't know enough about it to say.
Ah ok, I jumped the gun there, I'm sorry.
I just mentioned inciting violence because it was the only exception I could think of that seemed like it could possibly apply in this case. I didn't mean that it was the only exception, full-stop.
But my feeling is also that the law is unfair in this case. In fact I'd go further, I don't think there is ever a sound reason for a law that results in an outcome like this, even in a place as complicated as SA. Just an opinion.
"Freedom of speech doesn't mean you're free from all consequence".
- If the consequence is legal punishment, then it is NOT freedom of speech.
So, actually, YES it does. Freedom of speech DOES mean you are free from legal consequences. Not all consequences, though (eg. you use racist slang and your friends disown you).
But in this case the consequence was legal.
Slander, libel, obscenity - again, in practice they all hinder free speech. IMO.
I think that if the fine was given just because she called them a name, that is an unfair fine and it is probably unlawful. She can probably contest that charge in court.
However, if she said that comment out of rage or anger and was possibly threatening people in any way (verbal or physical) or if she was causing a public disturbance... OR if the beach was on private property of some sort where they had a specific rule about that, then I could see how the fine would be lawful.
I feel like if this is a true story, there are probably details being left out. People say the n word in public all the time and don't get fined. She also could have been fined for a completely different reason, such as littering and perhaps because of her comments, the police chose to give her the fine instead of a warning.
She posted a pic on her Facebook and added the baboon caption to it. She is also (or was) a high court judge
In that case I don't think she should have been fined, as to my knowledge it's not illegal to be racist. But I don't think it's acceptable bahaviour for a judge who should treat all people as equal.
So if it was my call: No fine but no more job either.
OK, I read your link and she is not a judge. The judge that was mentioned was someone else entirely...
"White senior judge Mabel Jansen was publicly criticized over comments she made last month about black culture and rape."
The articles are saying the woman you're talking about is a realtor.
So does sexism. So if its alright for that woman to call innocent blacks who had nothing to do with her "baboons", I am calling you a "bitchy daughter of a bitch", this is my freedom of speech!
I really am not a sexist and highly respect women. But being black myself, I completely sympathize with those black people and want to teach people who insults us with racial slurs to know how it feels to be insulted themselves. Not only by referring black people as baboons did she only insult black men, but she insulted black women too, and she had no right to do it. So please before sympathizing with insulters learn how it feels to be insulted yourself!
Funny she got fined, but the student leader who wanted all whites to be killed is okay.
Depends whether the offending phrase was levied as an insult towards the black people or said in private to someone else.
If it was the latter, then fining her would be a violation of the right to free-speech. If it was the former, I have no sympathy and say she deserved the fine.
Fined by the country's government. I saw now that I missed a zero. It was actually $10,000
What country? Under what law or provision?
You can't ask if something is fair or not without giving ANY details. For instance, if she's under contract allowing for this as a consequence for certain actions on her part then of course it is fair. But if laws or rules are being bent or applied diffetently than normal just to punish her then perhaps it's not fair. The circumstances/context matter greatly.
Yeah, I read the links. It's not the individual, it's the law in South Africa. What happened to her is fair in the sense that that is the law there. You perhaps should be asking if the SA law is fair, not if what happened to an individual who broke the law is fair. You posed this vague question to people who for the most part live in countries that recognize free speech...you went about it wrong unless your intent was to troll and/or find the idiots who would blindly agree without further details.
http://m.news24.com/news24/SouthAfrica/News/penny-sparrow-back-in-court-20160720