Is it normal to think we should stop labelling oral and manual sex as foreplay?

32 Comments

I am curious how many people are inclined to agree with the idea in the title of this poll.
My suggestion is that it does not make much sense to perceive oral sex (blowjobs or cunnilingus) and manual sex (handjobs and fingering) as a part of foreplay.

Reasons for my suggestions might include the following points:

1.The role of oral sex in gay and lesbian sexuality.

2.The fact that many men pay for blowjobs to prostitutes and they do not want to have other sex acts with them. It seems to me that it would be ridiculous to say that they pay for foreplay and that prostitutes who offer only oral should be called foreplay workers instead of sex workers.

3.In many cases, e.g. real life sexual scenarios of some couples or in porn, fantasies etc..., it happens that the man prefers to ejaculate after penile vaginal intercourse, for example he likes to have his orgasms during blowjobs or handjobs done by his partner AFTER sexual intercourse.

4.In addition to this, it might happen that after the intercourse the woman wants to have her orgasms via oral or manual stimulation of her genitals AFTER penile vaginal intercourse for different reasons and it seems illogical to say that she or he (cases of men mentioned above in 3.) wants to have orgasms during foreplay when it is clearly done AFTER penile vaginal intercourse.

5.Some people say that men do not like foreplay but the same people might think that men love blowjobs. If oral sex is a foreplay, then we have a contradiction here.

MY QUESTION IS: Do you agree that oral and manual sex should not be viewed as foreplay but as sex, egually sexual as penile vaginal penetrative intercourse?

All your thoughts and comments will be highly appreciated.

I am male and I agree with you	12
I am male and I disagree with you	4
I am male and I don´t know what you are talking about	1
I am female and I agree with you	3
I am female and I disagree with you	3
I am female and I don´t know what you are talking about	2

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Comments ( 32 )

Naamah

11 years ago

I agree with you. I perceive oral and manual stimulation of genitals as SEX and it seems a kind of demeaning to me to call them a foreplay.
I think that viewing these sexual activities either as a foreplay or as sex says a lot about one´s attitude to them, about the level of sexual enjoyment one gets from them and about the place they have in one´s sex life. If someone calls these activities a foreplay it just means that they have little value for the person and that the person can´t enjoy them as much as a person who gives them a (higher) status of sex. I mean - it would be a nonsense to call these sexual activities a foreplay if you love to do them not only beFORE intercourse, but also after it, instead of it or as an "in-between" activity when changing sex positions. This kind of sexual enjoyment of these activities and the label "foreplay" for them are mutually exclusive. For example, I can´t imagine not wanting to feel my partner´s orgasm in my mouth when he ejaculates when I truly love blowjob. Obviously, this isn´t done as a foreplay... It is sex! Of course, if someone "loves" blowjob or cunnilingus - meaning a few licks here and there and that´s all or manual stimulation - meaning a few touches here and there never leading to orgasm, in that case, it makes sense that oral or manual sex is a mere foreplay for such a person.

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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  Thanks for commenting. So far, you are the only woman on this site (or on the Earth?:) who considers oral sex to be sex (I suppose that the only vote in the category "female - I agree" is your vote). It is possible that so far you are the only woman on this site who has ever experienced oral SEX, other women might have experienced oral foreplay but nor oral sex.
  :)
  
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nightmare28

11 years ago

Am I the only one who thinks about Clerks when I read this post?

Dante Hicks: You said you only had sex with three different guys; you never mentioned him!
Veronica Loughran: Because I never HAD sex with him.
Dante Hicks: You sucked his dick!
Veronica Loughran: We went out a few times. We never had sex but we fooled around.
Dante Hicks: Oh my God, WHY did you tell me you only had sex with three different guys?
Veronica Loughran: Because I DID only have sex with three different guys; that doesn't mean I didn't just go with people.
Dante Hicks: Oh my God, I feel so nauseous!
Veronica Loughran: I'm sorry, Dante, I thought you understood!
Dante Hicks: I did understand! I understood that you had sex with three different guys and that's all you said!
Veronica Loughran: Please calm down.
Dante Hicks: How many?
Veronica Loughran: Dante...
Dante Hicks: How many dicks have you sucked?
Veronica Loughran: Let it go!
Dante Hicks: How many?
Veronica Loughran: All right, shut up a second and I'll tell you! Jesus! I didn't freak out like this when you told me how many girls you fucked!
Dante Hicks: This is different, this is important. How many?
[long pause as customer buys something]
Dante Hicks: Well?
Veronica Loughran: Something like... 36.
Dante Hicks: What? Something like 36?
Veronica Loughran: Lower your voice.
Dante Hicks: Wait, what is that anyway, something like 36? Does that INCLUDE me?
Veronica Loughran: Ummm... 37.
Dante Hicks: I'm 37?

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- shade_ilmaendu
  
  11 years ago
  
  "MY GIRLFRIEND SUCKED 37 DICKS!!!"
  
  "In a row???"
  
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charli.m

11 years ago

I have never heard anyone refer to them as 'only' foreplay. 'A part of' seems an accurate term, it doesn't indicate that they must exclusively be foreplay only.

I think you're overthinking this, dude.

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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  Thanks for commenting. I might be overthinking it. Another reason for me thinking about it and for my dislike of the term foreplay when referring to oral or manual sex is that I probably have a different sexuality from majority of people - in my case (I don´t know whether it is "deviant" or not) I prefer having my orgasms during blowjobs or handjobs, for example having a blowjob or a handjob only (no intercourse after that), so in my case it does not come beFORE anything, it is the main thing for me, or I also like my orgasms after intercourse during blowjobs or handjobs and again nothing follows after that, so it does not come beFORE anything. I like intercourse as well, but then there is no need for me to be stimulated orally or manually before it.
  It doesn´t mean that I do not care about the satisfaction of my partner, she usually has multiple orgasms before my orgasm, it is just my preference for the place of oral sex or manual sex, in my ideal scenario it would be the main course and not followed by anything, that´s why I have never seen it as a foreplay. But this is just my specific sexual taste, majority of people probably use the term in accordance with their sexual preference - first dinner, then soft music, then kissing or massage or oral sex or other preparatory activities and then let´s have the real sex. This is just not my case, so it is logical that my language would be different from theirs when it comes to labelling oral or manual sex.
  
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ccjigsaw

11 years ago

Sex is sex. Men on men can have anal sex. That's sex. Men and women, can have anal/vaginal. That's sex. No idea what my views on lesbian play is... Giving a blow job is a sexual act: but not sex. Giving a hand job, is a sexual act: but is not sex. Both hand jobs and blow jobs can be used as foreplay, or as a pleaser to your parter, but is not strictly considered foeplay. There you have it.

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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  Just one more question: If I am asked a question in a survey "How many sex partners have you had in your life?" should I count only women with whom I had penile vaginal intercourse or should I count also women with whom I hand ONLY blowjobs plus cunnilingus plus 69 plus handjobs but no vaginal (penis in vagina) intercourse?
  It seems that the way people use these terms indicates that women with whom I had only oral sex were not my SEX partners. That may be one source of confusion when they publish different sexological studies about the number of sex partners - some people may count their "only oral sex partners" others may not...and then the experts may wonder why there are some inconsistencies in the results...
  
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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  Then, oral sex is not sex...
  
  From my perspective, oral sex is sex as well as anal sex. Mouth and anus are both orifices which are part of digestive system, and when they are used for sexual purposes, I personally would call such acts "sex" at the same level of the meaning of "sex". But it is just my personal perspective, moreover, I am not a native English speaker, so maybe in English language it sounds counterintuitive to call oral sex "sex". One part of my motivation to ask this question in my poll was also connected with my "linguistic curiosity", I was interested in the way people use the word "sex".
  Thanks for your comment, it was helpful in my effort to understand how people perceive the terms in guestion.
  
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  - Anonymous Post Author
    
    11 years ago
    
    Just one more question: If I am asked a question in a survey "How many sex partners have you had in your life?" should I count only women with whom I had penile vaginal intercourse or should I count also women with whom I hand ONLY blowjobs plus cunnilingus plus 69 plus handjobs but no vaginal (penis in vagina) intercourse?
    It seems that the way people use these terms indicates that women with whom I had only oral sex were not my SEX partners. That may be one source of confusion when they publish different sexological studies about the number of sex partners - some people may count their "only oral sex partners" others may not...and then the experts may wonder why there are some inconsistencies in the results...
    
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    - ccjigsaw
      
      11 years ago
      
      They want to know how many people you have had Penile/vaginal or penile/anal. The question is usually asked for STD and health purposes, so lesbian "rubbing together" would count in this sort of question to. Example: My gay friend went to the hospital and wanted to give blood. They asked in the survey if he was gay, and if he had had sex with a male partner. He answered yes to both of these and was denied the allowance to give blood!! Had he only given blow jobs or hand jobs he would have been allowed to because some of the most harmful retractable diseases and such are only through sex. Another example: My virgin female friend has given blowjobs and hand jobs, but has never had sex. She is still considered a virgin because she hasn't had "sex" meaning vaginal. Hope that was helpful :)
      
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      - Naamah
        
        11 years ago
        
        I don´t agree with you...
        1. Your information about STD transmission is not accurate. You CAN become infected by an STD through oral sex. There is still a possibility that you can become afflicted from numerous diseases like HIV/AIDS, gonorrhea, herpes, syphilis and chlamydia (it´s less likely but still possible).
        2. As for the question about the number of sex partners being usually asked for STD and health purposes - it is not true in many areas. For example, when I asked similar question in a sexological study, it had nothing to do with STDs. This is true for a lot of studies of human sexuality carried out by experts in the field of psychology. I´ve read hundreds of studies focused on people´s sexual experience and behavior and the question was rarely asked because of STDs.
        
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        ccjigsaw
        
        11 years ago
        
        That's fine with me if you don't agree. He asked my opinion. I work in the hospital, and when we ask how many sex partners you've had, we're asking how many people you've had sex with. Not blow jobs and other premiscuous things. I was answering from a health care professional point of view. Not sexual studies. No need to hop on the hate train and down vote my comment. We're all free to not think like you.
        
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      - Anonymous Post Author
        
        11 years ago
        
        What if your female friend has had anal sex and no vaginal sex? Would she still be considered a virgin? Please, do not forget that in your previous post you gave anal sex the status of sex. (She had only oral sex - oral sex is not sex - she is a virgin...it makes sense, now aplly it to anal sex: She had only anal sex - anal sex IS sex - she is a virgin).
        
        My view would be - she is a virgin if she did not have vaginal sex but she has had sex - anal sex or oral sex, it makes no difference in my perspective, I consider both of them to be sex, both of them are non-coital activities. I do not know why anal sex should be given the status of SEX and oral sex should not...
        
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        ccjigsaw
        
        11 years ago
        
        I suppose if she had anal sex she would be considered a virgin, yep. She has done so much stuff I really don't view her as much of a virgin, but by most biological standards, she is considered one. Not saying why I think this way, or that it even makes sense. I don't get it myself, but I thought any sort of opinion might help with your inquirys. I'm generally thinking along the lines of I dunno... Say your in highschool and this guy is going around saying he's not a virgin anymore cause he got a hand job yetserday..it just sounds a little stupid to me. I think it's just fine that you think it's sex however. Maybe I'm wrong, but we're all different. I wouldn't morry about it to much, everyone has their own thing.
        
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      - Naamah
        
        11 years ago
        
        I don´t agree with you...
        1. Your information about STD transmission is not accurate. You CAN become infected by an STD through oral sex. There is still a possibility that you can become afflicted from numerous diseases like HIV/AIDS, gonorrhea, herpes, syphilis and chlamydia.
        2. As for the question about the number of sex partners being usually asked for STD and health purposes - it is not true in many areas. I For example, when I asked similar question in a sexological study, it had nothing to do with STDs. This is true for alot of studies of human sexuality carried out by experts in the field of psychology. I´ve read hundreds of studies focused on people´s sexual experience and behavior and the question was rarely asked because of STDs.
        
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Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress

11 years ago

I disagree.

I personally think you're putting more emphasis on labels and less on individual tastes.

1, 3, 4, & 5 -
None of that has ANY bearing on what I do in bed with my boyfriend. I don't see why I - or anyone else - should have to start changing what we consider to be foreplay, just to "include" couples who aren't even involved in our own sexual relationships.

If they're not in my bed, why the hell do they get any say in what I label foreplay with my partner?

2: I'm not sure if prostitution counts on this. Really isn't that more of a payment plan where your fees are based on what services you want, and how long you take?

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- Naamah
  
  11 years ago
  
  I realize I may seem to be nagging when asking this but I am really not. I am just curious and can´t resist the temptation to ask. Of course, you don´t have to answer my questions.
  According to what you wrote, some of the points mentioned in the original post / poll question are not relevant when it comes to your sex life with your partner. I just wonder...
  1. If oral and manual stimulation are a foreplay for you, does it mean that you have never done blowjob or handjob to the point of your partner´s orgasm?
  2. If it happens that you don´t have your orgasm before the end of penile/vaginal intercourse, what do you do in such a situation?
  
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  - Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
    
    11 years ago
    
    why do you assume foreplay cannot include orgasms?
    
    perhaps there's the reason you're not understanding me. i still call it foreplay but i don't feel foreplay has to be release free.
    
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    - Naamah
      
      11 years ago
      
      Of course people may have an orgasm before penile/vaginal sex! But it has no relevance to my questions in my previous comment. The question No. 2 is explicitely focused only on the situation after penile/vaginal intercourse - specifically on the situation when you haven´t had an orgasm before your partner´s ejaculation - I mean when you didn´t have an orgasm neither during foreplay nor during intercourse. My question was - if this happens or has ever happened to you (no orgasm during foreplay, no orgasm during intercourse) - how do you (or did you) react?
      Question No. 1 was about blowjob or handjob to the point of orgasm. The point of this question is based on these assumptions:
      1. You consider blowjob and handjob to be a foreplay.
      2. If a man has an orgasm during blowjob and handjob in this stage he often can´t continue having intercourse immediately after his ejaculation. That is why blowjob and handjob to the point of the man´s orgasm can´t be usually done as a form of foreplay in many cases. I suppose that a typical situation is that
      - blowjob or handjob is done before intercourse without a man´s orgasm and ejaculation
      or
      - the guy has an orgasm during oral or manual stimulation and that is not followed by intercourse - meaning that in this case blowjob or handjob can´t be considered a FOREplay because nothing follows after that (the logic is this - FOREplay? BeFORE what?)
      My question No. 1 in my preevious comment was: "If oral and manual stimulation are a foreplay for you, does it mean that you have never done blowjob or handjob to the point of your partner´s orgasm?" Possible answers:
      a) no
      b) yes - the guy had an orgasm and ejaculated during blowjob or handjob but he was able to continue with intercourse immediately after that (so that you could consider BJ or HJ to be a foreplay)
      c) yes - the guy had an orgasm and ejaculated during blowjob or handjob and there was no intercourse immediately after that (meaning that the BJ or HJ was not a FOREplay)
      I hope that now you get what the questions in my previous comment were about...
      
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      - Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
        
        11 years ago
        
        1 yes i do consider it foreplay
        
        2 it's a moot point because mine doesn't. it works out pretty well actually cos i don't like gagging on semen anyway.
        
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- Anonymous Post Author
  
  11 years ago
  
  Thanks for your reply.
  Of course, nobody has the right to make you use different words for the things you do with your partner. I personally reserve the same right for me and nobody will get any say in what I label sex with my partner. For me, oral sex has always been sex. But I admit that I am in a small minority of people who use these terms in this way, so your view is definitely shared by more people than mine. Probably there is not any "right" or "wrong" way of using these terms, you are right that individual taste is more important than labels. To me, oral sex and manual sex are equally sexual as vaginal or anal sex, to other people they are foreplay or whatever...To me, foreplay is something that gets us in the mood for sex and when sexual organs are involved, then I would call it sex (oral, manual, vaginal, anal etc). But my dictionary is probably different from the way people use these terms.
  
  Just one question - if I am asked (in a survey) a question "how many sex partners have you had in your life?" should I count also women with whom I had only handjobs and blowjobs or should I count only women with whom I had penile vaginal intercourse?
  
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  - Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
    
    11 years ago
    
    That depends on what the survey is for.
    
    is it for an STD study, or just something generic?
    
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    - Anonymous Post Author
      
      11 years ago
      
      Let´s say that the study examines sexual behaviour of people of different age categories, so also general questions as well as questions about STDs, safe sex etc are included...
      By the way, isn´t it strange that I should answer the same question in different ways in two studies...? Nevermind, so how should I answer if I come across this question in:
      a) STD study
      b) some sexological study with more general approach (frequency of sex, sex drive, sexual behaviour, promiscuity...)
      c)in a study or questionnaire whose purpose is not explicit and clear
      
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      - Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
        
        11 years ago
        
        keep in mind though, that even if it's just foreplay, it doesn't mean it's not a sexual partner.
        
        but i do distinguish between just heavy petting, and foreplay and full sex, even if i list that person as a former partner
        
        std study - this is because an std study would be different. you'd be listing anyone you might have exchanged bodily fluids with since, be it foreplay, full sex, or whatever, you might have exchanged more than just orgasms with that person.
        
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        Anonymous Post Author
        
        11 years ago
        
        Isn´t it plausible to think that if XY is my SEX partner, then it follows that I have SEX with that partner? For example oral sex. Not oral foreplay.<BR><BR>Why isn´t oral sex full sex? That is the question... In case of oral sex, I exchange orgasms and also bodily fluids. In case of vaginal sex, I exchange the same things - orgasms and also bodily fluids.<BR><BR>So as far as I understand your point of view, in case of STD study, I should list also the women with whom I had only oral sex but in case of a general sexological study (monitoring my sexual behaviour, promiscuity, number of partners...without emphasising STDs) I should admit only those women in whose vaginas I inserted my penis and I should not include those with whom I had blowjobs, cunnilingus and 69 without my penis in their vagina? Does it make any sense?
        
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    - Anonymous Post Author
      
      11 years ago
      
      Let´s say that the study examines sexual behaviour of people of different age categories, so also general questions as well as questions about STDs, safe sex etc are included...
      By the way, isn´t it strange that I should answer the same question in different ways in two studies...? Nevermind, so how should I answer if I come across this question in:
      a) STD study
      b) some sexological study with more general approach (frequency of sex, sex drive, sexual behaviour, promiscuity...)
      c)in a study or questionnaire whose purpose is not explicit and clear
      
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Are You Normal?

Is it normal to think we should stop labelling oral and manual sex as foreplay?