Is it normal to be a girl and not see eye-to-eye with women's rights?

77% Normal
27 Comments

A fancy new women-only gym just opened in town next to school, and all the girls on campus are talking about it. I've only lived in Boston two years, but I remember back West when I was in high school a bunch of traditional men-only establishments being forced to either shut down or open their doors to women, who'd raised hell with local newspapers about sexism.

What gives? How come we girls can force guys to let us in wherever we want, but at the same time it's legal for us to exclude guys when it suits us? How is that about "rights"? That seems like discrimination to me, and I'm not even a dude. And why do you guys just LET it happen? Why don't you organize and point out the hypocrisy, and take legal action?

Voting Results
77% Normal
Based on 35 votes (27 yes)
Help us keep this site organized and clean. Thanks!
[ Report Post ]
Comments ( 27 )
  • [Old Memory]
    7 years ago

    Because doing so is sexist. Difficult times for men. Just a hiccup in population control.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    4
    4
      -
    • AB1234
      7 years ago

      What do you mean? Are you saying that men asserting their human rights when something discriminatorily benefits women specifically is "sexist"? And what's "population control" in this scenario?

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      -1
      -1
        -
      • [Old Memory]
        7 years ago

        I've read your comments. If you're for real and not trolling (and man do I hope so). You give me hope for returning to the dating game.

        Men's rights is a joke. Men have no rights anymore in this society. Even giving a whisper of a hint about being discriminated against is met with criticism or outright ridicule with such terms as "you just need to man up", or we're called a pussy. It's basically assumed in this society that men should be able to put up with anything. I don't mind paying for women, I don't mind sheltering/protecting a woman. I'd require the respect that goes along with doing that though.

        Doesn't seem like much to ask. Just like you said, the pendulum swung way too far the other way. You can attest to it, you said your #1 argument with other women is on this very subject. I'm sure those women you argue with still believe MORE needs to be done. You can see it on this website. I've made of plenty of stories (on other accounts) from both sides of the spectrum (discrimination of men and discrimination of women). The stories about women being discriminated against got at least double the comments, from clearly female account users, showing empathy or outright animosity towards what supposedly happened (all the stories were hypothetical, not real).

        Nothing on the male stories. Sometimes an affirmation of a need to "man up" or other such nonsense. It's no wonder men are fleeing from the idea of marriage in this day and age. It's an extremely risky prospect.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
        2
        2
          -
        • AB1234
          7 years ago

          I agree with you 100%. I see it every day on campus. And in movies. Girls hitting guys and feeling safe from consequences. I even saw on a trip to NYC last summer outside a nightclub this drunk girl scratching this dude who clearly wanted nothing to do with her. The cops show up and arrest HIM? WTF?

          And don't get me started on girls who assume because I'm a girl I'll automatically agree with them in a conflict with a guy. A girl cheats on her boyfriend? It's OK because "men have been doing it for centuries." And what about the online employment board ads that explicitly state "women only"? How the hell is that legal today? Or what about ladies' night? Girls get in free, and get free drinks just because it's assumed we'll bring in the guys. Where's the guys' night?

          And women always have an argument prepared to defend what's clearly prejudicial and discriminatory. It's as if many of us feel that just because historically some of us have been abused (and I'm not saying some women still aren't abused), it's impossible for US to do the abusing today.

          If I were a dude I'd be seriously sour on a lot of these women. But no, we're not all like that.

          Oh, you also touched on something else that gets me goin'. We girls can do ANYthing dudes can do, but when there's danger--the guy's supposed to risk his life protecting us. With none of the respect you alluded to earlier forthcoming. W...T...F???

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          0
          0
            -
          • wigz
            7 years ago

            Oh yeah...programs to get women drunk are totally there to benifit women. It's not that drawing women to a bar increases male attendance or that drunk women make poor decisions.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
            2
            2
          • [Old Memory]
            7 years ago

            I'm the same person (karmasucks), I have to use multiple accounts because of the stupid karma feature that restricts comments, this happens because I'm not "politically correct".

            Basically like this account says, it's crazy times out there. I live near where you mentioned you went last summer btw and it seems like in this immediate area it's even more ridiculous.

            You prove women aren't all like that and I'm glad to have chatted and commented on your story. Whomever gets to date you is a lucky person indeed as you have a rational head on your shoulders.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
            0
            0
              -
            • AB1234
              7 years ago

              Thanks!

              Comment Hidden ( show )
              0
              0
  • wigz
    7 years ago

    "a bunch of traditional men-only establishments being forced to either shut down or open their doors to women"

    Such as? And why was it wrong in your opinion?

    How is it wrong or unfair to have a woman-only gym? As long as there's another gym available that men can use, no one is put out by it (and FYI, female-only gyms have been forced to let males in if they are the only gym available in the area). Nobody is stopping anyone from opening a male-only gym. The only thing stopping that would be that there's not enough demand for it. Women want female-only gyms and there's enough of a demand for it to make it profitable, simple as that. Shit like this is only discrimination if the people excluded are genuinely harmed by its policy, that goes for either gender- no matter what kind of operation it is- and private clubs/organizations are typically exempt from anti-discrimination laws.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    2
    2
      -
    • [Old Memory]
      7 years ago

      Most men (if not all) wouldn't care at all if there was a woman's only gym in any given area. They almost certainly wouldn't organize a petition or protest it. The viewpoint would be whatever, who cares, let women have their gym.

      On the flip side women would almost certainly protest against men organizing something like a man's only gym, or anything for that matter. Country clubs are another example.

      I'm not saying YOU personally would do this, I'm just saying women on a whole would certainly have more of a problem with a "man's only" anything, than men would have in a "women's only" anything.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      2
      2
        -
      • wigz
        7 years ago

        Often what prompts such protests is that there's nothing comparable, or nothing at all, for women. As with country clubs...most, if not all, excluded women (some still do), and as women played golf more and more, and some of these courses are on the PGA tour...well, yeah, women wanted in. Similar with other things...there often just isn't an alternative for women. It's not always rabble rabble rabble what about teh wymyns! The exclusion is actually harmful in a lot of cases.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
        2
        2
          -
        • Another_one
          7 years ago

          Sorry to intrude and one up ya, but if women want equality to work....

          They could build their own alternative for themselves. DIY, so to type.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          0
          0
            -
          • wigz
            7 years ago

            I don't disagree with you but when you're talking about things that take huge investments of time and money and/or breaking into a well-established arena, it's not as simple as 'hey just make your own'. Like with country clubs...it's an enormous expense to start and maintain and some of these clubs are on the PGA tour, it's not like you can just waltz in and be on par with these established institutions. And that's how a lot of these protests start...the men have been established for a long time already and have a good foothold in the industry...or otherwise have no real obstacles to overcome...whereas women are just now breaking in and it's a lot harder.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
            2
            2
        • AB1234
          7 years ago

          How does one demonized inequality justify another? If a group is against discrimination, it ought to be opposed to discrimination across the board.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          0
          0
            -
          • wigz
            7 years ago

            Who's demonized and how? You still haven't provided any specific examples or sources.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
            1
            1
    • AB1234
      7 years ago

      You can do the Google search yourself. Yes, there'd be nothing wrong with a women-only gym IF the law allowed men-only gyms to exist. Many have tried (MN, WA, CA, IL, NY) and been shut down or forced to admit women on discrimination charges.

      No, it is NOT merely that a demand drives the existence of women-only gyms. There has been a demand for men-only spaces since the 70s, from what I've learned in class and found in case law briefs online.

      But your reference to my sincere question as "shit like this" tells me you're not open to a frank, mutually respectful discussion. So peace.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      -1
      -1
        -
      • wigz
        7 years ago

        You made the claim, you provide the proof.

        "Yes, there'd be nothing wrong with a women-only gym IF the law allowed men-only gyms to exist."

        Anywhere that allows one will allow the other as well.

        Businesses or places of 'public accomodation' have to abide by anti-discrimination laws. Private clubs do not. You can make a private club and exclude whoever you wish. Men-only clubs certainly do exist. So do whites-only and Jews-only, etc.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
        2
        2
          -
        • AB1234
          7 years ago

          I did provide the proof. I cut and pasted nine legal links across the USA over twenty years discussing the history and contemporary state of gender-discrimination laws and cases from Massachusetts (one of eight states where it's legal) to California (where it's not).

          I posted it as a comment here, and on returning the comment was gone. I'm not going to waste more of my time copying-and-pasting links and commenting on them as if this were a homework assignment. Anyone interested in reverse-gender-discrimination can easily find pertinent references to the case law and popular sentiment.

          If gender discrimination is wrong, and we women have argued this for at least a century, then our feelings and prejudgments shouldn't make it right because WE are benefited.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          0
          0
  • TRUMPTRAIN
    7 years ago

    Newsflash, men lost the gender war about 50 years ago and we have been getting royally screwed ever since. Its a womans world nowadays...

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    1
    1
      -
    • AB1234
      7 years ago

      Sadly, I agree with you. The pendulum has swung WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too far the other way. Why don't you guys fight back? I mean, you're half the population, and if something is discriminatory, why the hell would you all just take it?

      The number one source of arguments between me and other girls is all this reverse-gender-discrimination crap. Like it's an ungodly sin for a guy to even push a girl, but a girl can draw blood striking a guy with impunity. Or the way the courts almost always side with mothers over fathers. Or the way we girls get to decide whether we terminate or continue a pregnancy, despite the fact the child is half the father's. And if we decide to keep a child, even after tricking a guy to have a child he clearly never wanted, HE has to pay to support the child...

      I'm ashamed often to have 2 x-chromosomes, given the way women treat men.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      -1
      -1
        -
      • TRUMPTRAIN
        7 years ago

        We did fight back, but we lost and continue to lose as a gender. The Barack Obamas and Hillary Clintons of the world keep getting elected time and again.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
        1
        1
          -
        • AB1234
          7 years ago

          I want to make a comment on that but am scared to. I live in UBER liberal Cambridge, Mass where you can legally be lynched for not being liberal enough.

          But honestly, I hope you realize there are some women out here who think reverse sexism is an abomination. If girls find traditional sexism so hateful, then they're hypocrites to push agendas that hurt men specifically. Like how men earn more on average, statistically speaking, in large part because they hold really dangerous jobs women won't take. Or how despite the fact that most suicides are among men, and this related to stresses men in particular experience (gender roles & cultural expectations of males in a radically changed environment), talk about mental health usually centers around women.

          I think if I were a modern man, I'd be tempted to become a misogynist.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          -1
          -1
  • mysistersshadow
    7 years ago

    Just sounds like capitalism theres a demand and sone one met it. Big deal.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    -1
    -1
      -
    • AB1234
      7 years ago

      It is a big deal. If there were a demand (and there is) for all white clubs (that excluded people of other races), I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking there'd be a HUGE deal with that. Just because there's a demand for something, like drugs or cosmetics known to increase the incidence of chronic disease, it doesn't make it responsible or ethical or even fiscally sound to allow a company to fill the demand.

      So long as male establishments--like male-only gyms--are told it's unconstitutional (discriminatory) NOT to admit women, the same principle ought to apply to establishments for women, ones that prohibit admission to men.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
      0
      0
        -
      • mysistersshadow
        7 years ago

        I don't have a problem with male only or white only or any other only things so I guess we just have to disagree about it being a big deal unless you'd like to really open this can of worms and discuss restrooms... Would you like large everyone can use them at the same time restrooms? If its all good there really isn't any need for walls between the stalls is there?

        Comment Hidden ( show )
        -2
        -2
          -
        • AB1234
          7 years ago

          I have no problem with shared-gender restrooms. I won't penalize all people of a given group for the misconduct of a few. Not having walls comprising stalls is, I feel, different. That is an issue of privacy in very personal space, regardless of the genders of those around us.

          Yes, on this matter we'll agree to disagree. If it's wrong for men to exclude us based on discrimination charges, then it should be wrong for us to exclude them for the same reasons. If you're going to permit women to exclude men, then permit men to exclude women.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
          0
          0
            -
          • mysistersshadow
            7 years ago

            Hmmm... I thought I already said I didn't have a problem with men only things.

            I've been in mens restrooms that don't have stall walls if they can do it I think we all can.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
            -3
            -3
  • AB1234
    7 years ago

    Obviously this issue isn't new. Here's an exploratory article from nearly 20 years ago: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/26/us/lawyer-s-suit-challenges-women-only-gyms.html

    Running a so-called private business in a broad enough public setting can UNprotect private clubs from right-to-discriminate: http://www.nytimes.com/1999/11/30/sports/golf-golf-club-faces-steep-penalties-in-sex-bias-case.html?pagewanted=all

    Size, and selectivity matter in whether an organization can claim exemption from non-discrimination laws; first Amendment loop-hole: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124588111858449559

    Only eight states, it appears, allow sex-discrimination--notably passed into law after challenges to legality of one-gender organizations in the context of then existing anti-sex-discrimination laws. At least this is illegal throughout most of the USA: http://clubindustry.com/mag/fitness_access_denied

    Gender-discrimination is, thankfully, illegal in California (CA's Unruh Civil Rights Act states: “All persons within the jurisdiction of the state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, marital status or sexual orientation are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever.” :): http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2122372-181/body-central-found-in-violation

    Despite the legality of gender-discrimination in a few US states, at least in WA the law appears to be applied evenly, gender-wise: http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/article/So-far-women-only-gyms-are-allowed-by-the-courts-1133532.php

    Comment Hidden ( show )
    0
    0