Is it normal i sometimes feel ashamed to be an american?

(If I ever run for President this is really gonna bite me in the back).

I’ll admit, I enjoy being in America. There’s certainly far worse places in the world right now, but throughout history my country has done some pretty horrible shit. We started off genociding Native Americans, participated in the transatlantic slave trade which lead to centuries of slavery, and decades of Jim Crow era racism and segregation, the effects of which are still felt today. It wasn’t until the 1960s when we finally gave black people equal rights, and that seems like a long time ago, but in retrospect it really isn’t.

But it doesn’t stop there. Right after Pearl Harbor FDR put countless innocent Japanese Americans in internment camps. During WW2 we fought a totalitarian regime with ideas of a racial hierarchy, yet we had our own ideas of a racial hierarchy at home!

The Jim Crow Museum is a good place to look to see just how racist our country has been. On one hand, it would be somewhat reassuring to know that other places had similar racist attitudes (like the aforementioned Nazi germany, but to a lesser extent like us), since it would give me a sense of “see, we’re not the only ones!” But on the other hand it would just be sad that that happened at all.

Am I just an ignoramus? Is America really not as unique in these attitudes as I’ve been taught? Let me know your thoughts.

Voting Results
67% Normal
Based on 55 votes (37 yes)
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Comments ( 47 )
  • LloydAsher

    This is going to be a long post so stay with me on this.

    You have to be relative when it comes to history. Yes slavery was wrong but this was pre industrial times. Before the industrial revolution you didnt have the advantage of machining and fabricating large quantities of goods without the need for a large workforce. Slavery was the most efficent way to solve this problem, slavery was mostly normal throughout the world. As soon as the industrial revolution came around slavery would be too expensive to keep up and slavery would fall hard into disfavor for economic reasons not only the moral push to ban slavery. The racial divide that came for 100 years afterward was due to slowly humanizing the slave class. To own a slave you had to convince yourself that your slaves weren't actually people more of a really intelligent animal.

    The native Americans of the America's were screwed from the start when they came to America 5000 + years ago. America lacked large domesticatable animals such as oxen that allowed Europeans and asians to plow feilds much more efficiently by hand allowing farming to be a staple in life. Hunting and gathering was much more viable in north america while in south america slavery once again solved the problem of food production. The natives also didnt have the benefit of being near live animals thier entire lives bringing resistances to animal diseases. The Europeans lost a third of thier population to the black plague that was given to them by the mongols during thier grand conquest. Europeans with their trading with around the known world also granted them an extreme resistance to diseases such as small pox (yes it was a problem but not as bad as the native Americans) that's the reason why there wasnt some American only plague that killed off all the Europeans that landed. Europeans just had better resistances. Ironically enough this was also the reason why the african slave trade became such a popular source. There wasnt a good supply of native Americans to have a decent slave source unlike the African supply.

    The internment camps of ww2 was a good show of what paranoia comes from conflict in such racially diverse country like America. While it was a disagreeable concept now the internment camps served as both a defence from Japanese spies and the protection of the Japanese citizens away from the highly paranoid populace losing thier sons in the Pacific theater.

    All around no country can say they are truly pure. Since we humans are flawed due to our both extreme logic and our ability to not care about our fellow man. America is an oddity in the world. A centralized country that is inhabited by all races on the planet mostly without conflict. I do truly believe America may not be the perfect country but is by far the most perfect country history has ever currently manufactured.

    Lecture over, thanks for reading.

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    • LaughinSkull

      Excellent post. I think there are a lot of people who think like OP about America right now. It’s understandable, but it’s not like every other country doesn’t have their own baggage as well.

      As you pointed out, slavery was a staple to many countries before the industrial revolution. In fact, if you look at slave routes in the 1700-1800s, Peru imported the most slaves because it was cheaper to work them to death and simply buy new ones.

      The native Americans were also, as you pointed out, screwed. Spain committed atrocities against those in Mexico and South America similar to the English. The French were a little more friendly with the fur trade, but had they tried colonizing the continental US instead of selling to the Americans in the Louisiana purchase, I don’t see how any country would have let the natives keep all that land (could you really imagine natives still living as they did back then in 2010+)?

      Think of it in terms of your own analogy to Nazi Germany OP: what did the Germans (and the world for that matter) do at the end of World War II? They rebuilt the country and restructured Europe. Sure, Germany was split into two countries until about 1990, but the German people rebuilt their country and their heritage from the ground up and made it a better place. If you like America and her ideals, you can fight for those while still fighting against the parts of her history that are unacceptable to a modern civilized society.

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    • jethro

      Now that was the best response I have ever read on this or any other site. Good show.

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      • LloydAsher

        Well thank you for the complement. I dont get that often.

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  • Hm. I spent about 5 years in America, mainly Alaska, working with a buddy who exported salmon back home to Russia.
    I thought America was a very confusing country, everyone was incredibly different, but all obsessed over trying to find common ground.
    But you shouldn’t be ashamed to be American, you’re big, you’re powerful, you’re wealthy, and you’re loud. It’s just how you are.
    I’ve lived in Mongolia and China as well, also spending time in North Korea and Bhutan, but Russia is my home country. While I favor Russia, I think Americans are a-okay, and I love the people and city of Boston!

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  • I’m not ashamed but I’m also not racist. I don’t personally see America as some racist land or make it up what the past was like. Every place has flaws. Just some are real fucking stupid like those listed.

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    • LloydAsher

      It's only stupid now when you look at it from today's perspective. Humanity is quite logical if you from people's goals and outcomes.

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      • I guess when you put it that way.

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  • bogbrush

    Only be proud for of things you have personally achieved. I had nothing to do with being born English, it's just a fact. When I think of America I think of freedom, national pride and diversity. The way American's conducted themselves after 9/11 made me realise that it is 'home of the free and land of the brave'. I love you enthusiasm and drive. You fought for us without knowing us. I salute you.

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  • You are basically saying that America has a past to be ashamed of. I suppose I agree. We did some really bad things to get where we are.

    And so did every country that ever acquired any power or influence in the world. We all know about Germany causing two world wars and north Korean concentration camps but did you know that Belgium committed the genocide of possibly as many as 3 million Africans in the Congo? Ever heard of the Cambodian killing fields? Rwandan genocide? I have a friend who is an immigrant from Rwanda whose mother, father and sister were killed with machetes while he and his brother hid in a dried up well.

    I can go on to talk about the ongoing firing squads in china or how north Korean defectors to the south are treated poorly by rok citizens. Or maybe how Canada currently keeps its lucrative asbestos mining operations in full swing by selling the cancer causing stuff to third world countries. It's TRUE. Google it.

    For some reason however, it's the usa and only the usa who is judged for its past. I've heard british citizens condemn the us for slavery when they seem to forget that they are the ones who sold them to us.

    It seems to me that we will never pay our debt to society. The Turkish had one if the most powerful empires in history and used very inhumane tactics and policies to reach such a height. Is anyone asking turkey to feel ashamed for its former crimes? No, I've never heard anyone suggest this. But Americans should be ashamed.

    I wonder.. if america were to pay for the crimes of the past, would it not be expected by the world to humble itself to complete negation?

    Basically what I'm saying is why are we the only ones expected to feel shame when we did no worse than what many other countries have done?

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    • Hubbard

      Good points

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  • I think it's shameful that your government would rather pump billions of dollars into useless wars, space programs, and political campaigns than give its citizens free health care.

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    • LloydAsher

      I mean war does spur on technological advancement. That's why Europe quickly outpaced Asia technologically in the 1500s. During those times even a small improvement granted an advantage.

      Though I do have some dreams of constructing a biodegradable landmine that lasts for 1-3 months before degrading into harmless bits of dirt. Would really solve some problems when we forget where we plant them during war.

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  • SwickDinging

    I think it's normal for you to feel ashamed in the sense that I think a lot of Americans do, but that doesn't mean that you should. Every country has it's good and bad bits, and it's not as if you personally are responsible for any of the big stuff. You can't help where you were born.

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  • Mrown

    I feel like America is the most advanced country in most if not all fields. So no, I don't think you're right to be ashamed, all countries have a shady past.

    If you don't like being American then I don't think you'd like being from anywhere else, it's probably the best place to be born in the entire world but of course, it doesn't mean it's perfect.

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    • LloydAsher

      If you take out heart disease and car crashes out of the deaths per year equation, America has one of the highest life expectancy of any country.

      Primary reason for heart disease is more in line for America not restricting what you can or cant consume (except for drugs). If you want to eat garbage balloon up to 400lbs and die when you are 36 you can do that in America.

      Car crashes just lower the life expectancy quite a bit just because America is a large ass country with a lot of cars. Americans need to drive everywhere because America itself is too sparse to have an affordable railway system across the whole country... unless you turn it privatized then you can expect some improvements. (Looking at you Amtrak)

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      • Hubbard

        This is why driving scares me so much

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        • LloydAsher

          I'm only scared of driving in California they just suck at driving in clear conditions with no weather. I'm from Wisconsin where the roads are icy, wet and you have the occasional drunk. Somehow it's actually easier!!

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  • LordeBroxa

    Be happy to be American because it's better than being Brazilian.

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  • Doesnormalmatter

    I get what your saying but I don't care. I don't see it as my issue what our country has done in the past. I'm my own man who happened to be born here and prefer not to think about such things. What can you really acomplish by thinking about this? Are you gonna leave just because of what we did in WWII or what?

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  • pleasurehunter67

    Please feel free to pack and leave at anytime...I here Somalia is nice this time of year.

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  • RuiAndrRivers

    When your country is represented by people like trump and is considered to have people whose knowledge is lacking then yes. However it means nothing to who you are. The country you were born in doesn't define you as a person.

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  • JellyBeanBandit

    You didn't do any of that stuff. Be proud/ashamed for the stuff you've done, not for what other people who were born in the same piece of land have done.

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  • Boogienights

    Americans generally seem to think that they live in the best country on earth but there is so much about it that is fucked up and from the outside people are thinking thank god I dont live there. Theyre brainwashed since birth to be flag waving jingoistic minions. There are so many better countries to live.

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    • LloydAsher

      Were you raised in China to think that?

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      • Boogienights

        Anyone outside the USA can see that.

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  • dimwitted

    On the whole America isn't that bad compared to other countries. However it holds itself to a higher standard. It used to be the country that other countries aspired to be. I think that has drastically fallen.

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    • GaelicPotato

      It's a shithole now.

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    • LloydAsher

      How so? Explain in more than thirty words.

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      • dimwitted

        There's no reason to justify or argue my statement. It's obvious from your novella that you have very defined opinions of America. You will continue to justify every atrocity this country commits. "Most perfect country"...that was guffaw worthy.

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        • LloydAsher

          What has drastically fallen in its values though? America as far as I've observed hasn't dampened on its care given to other countries. The Resource wars in the middle east served multiple purposes not just for the oil but for longer term thinking... though that seemed to have failed in hindsight. A superpower such as America needs to flex the big stick every so often to keep up worldish peace.

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          • Boogienights

            Dampened on its care to its own.

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            • LloydAsher

              That's why I'm a conservative libertarian.

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  • MERICA

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  • chuy

    Those the current president have anything to do with these feelings?.

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    • LloydAsher

      I think it has something to do with butthurt liberals. You know statistically liberals have a lot less favorable views on America than conservatives.

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      • chuy

        Well I'm niether conservative nor liberal, I just can't stand trump that's all.

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  • GaelicPotato

    Go to Europe. It's better.

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    • LloydAsher

      Just dont get blown up in Sweden with its grenade problem (it's really a thing) or get shanked in England. Or raped in Germany. Or economically raped in the nordic countries.

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      • CozmoWank

        I was just reading about Sweden's grenade problem. That's fucked up. They need to put up some "Grenade Free Zone" signs and maybe make some common sense grenade laws. Maybe ban assault grenades.

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      • GaelicPotato

        Netherlands is nice. Ireland too.

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      • Hubbard

        Islam probably has something to do with it

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        • LloydAsher

          Yeah I wonder how so many belivers ended up in there.

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    • chuy

      I have family in spain, sounds like a good plan since trump hasn't threatened or mess with spain.

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      • LloydAsher

        Mainly because Spain has a big ass wall in their connection to Africa.

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        • chuy

          Really?, I never knew about said wall. I know there's a body of water but never heard of said wall.

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          • LloydAsher

            Spain is connected landwise to Africa. They fortified the area.

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