I think george washington was a piece of trash
Just like all other slavers, exploiters and abusers
Voting Results
43% Normal
Based on 28 votes
(12 yes)
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Comments ( 42
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donteatstuffoffthesidewalk
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my_life_my_way
He was a man of his time, people weren’t as sensitive back then and did what they had to to survive/succeed.
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nopurpose
There must've been more honorable ppl even in those time.
Yeah, slaves had to survive - the conditions they were forcibly put in. And many didn't.
No, he didn't have to suceed on their backs. No human is made to be a slave of anotherComment Hidden ( show )-
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LloydAsher
You got to realize it really depended on WHO owned a slave when it came to conditions. Slaves weren't cheap, they ran about the same price as a car back in those times and the middle class was barely a social class at that point. If you were owned by someone they treated you as an investment. If it was cold outside you getting sick and dying was a ruined investment. Still the treatment was inhumane scaling directly with how many other slaves were owned by the owner. The less slaves the owner had the more valuable thus better treated the slave was. Of course if the slave owner at some point grew a heart they would often free their slaves.
Slavery is still abhorrent. It's even much, much worse to do it in this age since industrialization has solved the mass production problem. Sweatshops are another beast entirely.
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my_life_my_way
Survival of the fittest, if someone’s weak enough to taken as a slave and not fight back then they deserve it.
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LloydAsher
I won't go that far. Circumstances for being captured varied. Mostly it was from other african kings and warlords did the europeans acquired slaves. Send off prisoners of war in exchange of guns and spirits? It was a very lucrative deal.
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nopurpose
That was the creed of Hitler too. Aryan race stronger and thus more worthy than all others, it's right to destroy them to have all the land and resources for themselves to populate the world.
Do you deem yourself among the fittest who are gonna survive such primitive scenario and why?
You have mentioned you are British. You have quite a strong population of brown Muslims in the UK a lot of whom seem to hold whites and infidels in utter contempt and are not shy to exert violence on any occasion they deem proper. So from a bystander point of view and following that depraved logic, if you are beaten, robbed, raped or drugged and taken into modern slavery, how would you feel if you are then told it's your fault for being weak, unfit, inferior..??Comment Hidden ( show )
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Meowypowers
He wasn't at all like the other slavers, exploiters, and abusers. If you are so ignorant to not realize what great people did, and can only judge people of the past from such an ignorant point of view; then I am embarassed for your lack of understanding, and am worried someone as simple as you has a platform.
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justdippinginthecesspool
Sure, I guess so. He was an amazing asshole, just like most other great people.
The bad things about him don't take away from his amazing accomplishments, but neither should the bad be justified because of his accomplishments.
Btw, I don't get why some people say, "He was a man of his time," in cases like this. Instead of bothering to excuse them, why not just admit that people were bigger jerks in the past, kinda like they had worse technology.
Imo, we're somewhat morally superior to our ancestors as well as scientifically superior. Isn't that how it should be anyway? Humanity ought to improve over years with ever compounding knowledge.
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Ummitsstillme
The founding fathers are men to respect! You wouldn't be here and be allowed to whine and cry if it were not for the ideas these great men propagated. Based on the Greeks and then the English. How dare anyone disrespect the values that led to the freedoms that let you disrespect them here.
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nopurpose
Are so many Muricans raised by single moms that you seek a father figure so much, like in dictatorships? I feel for you.
And regardless of entitled exploiters like GWashington and else, whom I don't owe anything, I'd still be here bcs God chose so. The ideas these not-so-great not-much-of-men propagated have been pure hypocrisy we can judge by their fruit. Citizens being slaughtered by their own police force whose salaries they are paying. What great freedoms indeed - to be arrested on any phony suspicion, be pushed face first to the ground without giving any reason and be shot execution-style if the coward's finger pulled the triggerComment Hidden ( show )
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JellyBeanBandit
Most people today would be slave owners if they were born into a slave owning family back then. It's extremely difficult to have a different moral opinion to that of the society you were raised in. One way to do it is through logically reasoning out the arguments of why owning slaves is bad, but that would've been difficult to do back then (depending on how much interaction you've had with slaves). It wasn't known back then that black people were truly equal to white people in intelligence and civility, they genuinely thought black people were stupid and needed to be controlled for their own good. It takes a long time for general societal attitudes to change and no matter how progressive someone was for their own time, it can be difficult for them to change their beliefs with society.
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nopurpose
You don't think wealthy men of the time had much ground to make a personal moral choice, do you? If the German society 100 years ago thought Jews were pest or if the Muslim societies today believe all 'infidels' are scum, does this excuse the murderers who act upon their environment's beliefs.
I say wealthy white men 250 years ago did have a choice. They were not made by law to run slaves. It was a matter of choice. One that would be lucrative and convenient, a well-threaded path, and another, moral one, that would make one an outcast in immoral rich men circles. Still, it was a choice. And like many other little ppl, he chose the way to sweet power on the back of other humans.
Even if black ppl were less intelligent or civilized, a God-fearing or just honest and moral person would not deem it fair game to enslave them.Comment Hidden ( show )-
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JellyBeanBandit
Well you're right, he could've chosen not to keep slaves, and some people did back then, even those who grew up in slave owning families. I'm just saying it would've been extremely difficult for someone born into that family/community to see slavery for what it was and to reject it, it would've been an exceptional case for someone to do that. And I'm saying it's easy now for people to denounce slavery as bad when the entire world agrees with them and encourages them for it, most of them wouldn't have had the strength to do so if they were born back then.
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nopurpose
But this also mean the person in question here was not really great as some unfoundedly claim. It's exceptional peoplenwho can be called 'great' and shall be honored. He was just a mediocre coward who happened to become leader of mediocre cowards as he was so much one of them to represent their mediocrity and cowardice the best
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JellyBeanBandit
Well he certainly wasn't perfect, but then I doubt anyone who knows enough about him would claim he is. But I don't think it's fair to say that he wasn't a great man either just because he didn't have the kind of exceptional revolutionary mind to think differently and the strength to betray his family's legacy. That's extremely rare. And then you wouldn't really be able to call anyone alive today great either since we don't know if they would've tolerated slavery too if they were born and raised back then. It's better to judge people's faults against the standards of the time, and to give them credit for their achievements.
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nopurpose
'betray his family's legacy'
Quite a controversial way to speak about a stteak of bloody exploitation handed over generations.
If everyone threaded their ancestors' steps we would be still living in caves. It's progressive minds and rebellious persons who brought progress and these are who should be called great. Not cowards who walked the ease of convention and just defended their group's interests against others. There is nothing great in that. There's no greatness in warfare no matter how successful one may be on the battlefield. G. Washington was not great, just like Atila or Tamerlan or any other military chief. If you give him credit of greatness for leading a successful insurgency, then be fair and call the Taliban great as well, given that they fought off two world empires, incomparably exceeding them in training, weapons and equipment.Comment Hidden ( show )
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bigbudchonga
You've got to be flexible with something like this and realize it was a different time. I study Ancient history and there are great men there. Should we say there are no great Romans because they were slavers? No great Ottomans? Should we take the theory further and hate on anyone in history who married someone below the current age of consent laws?
I'm not saying you in particular, but most people who hate someone because they did something against the specific morals of the current time are generally very sheepish people who would probably do things they currently view as immoral, if they lived in a past time, because they can't comprehend morality independently of the society they live in. It's not a pragmatic way to view historical figures; it's not fair or sensible way to view them.
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nopurpose
Tell me, what makes a person great from your perspective? What is greatness about for you?
Do you deem Xi Jinping and Putin great for all their achievements, regardless of the cost of oppression and abuse? They were raised and formed as persons in oppressive reality after all, does this exonerate them for all they had a conscious choice to do or not to do?
What about Trump? Shall we deem him great for his probably economic successes (I've not researched this topic to judge if he has indeed any) if by his orders thousands of ppl, including children, are locked up without a crime in inhumane conditions..What about Hitler? While non-critical opinions of him are banned from many platforms this one seems tolerant to keep alternative opinions. Wasn't he too merely a product of his time? Just a well-spoken man, who led the expression of the sentiments the majority or at least a significant portion of the population held? He had a popular support to pull it all off ya know? If he hadn't he'd be just like today's far-right fringe politicians who hardly make it to parliament..
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bigbudchonga
No, Hitler wasn't. He committed mass genocide, treachery and fratricidal war, things that are universally seen as bad, becoming of nearly any age.
I'm not saying even that George Washington was a great man. I'm saying that the metric OP is using to measure him is indicative of someone who's unable to dethatch themselves from present day morality. I've seen this kind of thing before. The kind of person who uses that metric to judge men of history is probably the kind of person who would have loved them in another age, had society told them they should.
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nopurpose
How shall we judge them then, by what standarts?
What treason do claim did Hitler commit and what do you call a fratricidal war? Do you m3an the Night of long knives or what?Comment Hidden ( show )-
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bigbudchonga
By standards that take into account the times in which they lived and generally accepted basic principles of morality during said time.
Treachery, not treason. I mean with him betraying Stalin.
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nopurpose
I think the standard you are guided by can be defined as pack mentality. It's not just the times buy also place, since in the very same times attitudes can vary greatly from one culture to another. What you are saying is 'if the majority of ppl at the time deemed something right, it shall be seen as right when judging from today's perspective'. Well the same goes about place or country. So basically greatness as a concept following this route will boil down to pack interests. That's harsly great, objectively, buddy.
All dictators have enjoyed popular support when they came to power.
How were Germans affected by Hitler breaching his deal with Stalin, in their point of view? It served their group interests. He bought them time to expand their power, and when they thought they are ready - proceeded further east. I don't think they were displeqsed with that - just like white settlers on North America weren't displeased with killing natives to grab their land. Nazi Germans rather saw their leader as a cunning negotiator who struck a good deal in a zero-sum game, even though you claim this was universally reprehended, this does not apply for the group the action benefits.
Group interests with their egoistical, callous brutality and disregard for others cannot serve as a standart for greatness.Comment Hidden ( show )
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LloydAsher
Slavery now is bad. It is bad on a moral basis. Before industrialization and the increase in production it was kinda necessary. Every major human power used slave labor at one point. Why? isnt it morally bad? Well when you dehumanize people and legitimately thought they were not as human as you that line becomes much less clear.
Remember humans originally came from tribes so the us vs them mentality is kidna hardwired in for survival purposes. Even native americans waged brutal warfare and massacres on eachother before the Europeans even thought that there was a new way to do a trading to india. Native american tribes would kill any boy over the age of 7 and kill any enemies tribes babies. That was a no no by european standards at that point. It was savage so the term savage was pretty apt for dehumanizing them.
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RoseIsabella
You should probably just fuck right off. 🙄
Relocate to a Third World Hell hole, and see if you like it better!
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GaelicPotato
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RoseIsabella
Well, George Washington is the Father of our country, he's a national hero and our first president.
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LloydAsher
Well said. People forget that we are only civilized because our society has overcome the economic shortfalls of mass production in both a moral and efficent way.
China having 3.4 million slaves today doesnt really reach the headline news anymore. If you needed another reason to hate the CCP then here you go.
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GaelicPotato
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SweetNLite
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nopurpose
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