Does everyone really think arming teachers will stop gun violence?

If two separate gunmen were able to walk into the world's largest military base with trained personnel and still mow down several people, do you really think a bunch of teachers will be prepared? How naive does he think we are?

And does everyone really think they're guns are gonna stop the government? Do you REALLY think you're gun is gonna stop a bunch of trained Marines, Navy SEALs, Army Rangers, tanks, fighter jets, and drones armed to the teeth with heavy artillery?

Does anyone remember that shooting in Houston two years ago when that last guy the gunman killed killed was carrying a concealed handgun? Rather than take cover, the dumb shit tried to be a hero, and it cost him his life. He thought his handgun was gonna stop a military-trained veteran who had an AR-15, and the gunman wasted him.

Does anyone remember that? I do. That's my hometown. That was while I was home after I came back from Thailand and before I went to Vietnam. This is one of the main reasons I'm so glad I live abroad and why I'm NEVER coming back to America.

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Based on 21 votes (10 yes)
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Comments ( 59 )
  • MangoTango

    I'm a bit confused as to why nobody has thought of just being more vigilant and aware of what's going on in schools to prevent school shootings. Most, if not all of the gunmen involved in every single school shooting has projected a sense of alienation. Perhaps the teachers and students should make a point to go out of their way to truly get to know everybody in their school, and not exclude people. There needs to be genuine camaraderie developed. Whenever the media features the description of these shooters, these guys tend to fit an alienated outsider sort of profile. They seem to have been shunned at school. Why else would they develop such a deep hate and drive to hurt everyone there? If these people had real social connections with people at school that made them feel TRULY a part of the school, that identity link with the school should force the person to associate their self identity with the school. This way the potential shooter can't dehumanize people he's familiar with on a daily basis. If he realizes he can depend upon them, and vice versa, that sense of social connection would likely prevent school shootings from ever happening.

    One more thing! The ridiculous and useless commercial media is playing into these alienated shooters hands by making these sick murderers a for the moment celebrity. That limelight gives these shooters intensive attention they seek. My thought? Don't give them any media attention.

    It's less about guns, weaponry, or whatever heinous tools get used in these violence sprees, and more about simple human behavior. Hate to say it all narrows down to that Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, but it's true.

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  • charli.m

    I would love to hear a single case of someone in the crowd having a gun and this occurence stopping a mass shooting. Cos I have heard that argument, but I haven't seen it happening.

    All I can see is that "defender" being mistaken for the original shooter and being shot by law enforcement. Or some other defender who means well but is clueless and panicking.

    Surely the US has had enough shootings now that someone has tried this? No?

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    • Faceless

      happened in texas three months ago

      https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/reminder-former-nra-instructor-armed-ar-15-stopped-tx-church-shooting

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      • charli.m

        I stand corrected.

        I was thinking more along the lines of someone actually targeted by the shooter, but I didn't think about people nearby like that.

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      • MangoTango

        Has there ever been a mass shooting at a gun show?

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    • jaystrong

      Just recently during the church shootings a man also armed with an AK shot at and stopped that twisted fucker from killing more people. It stopped his rampage all together.
      Just because someone has a gun doesn't mean it'll stop all the killings, but once they start at least if someone had a weapon they would have a chance.
      Once the killer/attacker is shot the person who saved the day would then drop their weapon too so they don't get blasted by the cops or swat.
      It makes NO sense to take away law abiding citizen's guns. They/we have the right to protect ourselves. Those who typically go on these rampages and/or do crimes do so with illegal firearms or illegally obtained.

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    • CozmoWank

      Ordinarily I defend the media. However The media has a bias against guns. They give a very disproportionate view and play down any defensive use of firearms.

      "If It Bleeds, It Leads" so they sensationalize the shootings. In 2016 homicide was the 16th leading cause of death; the flu and pneumonia, comparatively, killed more than three times as many people. (Source:National Safety Council)

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      • charli.m

        Perhaps, though from an outside the USA/occasional US visitor stance, your media seems to be fairly pro gun. I can't say I've read extensively, though.

        I don't know the statistics, but I also don't doubt you. I know that you're a well informed and intelligent person. But I still don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to prevent an easily preventable death. And mass shootings just don't happen in the developed world like they do in the US.

        Like, honestly, have guns if you want, that's your business. But surely responsible gun owners agree there should be stringent rules and regulations enforced? You are a sensible and responsible person, but that's not always the case...there's so many crazies and just plain idiots.

        I'm tired and in pain so I've probably waffled. Lemme know what I fucked up.

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        • CozmoWank

          I should have specified the news media. I can't imagine American movies WITHOUT guns.

          There really are no simple solutions.

          Many problems arise out of the individual States rights to enact laws vs Federal rights. I always thought it was a national law that a person had to be at least 18 in order to purchase a firearm. I only recently discovered that in the state of Virginia there is no minimum age requirement. I think that's nuts. But anti-gun people would not be happy if the federal government required them to recognize pistol permits from all other states. As it is now, states will recognize some other states pistol permits but not from ALL 50 states. Only those other states with whom they have a reciprocity agreement. As I said, it gets pretty complicated.

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          • charli.m

            Oh I figured that was what you meant. Haha.

            Yeah, definitely. Nothing is simple. I'm of the inclination to believe that many if not all things can be vastly improved by education and early childhood intervention, but I guess as someone who trained as an early childhood educator, I'm kinda biased...

            I have no doubt there are many anti gun people who think a full ban is the only option. I have to say as an anti gun person myself, that would certainly be my ideal. But obviously, it'll never happen. It's ingrained in American culture. It really SHOULD be easy to find a compromise, but as most people, particularly those in positions of power, are retarded fuckknuckles...well...

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            • CozmoWank

              Retarded Fuckknuckle is an excellent assessment of our current "leader".

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    • Aethylfritha

      Youre australian right?
      You never had to worry about school shooters...did you even think about it?
      When i was in school i always said never bully or humiliate anybody cause they just might blow you away. But these days shooters are killing random kids they dont even know.

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      • charli.m

        So get angry about your government not doing shit to protect people.

        We haven't had a mass shooting since I was in primary school. Because it happened, 35 people died, and the prime minister did the right thing and set shit into action to make gun laws sensible and safer. Has it completely stopped gun crime? Of course not. Has it made gun ownership illegal? No. Just more safely regulated. But we don't have children being murdered every other month.

        So I'm not sure why you're blasting me because I didn't experience it personally. Blast the idiots who are in charge (who also didn't have all the school shootings we have nowadays when they were in school, but whatever...) who could do shit to fix it, but don't care about children's safety if it interferes with lining their own pockets.

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        • Aethylfritha

          Im not attacking you or anything, im just pondering what its like not to have this issue. I think you misunderstood my tone.
          I definitely think there should be stricter gun rules and if a person is threatening to committ a violent act domeone should intervene

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          • charli.m

            My bad, I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry.

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  • curious-bunny

    Idiots be idiots, ok look guns are everywhere in America already I can't say for other countries as I'm not that educated on them so what would be the point. Anyways it's to late to ban guns, we all have guns. But making gun free zones is just idiotic, don't get me wrong I totally get it im not trying to cause an argument just state my opinion is all. I believe it's idiotic cause well the person that's going to go shooting up a place isn't going to care if it's gun free or not. So i say let the respobspible licensed gun owners who desire to carry and accept and or are willing to put themselves in harm's way to save others well why would you want to stop someone who's trying to help when you desperately need it? Sure there's risk to there life but they willingly accept it, I guess my point being why restrict your ability to defend yourself and others when there's so many physcos out there. And for those of you uneducated getting a bun is actually very easy though it depends mainly on what you want. If you want a black powder firearm it's as simple as paying for it as legally there considered antique. If you want something like a handgun well depending on your history and what paperwork you bring with you it can be a breeze or a nightmare, want something like a suppressor or that's full auto? Good luck that shite is a bastard to get. So when it comes down to it as long as the clerk is doing there job there is actually a good amount of gun control. Honestly I support black powder forearms not needing a license for cause well, you can loose the ability to own a gun quite easily, I know a guy who defended himself from his wife attacking him she drew blood and attacked first he only bruised her, he went for a walk and when he got back the police were there she told them a story none if wich including the caked on blood on his head, so he was left with the choice do I tell the truth or go with what she said and save her kids, he saved her kids from being separated from there mom and being stuck in the cruel system of foster care(I've been in it it sucks) so now he is not allowed to own firearms, he doesn't particularly like firearms so I guess no harm no foul but it makes it so people who didn't do anything wrong can still enjoy the smell of burning powder. This got quite lengthy I apologize, oh another benefit of bp it's relatively kid friendly, great way to teach your kids responsibility and how to use a gun

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  • nikkiclaire

    No, guns won't stop the government. We should be allowed rpg's and tanks as well. That's the true spirit of the 2nd amendment.

    Let's see a crazed kid try to take over a decently armed school.

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    • Daugenstein2

      Sure, why not! While we're at it, I should be able to buy plutonium. Why the hell not?

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      • nikkiclaire

        You think governments have some magic ability don't you. I mean they would never sell anything to our enemies or start a war for personal profit, naaah they are all knowing and without corruption. They know best.

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        • McBean

          Germ warfare, babe. That's all I'm gonna say.

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          • Dustyair

            HA HA, Holy shit, you're hardcore!

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  • Aethylfritha

    Last week a teacher at my sons school allowed kids to pop baloons as part of a project. It caused a lot of panic!
    Sad that my kid rhough it could be his day to die at school.

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  • Sunshinegirl

    You have misrepresented the issue. No one is advocating arming all teachers.
    And no one is saying mass shootings at schools or elsewhere can be absolutely prevented by anything.

    The suggestion is that teachers already qualified to carry should be provided the option of, with a little extra training, carrying while on the job, instead of making schools a gun free zone---which invites attack. Vulnerability invites attack. That is why mass shooting always take place in gun free zones.

    Your post is really ignorant.

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  • Well I severely doubt the second amendment is going to be taken away but your argument here seems to be, "You aren't 100% guaranteed to survive with a gun, therefor even with a gun you'll 100% fail with a gun".

    Faulty logic. I doubt anyone is saying there's absolutely no chance you'd fail with a gun, they're just saying they'd have more of a chance, which isn't false.

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  • MangoTango

    No one ever messed with Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry either. Hmmm....

    Ah why not post the best scene ever -->
    Do You Feel Lucky, Punk?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xjr2hnOHiM

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  • MangoTango

    Eh, 'Murica!!!!

    Imagine if you went to school and your teacher is packing heat. Wears spurs and a ten gallon hat too! Rides up on a palomino. There's sagebrush....tumbleweeds.....

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  • Ummitsme

    (You're) killing me with (your) hate for the English (American) language. Until you can simply function and speak (your) mother tongue I shouldn't entertain (your) thoughts. But I will. No one is actually advocating arming teachers, that is a euphemism just like "Arming pilots". There are many flight marshals and they arguably have deterred criminal activity on planes. Armed trained security in schools could arguably do the same.

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    • McBean

      You're killing me with your complete lack of awareness of the mathematical concepts that unite military analysts all over the world. The OP has described the tactical situation as strongly implied by a standard concept known as Force Multiplier. Crudely put it is the number of bullets put into the target area times the stopping power times the firing rate .... etc. When this is compared to the number an Air Marshall can do with hollow point ammunition in his pistol, an AR-15 out performs probably by a factor of 40 or so.

      Sorry, this kind of mathematic advantage completely sinks your argument. Although you write well, your ignorance of quantitative methods is laughable. Go teach high school English classes and consider studying 9th grade algebra for personal improvement.

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      • Ummitsme

        You're killing me with your lack of understanding of the word, "deterrent" An alarm/security system won't stop a burglar from robbing your house but that little sign in your yard is a deterrent. Speaking of signs, the one that says "gun free zone" at schools doesn't actually stop school shooters but one that says, "protected by armed security" may in fact deter would be school shooters.

        You're right, it would take a sizeable security force to practically disable a threat that possesses a high capacity rifle, but the deterrent factor of armed security could perhaps save lives. The truth is the root of what is motivating these youths to mass murder needs to be addressed.

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        • McBean

          I agree with you. Certainly a sign that says, "An AR-15 rifle will give you a 40 to 1 kill ratio if enter our school" will not be a deterrent. What about making assault rifle manufacturers partially liable for monetary damages unless the weapon is a Canadian style hunting rifle. My rationale is that when funding is cut the issue is usually dead.

          Your go.

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          • Ummitsme

            You want to make gun manufacturers liable if their tools are used in a crime? When an individual chooses to shoot a person that individual becomes an attempted murderer. If someone runs someone down with their car you should be able to sue the auto manufacturer? Stab with a chef knife, hack with a machete, club with a baseball bat, etc. Suicides using pharmaceuticals, ropes whatever. Surviving family members could sue those companies.

            Such a precident would create so much litigation it would destroy many, many industries. The cost of litigation if your product were used in a homicide would
            essentially "nerf" the whole country.

            The idea of using civil courts to create change like this is absolute madness. If you wan't "Canadian style" guns it needs to be mandated through law, enforced through the criminal justice system.

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            • McBean

              It's not only bad precedent, it's TERRIBLE precedent. I agree that law enforced by the criminal justice system the only reasonable approach. That legislation nor the "bait" idea I proposed will EVER happen in the U.S. because of the NRA. The NRA is an intractable problem that an articulate person like you would never be able to solve despite your high verbal verbal aptitude, and remedial ability with mathematical concepts.

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  • Daugenstein2

    Obviously, enough people care because the guy's information is inaccurate. But you're right! People who don't read don't care because they're too fucking daft to care.

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  • jaystrong

    They were unarmed in that military base he attacked. You'll notice many of the shooters choose "no gun zones" when they pick their targeted places.

    No, I don't think guns should be banned and you'll never see that happen. You'll never see gun violence or any sort of violence end any time soon no matter what we try. I think it's best to continue to have the right to own and carry guns.
    There's more issues behind the whole topic. Mental issues, the upbringing or lack there of it and the list goes on.

    I will question what kind of guns people can get their hands on. More questions need to be raised when someone wants to buy one. Also, there should be an entity that foresees how guns are sold. A certified dealer, not off the streets. Anyone who wants to get rid of their guns can sell to a dealer or hand over/sell to law enforcement.

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  • CozmoWank

    I suppose you are aware the majority of aircraft shot down during the Vietnam war was brought down by small arms fire. Remind me again how well we did against a lesser equipped force.

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    • The majority of US aircraft were lost to AAA.
      The lesser equipped force was backed with men, intelligence, and equipment from their communist comrades the Chinese and Soviets. So there were three countries practicing unrestricted warfare against a military that was being directed to follow rules of engagement.

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      • CozmoWank

        You are correct. I misspoke about the aircraft. However, they were still lesser equipped. We had the most advanced military. History is full of examples where the more "advanced" military gets defeated. Look at Germany in WW2. We are still fighting in Afghanistan.

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        • US had the F4 Phantom and the Vietnamese had MIGs supplied by the Soviets with Soviet or Chinese pilots. Until the US figured out how to fight the MIG in air to air combat, the F4s got spanked. Advances in SAM detection helped too.
          The ground war was a clusterfuck for many reasons, just like Afghanistan is now.

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          • Nickvey

            Super sabers Thuds sandies you name it

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  • Dustyair

    Poster, you sound like a real coward. Anyways, somebody has to shoot back at these people to stop them, it's pretty simple logic. Giving your buddies wart infested cocks blow jobs won't quite do it. Yes, teachers should be armed, if they CHOOSE to be armed.

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    • MangoTango

      Never asked but I want to know what country this person lives in?

      There's quite a few very strict countries out there. My guess is this person has traveled on the family fund to get around the world as a tourist. If he was a local with little chance to be globally mobile, he would probably not be so silly opinionated. However, from the guy's initial post, he seems intelligent and educated. His points make sense. I don't think having armed teachers will help. A military base shouldn't lapse security to allow any sort of shootings.

      Guns have been quite the norm in the U.S. forever. Most people that have guns don't use them for crime purposes. Many people actually use them for sport shooting at target ranges. Whatever they like, I guess. I don't see the appeal, but that's their leisure. Funny that only recently these crazy shootings are happening more frequently. They're still rare. It's just that you see it when the media spotlights and glorifies violence giving the sicko murdering shooters the attention they seek.

      In Switzerland, the whole country is armed. They have a citizen militia. Haven't heard of a school shooting there. No invasions either. Very little crime. Rich country! High exports! Gorgeous scenery. Plentiful skiing. I could go on...but I've run off topic.

      This whole thread makes me miss living on an Air Force base! That was sooo much fun!!!! You have no idea if you haven't lived on a military base.

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      • Daugenstein2

        The poster lives in Ho Chi Minh City making it on his own. He's an overseas English teacher soon to be a freelance coder. Next year he'll be moving to Chile where they have stricter gun laws. Year before last, he lived in Thailand. Thank you for taking such an interest in me by the way.

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  • Paigiepoo

    Like Obama said," the bring a knife you bring a gun."
    He knows all

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    • Daugenstein2

      Who the hell is gonna rob a store and kill 15 people with a knife? My god, the idiocy in America really speaks volumes. No wonder the rest of the world hates us and doesn't trust us anymore.

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      • jaystrong

        Plenty of stories where a person armed with a knife has killed a handful of people.
        If they don't use a gun or a knife they'll use something else. Explosives, a truck ... the list goes on.

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        • Aethylfritha

          Machete or bomb? Or driving a truck into people?

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  • Paigiepoo

    NRA saves / Margaret Sanger kills children with tax. Dollars.
    You know those strange things that women have plop out, aka children.. Its not the object, its telling people. It is OK to kill children with abortion dehumanizing all of us in the. Na me. Progressive, sets a bad standard for evolution

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    • Daugenstein2

      First of all, they're fetuses when they're in the woman's womb. Secondly, it's her body not yours. Third, nobody seems to notice or care whenever it's rape or incest. Fourth, nobody seems to care to feed the children after they're born or for their safety. Any party that opposes universal healthcare and gun control or supports war and the death penalty is in no position to call itself pro-life. Reality has a liberal bias. You better learn to accept that. You really should be careful when you try to use strawman arguments. Straw is highly flammable. Cheers!

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      • Rich_Guy

        Idealistically, I agree that you have a point. But you had better learn to accept the inevitability of Social Darwinism. Social Darwinism ruled the ice ages, ruled the accentuation of inequality over the centuries, and explains the dynamics of world domination. We the 1% are unstoppable. We know our interests are best served by giving you the self determination to produce wealth for our disproportionate benefit. There is a symbiosis between the middle classes and we your overlords.

        Now, get back to work.

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        • Ummitsme

          Lmao at "social Darwinism ruled the ice ages". I think you meant to say "survival of the fittest." Unless the mammoths were just tying to fit in Rich Guy. For someone that claims to be rich, you do have a poor understanding of the language you consider your own.

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          • Rich_Guy

            Please read the comment about cultural anthropology. Yes, physical survival was more important in the ice age that it was afterwards. And, it is different than social selection of hunting team leaders, and ways that meat from the kill was distributed. There are many rules and customs within a tribal society that will give certain members long term advantages over the others.

            If you think we are all equal in today's world, you are pathetically blinded by your own idealism. Get a life, and get a job.

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        • Daugenstein2

          Oh please! Cyber tough guy! You don't scare me. It wasn't Charles Darwin who came up with that phrase, "Survival of the fittest." That was Spencer. Read your history first if you want me to take you seriously! Now get back to work!

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      • jaystrong

        First off it's only the woman's choice to have the baby, kill it or keep it so the MAN can pay child support.
        Sure, it's the woman's body, but the man has no say if he wants it or not.

        Plenty of people CARE if rape or incest was the way the woman was impregnated. That makes a big difference between someone who wants to abort the child or someone who uses abortion as a form of birth control.

        There's a HUGE difference between PRO life. On one hand you/we are talking about a baby who anyone should want to live. On the other hand you're usually talking about some sick bastard that raped and killed people and far lefties fully believe they should live and the babies should die.

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        • Daugenstein2

          You're welcome to feed all those starving orphaned children if you think it's so wrong. Take a trip to India sometime. And just so you know kids that grow up in foster care are three times more likely to grow up to be criminal sociopaths.

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          • jaystrong

            There's no excuse for starving kids anywhere and when tons of countries toss out tons of money, food and medicine to help them and they don't receive it, it's not a reason to wish them dead. That's where again you're wrong. Rather than the easy fix of offing some baby why not focus on truly helping those children? But, because of these third world leaders and even 1st world we're all under the assumption we can't help? We could, but we don't.

            I know plenty of kids who grew up in foster care, adopted and they are just as normal as the next kid who wasn't. I know many kids who grew up in great homes, perfect families, money etc. who grew up to be losers.

            You're assuming far too much when it comes to life, Daugenstein.
            I'm not saying this can all be solved, but most anything can be if people really cared. First things first you need to care about children.

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            • Daugenstein2

              I just love how all the gun nuts use strawman arguments and try to bring up abortion when they're caught talking out of their asses. Gun control and abortion are apples and oranges.

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