Do you think israel is an apartheid state?

13 Comments

I sometimes hear certain people arguing that Israel is an Apartheid state. I disagree. Arabs living in Israel have JUST as much rights as Jews living there (even MORE than they are granted in ANY Arab state BTW). Arabs can AND DO engage in all kinds of roles in Israëli society.

If anything, it's the Arab states who are discriminatory, since Jews are often not welcome there. As is well-known, the (Muslim) Arabs hate the Jews. Why? Because of Islam, the current greatest evil in the world.

They could've had peace in the Middle East ten times over, but the Arabs don't want peace, they want victory (another Holocaust). If the Arabs were to lay down their arms, there would be peace, but if the Israelis were to lay down their arms, there would be genocide.

http://www.patcondell.net/israel-and-palestine/

No 22
Other (explain) 0
Yes 15
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Comments ( 13 )
  • disthing
    10 years ago

    I disagree with a lot of what Pat Condell says in regards to Islam.

    I also disagree with you in some regards. I don't believe Islam is the 'current greatest evil in the world'. Ideas cannot be evil.

    Yes many Arab states have it culturally ingrained that Jews are an enemy. This means Israel is a primary target for a lot of loathing. I agree with you.

    I don't think Israel is an Apartheid state, exactly. I think the Palestinians and the Israelis have a complex relationship, and that has been complicated, created even, by Britain and the UN. I think the situation is far more multifaceted than a simple Muslims vs. Jews boxing match.

    I also don't agree with your statement: "They could've had peace in the Middle East ten times over, but the Arabs don't want peace, they want victory (another Holocaust)". The Middle East is far more complicated than that. Every country is different, and religious divide is not the only cause of conflict. Furthermore, it's not right to imply that Israel has acted purely in defence.

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    • BLAh81
      10 years ago

      "I disagree with a lot of what Pat Condell says in regards to Islam."

      I don't. I do disagree with a few minor things, but in general I think the man is spot on.

      "I also disagree with you in some regards. I don't believe Islam is the 'current greatest evil in the world'. Ideas cannot be evil."

      If you look at all the problems in the world, you can see that Islam plays a big part in many. Islam is an aggressive, expansionist religion which seeks to kill, convert or subjugate all non-Muslims. You may be tolerant of Islam, but do you ACTUALLY think Islam is tolerant of you (assuming you're a non-Muslim)? Hell no. The notion that ideas cannot be evil is absurd in my view. For example, do you honestly think that Hitler's idea to have all European Jews gassed wasn't evil? Really?

      "Yes many Arab states have it culturally ingrained that Jews are an enemy. This means Israel is a primary target for a lot of loathing. I agree with you."

      I'm glad we agree. However, I would like to add that the reason it's culturally ingrained is (mainly) because of Islam. Islamic scripture isn't exactly kind to the Jews you know. This has to do with the Jews' refusal to become Muslims and Muhammad being all butthurt about that.

      "I don't think Israel is an Apartheid state, exactly. I think the Palestinians and the Israelis have a complex relationship, and that has been complicated, created even, by Britain and the UN. I think the situation is far more multifaceted than a simple Muslims vs. Jews boxing match."

      I agree that there are indeed MANY more factors, but I also think Palestinian stubbornness is the biggest factor of them all.

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      • disthing
        10 years ago

        Ok. Well our perspectives differ, but that's alright :)

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  • thegypsysailor
    10 years ago

    I have traveled all over the world, including Saudi Arabia and Egypt and I have never been to a worse place than Israel. They are an angry, warmongering country run by a religion that tolerates absolutely no other points of view.
    The Jews were offered 2 other places on earth to settle after WW2, with no neighbors bent on their destruction, where they could have lived and prospered peacefully, but because of the religious importance they chose Palestine, the stupidest decision any persecuted peoples could have made. They thrive on war and hate and because of that they will never allow a peaceful resolution to the "middle east situation".

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    • BLAh81
      10 years ago

      "I have traveled all over the world, including Saudi Arabia and Egypt and I have never been to a worse place than Israel."

      Have you been in these countries several times? If not, your experience may well have been an exception. I know of quite some people with experiences directly opposite to yours. I'm honestly flabbergasted you would prefer a truly barbaric Islamic country like Saudi Arabia over Israel. I mean, Israel is EASILY 10 times more civilized than this lunatic asylum, which is only slightly better than North Korea.

      "They are an angry, warmongering country run by a religion that tolerates absolutely no other points of view."

      Maybe they appear angry and warmongering because they are surrounded by hostile countries bent on their utter destruction. Israel has been attacked by Arab states several times. Luckily, they won EACH time.

      As for the religion (which not all Jews endorse by a longshot BTW), I'm pretty much with you. Judaism is indeed an intolerant religion, but Israel was founded as a SECULAR state, unlike all these "friendly" Arab Islamic republics.

      "The Jews were offered 2 other places on earth to settle after WW2, with no neighbors bent on their destruction, where they could have lived and prospered peacefully, but because of the religious importance they chose Palestine, the stupidest decision any persecuted peoples could have made."

      I agree with this bit actually.

      "They thrive on war and hate and because of that they will never allow a peaceful resolution to the "middle east situation"."

      This is totally false. Each concession Israel makes is met with more demands. Israel absolutely wants peace. The Arabs want peace too, but only after Israel is destroyed.

      One more thing, Israeli soldiers aren't known for using children as human shields, whereas the scum of Hamas, etc. is.

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      • thegypsysailor
        10 years ago

        My first encounter with a Saudi gentleman was a broad smile, a slight bow and the words, "Welcome. My home is your home." Even though we were there illegally (no tourism allowed, period) taking refuge from a storm in the Red Sea, we sailed into Yanbu. EVERY person we met repeated this statement and we had 5 of the most friendly, hospitable days I have had in any country.
        My first encounter with Israelis was seeing a 50 caliber, double barrel AA gun on a warship pointed at my 6 year old daughter, as I came up from below where I was cooking breakfast, 50 miles offshore (international waters) as we sailed toward Tel Aviv. This scenario was repeated 5 times before I reached Tel Aviv. Now we were on a trimaran, clearly marked as being a US boat and my daughter was a small, very blonde child. The terrorists do not have too many trimarans, and certainly do not have many blonde children in their ranks!
        In the marina in Tel Aviv, they took all my guns, saying they would protect us, but a few days later a terrorist cell paddled into the marina, landed several yards from our boat and went into town. They boarded a bus where they killed an American woman (unarmed tourist)(international news, check it out). Nice job of protecting us. It was just pure luck that they didn't notice the US flag on our boat, or it could have been us.
        One day in town, I took my daughter to a restaurant for a nice meal. You have to understand, that as a child aboard a sailing boat, fresh milk is a rarity, so I ordered her a glass. The woman refused to serve her milk, saying if she did the plates we were eating on could never be used again. I said, "Fine, I'll pay for her damn plates, but this child needs fresh milk, if not because she likes it, but because she needs it". No sale. Needless to say we left that restaurant and never ate off the boat again. When religion trumps the health and welfare of children, then it should be abolished! Everyone there carries a gun and when I was there I saw people brandishing their guns at each other (Israelis!) over a minor traffic accident, twice!
        If the Israelis really wanted peace, as you state, they would immediately stop building settlements in the occupied territories as the UN AND the rest of the world have demanded. Instead they build more and more; you can not convince me that these are the actions of a state seeking peace. They are a miserable, non-secular little state that derives it's pleasure from being at war, always.
        Nobody will ever convince me to return to that horrific place, not for a million bucks!

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        • BLAh81
          10 years ago

          The first part of your story can simply be summed up as: we had a really good time in Saudi Arabia and a really bad time in Israel. That doesn't mean ANYTHING at all. Sure, there more than likely are really friendly Saudis as well as really shitty Israelis too. Does that mean Saudi Arabia is a better country than Israel? Fuck no! Saudi Arabia is a barbaric shithole. Tourism isn't even allowed there (as you yourself pointed out). Ask yourself the hypothetical question if you'd rather have your daughter (being female) growing up in Israel or Saudi Arabia. If you pick Saudi Arabia, you're either insane or a blatant liar.

          You complain that the Israeli safety precautions are very rigorous and have bothered you a lot, but you also complain about the fact the Israelis weren't able to prevent a terrorist attack (maybe funded by that "great" nation, Saudi Arabia) on an American woman. This, I find MINDBLOWINGLY hypocritical of you. Did you ever stop to think that maybe those safety precautions were so rigorous PRECISELY BECAUSE they wanted to prevent such terrorist attacks? Who knows how many attacks they DID prevent, but all you seem to be able to do is whine and whine.

          "When religion trumps the health and welfare of children, then it should be abolished!"

          I agree 100%. That's exactly how I feel.

          "If the Israelis really wanted peace, as you state, they would immediately stop building settlements in the occupied territories as the UN AND the rest of the world have demanded. Instead they build more and more; you can not convince me that these are the actions of a state seeking peace."

          You HAVE to make a distinction between Israelis adhering to Judaism and secular Israelis. Israeli society is DEEPLY divided over this issue.
          The building of settlements is done by RELIGIOUS Jews, keep that in mind. THOSE assholes are indeed not after peace.

          "They are a miserable, non-secular little state that derives it's pleasure from being at war, always."

          Total horseshit. Israel IS a secular nation (unlike all these Islamic states ruled by intolerant bearded clerics wearing dresses). Why would they want war, when they're a tiny nation, surrounded by a sea of hostile neighbours.

          "Nobody will ever convince me to return to that horrific place, not for a million bucks!"

          Fine, I really couldn't care less. That most likely also applies to the Israelis themselves.

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          • thegypsysailor
            10 years ago

            Just out of curiosity, have you actually been to either country?
            You are welcome to your opinion, as am I, I hope, but if someone pointed a 50 cal AA gun at YOUR daughter, in international waters, wouldn't you be a tad upset? Coming alongside and asking my intentions is one thing, but indiscriminately pointing guns at children 50 miles from their country is a horse of a different color, is it not?

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            • BLAh81
              10 years ago

              "Just out of curiosity, have you actually been to either country?"

              Honestly? No. But that doesn't automatically mean I'm talking out of my ass. For example, does a doctor need to have cancer to diagnose a patient with that disease?

              "if someone pointed a 50 cal AA gun at YOUR daughter, in international waters, wouldn't you be a tad upset?"

              Definitely, that would only be natural.

              "Coming alongside and asking my intentions is one thing, but indiscriminately pointing guns at children 50 miles from their country is a horse of a different color, is it not?"

              Yes, it most certainly is. However (and I'm not trying to justify anything here), given the hostility Israel faces continuously, their over-the-top response wasn't COMPLETELY irrational though.

              BTW, you DO realize PLENTY of people have had a great time in Israel, right, whereas plenty of people had a REALLY, REALLY bad time in Saudi Arabia (gays for example)?

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  • [Old Memory]
    10 years ago

    Israel Keyes

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    • BLAh81
      10 years ago

      Very interesting, but what does it have to do with the question?

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      • [Old Memory]
        10 years ago

        Nothing, just saw all that news shit about his story and was like "what weird name for a weird guy"

        Then I saw this and it reminded me of it.

        Jews and Islamics are the same people if you go back far enough so it doesn't really matter.

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