Right wingers seem to have an issue with both feminine men and trans women

I've noticed a lot of inconsistencies from these kinds of people when they obsess over these subjects. On one hand, right wing and "anti SJW" types will mock and deride femboys on the basis that they're not "real men" and that it's laughable or degenerate for boys and men to wear dresses, makeup or play with dolls. They also fear monger about how women are being masculinized and the men are being feminized, and that feminists and SJW's want to destroy gender norms. But then they also bash trans women, repeatedly calling them men and insisting that they can't be considered women just for liking extremely feminine things. In which case, it's basically not possible for someone born male to be feminine in a way many right wingers find acceptable. You're viewed as broken and a degenerate either way. What's also strange is that these same people have begun cosying up with "gender critical feminists" aka TERFs, despite the fact that many TERFs have the same feelings of gender norms being bad, to the point where they refer to gender norms as sexist stereotypes and label themselves as "gender abolitionists". Odd considering that those are the very opinions right wingers complain about so much, but they platform people who say those things in the name of demonizing trans people. The more I look into this stuff as someone who isn't inherently interested in politics, the more it becomes hard to take conservatives' endless complaints of being unfairly accused of bigotry seriously. When you're so bored and petty that you'll actually publicly complain about the way other people dress, it's safe to say you lack priorities.

Help us keep this site organized and clean. Thanks!
[ Report Post ]
Comments ( 55 )
  • 1WeirdGuy

    I feel that way. If you are gay it doesn't bother me if you're a little feminine but if you are straight and you do that thing where the end of every sentence you make sounds like a question it gets on my nerves. But it's not like I care enough to think about it that much. I just say in my head "god help us its another one" and I move on.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Neesa

      This answers nothing in the writeup.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • 1WeirdGuy

        To be honest half the terms you use I didnt understand like "gender abolitionist" and "gender critical feminists" and "TERFs".

        Ill try to answer any direct questions you have if you want to know the other point of view. but a lot of people dont subscribe to this stuff they arent up to date with all those terms. So it doesnt even make sense to me to be honest.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
          -
        • Clunk42

          Gender abolitionist: Someone who wants complete and total gender equality (theoretically).

          TERFs: Trans-exclusionary radical feminist. They are radical feminists who don't consider trans-women to be women.

          Gender critical feminists: I had honestly never heard this term, but my guess is that it refers to feminists who dislike the modern trends of transgenders and gender-neutrals.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
            -
          • 1WeirdGuy

            You hear bout the trannys in womens sports? They even have em winning womens beauty contests. Its funny but maybe men are just so superior they are even better at being women than women

            Comment Hidden ( show )
  • chrysocolla

    Speak for yourself brother, I'm a right winger and I love feminine men.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Neesa

      You > other right wingers.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
  • MonteMetcalfe

    I would imagine they are concerned with situations like the recent one involving a naked man (who claimed to be a woman) parading around a female-only area in Los Angeles spa exposing his genitals to women and girls.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Neesa

      Unisex spaces already exist, so that was always a risk anyway. That also has nothing to do with men being feminine.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • MonteMetcalfe

        A: That occurred in a FEMALE-ONLY space and also illustrates problems people have with allowing even unisex spaces.
        B: You'll notice the original post also addressed trans women not just men being feminine.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
          -
        • Neesa

          A female only space being a public restroom? There isn't a barrage of sexual assaults in women's restrooms, it just doesn't happen. If it was as serious as people who complain about it say, public bathrooms would need to be security zones, yet even the people who fear monger about this stuff aren't even asking for that. Sex segregated public restrooms is a historically recent thing, and it didn't happen because women were being raped all the time. It happened largely because of religious modesty concerns. It's a fake issue.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
            -
          • MonteMetcalfe

            You live in a dream world if you think predatory males aren't going to take advantage of opportunities given to them. I'd love to hear your definition of "historically recent". So why shouldn't someone, religious or otherwise, have their concerns of modesty respected? Should we all be walking around nude in your ideal society?

            Comment Hidden ( show )
              -
            • Neesa

              Public restrooms are ALREADY easily accessed by men. What don't you get about that?

              Comment Hidden ( show )
            • Neesa

              You didn't actually address what I wrote at all. Here's the key part simpleton "If it was as serious as people who complain about it say, public bathrooms would need to be security zones, yet even the people who fear monger about this stuff aren't even asking for that."

              If it's a real issue, why are no rapes happening in restrooms? Why should trans people take the fall for would be rapists who don't even go into the bathroom?

              Comment Hidden ( show )
  • techpc

    There are crazies on all sides... I'd be interested in where you got all of this information from.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Neesa

      From the stuff that appears over and over again among right wing media. That whole "feminization of men" comes up over and over.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • LloydAsher

        Might I add the leftist media seems to be feminizing males. Because it comes up so often. Toxic masculinity being the prime example.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
          -
        • Neesa

          There's nothing wrong with men being feminine.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
            -
          • LloydAsher

            Except that its not an attractive feature to women. Women expect guys to be masculine.

            Yeah theres nothing intrinsically wrong with being feminine. Though I perfer if people didnt demonize a way of life for guys.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
  • my_life_my_way

    They just want men to be men and women to be women, it’s not that confusing

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Neesa

      And what makes a woman a woman and a man a man? I don't think you can answer that question without being somewhat stereotypical.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • MonteMetcalfe

        Science. Chromosomes & genitals.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
          -
        • Neesa

          This isn't entirely accurate since there are around 3 million women in the world who don't have XX chromosomes.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
            -
          • MonteMetcalfe

            Accord to whom? Are you sure they aren't inter-sexed and living as women?

            Comment Hidden ( show )
              -
            • Neesa

              No, because they don't all have both genitalia. There are various make ups of chromosome patterns. That is hard science.

              Comment Hidden ( show )
        • Neesa

          In which case, why are feminine men not considered "real men"?

          Comment Hidden ( show )
            -
          • MonteMetcalfe

            Ask someone who claims they aren't real men.

            Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Jem_Shadow

    You obviously haven't paid attention to the anti gay lobbying in many countries, from criminalizing homosexuality to making it legal to refuse them service pr fire them. But sure, no one cares. You just stay in your fantasy land.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Clunk42

    Feminization of men and transgenders are both considered bad in certain major religions, so that likely has something to do with it.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • BlueAlice

      You make a good point: I remember that at evangelism has supported TERFism in the past, to the point of sponsorship

      Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Inkmaster

    In my experience, right wingers don't hate feminine men, they just hate men being feminized and the issues of the feminization of men and transgender women are separate issues.

    As I said, most on the right don't care if a man chooses to act feminine. What they have an issue with is men being feminized. What that means is that many men are being socially pressured to be more feminine. They're told that any form of masculinity is evil. Boys are treated like defective girls. They don't hate men that choose to be feminine, they just hate masculinity being villainized.

    People on the right also generally don't hate transgender people. They disagree with the idea of transgenderism, but they don't hate those who are transgender. Most people on the right believe that a man is a man is a man and a woman is a woman is a woman. They believe that just because someone thinks or feels that they're the opposite gender or wants to be the opposite gender, that doesn't mean that they are. It is their opinion that those who believe that they are the opposite gender have a mental disorder and require treatment and they don't believe that having an operation to make you more like the opposite gender is an effective form of treatment, nor is taking hormones.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Neesa

      Having a problem isn't just about hate. You don't have to hate trans people to be bigoted toward them. If you dismiss their issues and go out of your way to make their lives difficult, which right wingers do, it doesn't matter if it's hateful or not.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • Inkmaster

        "If you dismiss their issues and go out of your way to make their lives difficult, which right wingers do" How? How do right wingers make the lives of transgender people more difficult, deliberately or otherwise?

        Comment Hidden ( show )
    • Neesa

      That's not true, why have I been attacked so many times just for being feminine? Men aren't being feminized, they're simply being who they actually want to be instead of what gender doctrine dictates. No one thinks masculinity is evil, it's just the opposite that's told, that boys can't play with dolls or wear makeup because "that's for girls". You're embarrassing yourself.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • Inkmaster

        "why have I been attacked so many times just for being feminine?" In what way have you been attacked and by whom? "No one thinks masculinity is evil" There are literally hundreds of articles claiming that masculinity is evil. It comes up in the news, in entertainment media, everywhere.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
  • SweetNLite

    The only people that 'obsess' over these issues are leftists that use the issues in a way to smear those they hate. Done purely for political purposes. And I imagine a 'right-winger' to you is anyone that disagrees with you.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Jem_Shadow

      No, there's lots of moaning and bitching from right wingers about men being too feminine. Look how popular pundits like Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro acted when Harry Styles wore a dress.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
    • Neesa

      Oh really, so why then is there so much fear mongering about "feminizing males" among right wing commentators?

      Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    So then why is it that a lot of right wing media has obsessed over the notion of men being feminized and women being masculinized? Or condoning mocking men for being feminine? I never said it's wrong to like traditional gender roles, I was pointing out that conservatives have a derogatory attitude toward both feminine men and trans women a lot of the time, meaning that it's not possible for feminine males to be okay in their eyes. Look at how common it's been for parents to deny boys who develop a interest in dressing up or playing with dolls. I also never said anything about convincing men to be feminine. Femboys are naturally feminine because that's just how they're inclined. They're often gay too.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Jem_Shadow

    Why do they complain about it then? Why is it a big deal to many people for boys to play with dolls?

    Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    Yes they do. Masculine and feminine norms are harmful.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    Ironically, your dismissal of children not fitting gender norms is part of what influences kids being considered transgender. Boys who like wearing dresses for instance, can't just be gender non conforming, they're now being assumed to be transgender.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    Gender isn't real. What solid reality is there to the idea that only men should be into cars and building and the only women should wear lipstick and dresses?

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • LloydAsher

      Because that's how society developed around different jobs and specializations and how the different sexes went about said workload.

      Stereotypes are formed from a basic truth.

      Males are more materialistic. We tend to gravitate towards physical things. Growing up this leads to us playing with toy trucks and action figures.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • Neesa

        Most people have gender norms forced on them. Many aspects of femininity and masculinity are harmsul.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
          -
        • LloydAsher

          Baby monkeys gravitated towards the same toys!

          The baby boy monkeys played with trucks and the baby girl monkeys played with dolls. You dont get more primal psychology than monkeys.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    "I ignored it because it's not relevant to what I wanted to address. I don't care about TERFS."

    This isn't about you though, it's about trends in right wing media. Conservatives have been giving credit and praise to TERFs for their anti trans rhetoric, despite the fact that TERF's say gender norms are bad and designed to oppress women. They're only giving them platforms because they hate trans people.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
      -
    • Clunk42

      You can praise someone for something they say while still deriding them for the other things they say.

      For example: Ethiopian gun laws are both good and bad. If you want to own a mini-gun or a 22. bead rifle, you can, which is good, but you cannot own both a 22. bead rifle and a mini-gun, due to their one gun limit, which is bad.

      Comment Hidden ( show )
        -
      • Neesa

        They don't though.

        Comment Hidden ( show )
          -
        • Clunk42

          They do, though. I don't think there's a single group that actually likes TERFs besides TERFs themselves. The left doesn't like them because they're trans-exclusionary, and the right doesn't like them because they're radical feminists. They are, however, preferable to normal radical feminists to the right, so are worthy of less criticism.

          Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    It doesn't matter how many children do or don't play with dolls. The point is that SOME boys do, as are some girls masculine. Gender norms are forced on many people they don't fit, gender isn't even a real thing, unlike sex.

    "Boys not playing with dolls or putting on make up IS how boys want to be generally." Yeah, not boys who are more feminine though. It's a real thing that has always existed. It's funny that you say no one cares about males being feminine, then you outright call femininity in males bad. Your lack of self awareness is staggering.

    Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    Actually it doesn't because like I said, it's generally femininity that men are being discouraged from. I noticed you completely ignored the very common example of parents not letting their sons play with dolls and makeup because they associate femininity in men bad, or that it means they're going to be gay. Then there's also the ideas of what makes a "real man", something which many men are simply not going to be able to obtain. Men aren't told it's bad to wear a t-shirt and jeans. That's just not an issue people have to face. So saying that people don't care about boys being feminine clearly isn't true. They care a lot, otherwise boys would just be allowed to express themselves as they please.

    You also ignored that part about TERFs. If you think gender norms are good, why do you suddenly ally yourselves with feminists who straight up say that gender binary needs to be destroyed? Just because they don't like trans people?

    Comment Hidden ( show )
  • Neesa

    Also, the public restroom issue is a fantasy problem. It's been debunked many times as making no sense.

    Comment Hidden ( show )