Non binary

There's non binary children in a elementary school in my hometown. If you never taught kids that non binary was a thing do you believe all 12 of these kids would wake up at the same time and all decide they wanted to be called a they or a them? Would they have come up with this on their own independently?

I dont believe all these kids would have came to this conclusion on their own without outside influence.

Dont derail I dont ever do this but Ill delete your comment if you go off topic.

Simply put:

Would all kids come up with non binary on their own?

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  • I'd say no, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Back when being gay was basically unheard of (in certain places anyway), there were loads of people who felt different somehow but didn't know why. It was only when homosexuality became more mainstream, and they became more exposed to it, that they realised that that's why they've always felt so different, because they were gay. But otherwise they never would've.

    I don't think all these kids are non-binary though, I think they're just experimenting with figuring themselves out, and what's wrong with that? Obviously if they say they want to undergo any surgery or anything, that's when a psychologist should get involved and figure out if they really are non-binary or whether they just want to fit in to a category, or feel part of the lgbt community, or stand out from the crowd, or whatever. But if they're just experimenting with gender roles and nonconforming fashion, then that's harmless and they'll probably grow out of it eventually anyway.

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  • Theres no possible way all 12 of those kids would have independently reached that conclusion on their own. Had they have never been taught it was a thing it would have never happened.

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  • Of course not, just like if you never taught them how a boy or girl is supposed to dress and act, they wouldn't know that either.
    Kids are kinda non-binary by default. they just do their own thing without worrying whether it makes them masculine or feminine.

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    • Not true. In studies done with apes boy apes perfered to play with trucks while girl apes perfered dolls. Why this is important is that apes dont understand the gender projection that humans use. Thus it's a unbiased sample group for stereotypes of apes (which humans are apart of)

      The brains of boys and girls are different. They would sort themselves out naturally.

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  • I didnt vote cuz it's somewhere in between

    Before I type the rest, I wanna say: I do believe non-binary people exist, it is real and it can and does make some people feel more comfortable

    I dont believe, however, that all of those kids are really non-binary

    It is just a fact that elementary kids are still young and discovering themselves

    Not that some of those kids won't grow up to really be non-binary, cuz some will, I'm sure of it

    But the other thing is that kids mimic what they see adults and other kids do

    Gen y and gen z are the influences for these kids, and the majority of NB people come from gen y and z

    So these kids may identify like this because older ones are

    But I have had this thought about A few people before: If you didn't know what trans was, would you have felt comfortable as is?

    I have trans friends/family members, and that thought crosses my mind every once in a while

    So, the media obviously can influence children with anything, honestly

    But with transgender ideals, it can both help and hurt the youth that is influenced

    It can help the trans people relate and find out how to help themselves find peace and not hate their bodies

    But it can hurt cis people that begin to question their identity; and people who are already having their bodies, then point to "I must be trans" even though it had nothing to do with gender in the first place

    But then I think: Where is the line?

    Cuz if the person really /is/ more comfortable using they/them pronouns, then aren't they non-binary?

    At the end of the day, I usually say "live and let live" and leave it at that

    I have nihilistic and hedonistic beliefs, which helps me get through spirals and rabbit holes or what opinions or stances I should have

    And hedonism is about having fun in this life and not dwelling on the sad parts of life or the confusing ones in this case

    There doesn't have to be a line, I guess

    I mean, who ever decided that there has to be rules to what labels we use to be just a little more comfortable?

    So, I live and let live

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  • There’s no such thing as non binary. This is a nonsense idea created by idiots with nothing better to do with their time. We are all born with a gender, either male or female. Some people may not like the gender assigned to them by nature and some may artificially change it through modern medical interventions. But we are all born with a vagina or a penis and bollocks. This is what determines our gender. Not some hypothetical nonsense that someone can identify as something they are not or choose to identify as having no gender at all.

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    • Gender is NOT determined by our parts. You're thinking about someone's sex. Sex is determined by your physical body. Gender is determined by your psychology. If you don't even know the difference between sex and gender, you clearly haven't done any research on the matter whatsoever. It makes you look a bit silly.

      Second, we are not all born with either a vagina or a penis. Some people are born with both, or neither. If you define someone's sex (or gender for that matter) based on wether they have a vagina or penis, what would you call someone who doesn't have either? Or both?

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      • You are so wrong you thick fuck wit. Sex is actually the physical act of intercourse or other sexual acts, but it has slipped into common use to in modern days as a slang replacement for the word gender. Somebody’s gender is the physical gender built into their body ie male or female.

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      • I have XXY chromosomes I am a male with klienfelters syndrome. In no way do I define myself as being an ounce of a female, dispite some cells in my breast tissues coded otherwise.

        It's a purely psychological occurance as someone with klienfelters would logically be more inclined to transition due to the physical attributes of klienfelters. Ironically people with klinefelters are less likely to be transgendered than the normal population, leading to my conclusion that its solely a psychological issue.

        It's about what you are. I am a male with a chromosomal issue making me intersex. I find people calling our kind hermaphrodites as highly insulting.

        True hermaphrodites are extremely rare. In the grand majority of those rare cases either one or both of the genetalia are completely non functional. At that point the true hermaphrodite has the completely free opinion to be whatever sex they want as it's a complete coin flip. Though it's not on the population percentage of the transgender community as the vast majority are either males or females that believe due to their psychological condition that they are the other sex.

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        • If I gave you the impression that I was implying that intersex people are more likely to be trans or non-binary, then I apologize. That wasn't my intention at all.

          I brought it up because I'm hoping it will get people to think about gender instead of just yelling "penis = boy, vagina = girl".

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          • No need for the apology. I dont have paper skin. What I was implying that it's an all too often association that people who identify as non binary or transgenderism lump people who are medically intersex into the community as well.

            I hold the opinion that transgenderism is a mental disorder than needs to be treated as such. The same how anorexia needs to be treated. Not through reinforcing the sufferers perceptions, but to accept the reality of their own existance.

            There are many transgendered individuals that regret transitioning and are offered zero support in what they thought their community was open to. Rather they are treated as traitors and treated like heretics in a cult.

            I have no problem with people who transition from their own free will and accord. What I do not like is people giving the perception of being trans as being a novel state of being rather than disorder that needs to be reconciled with every therapeutic and psychological method first before making their own personal decision (after their brain fully develops) on making a physical transition (that once again will not change what they are physically)

            I also dislike the notion that we should be teaching highly impressionable children that this is a "cool" disorder to have.

            It's important to me that the individual gets actual help rather than being reinforced by outside influences into what they might not be 100% invested in.

            In my opinion you can be the most feminine boy on the planet but that alone doesnt make you a female by virtue of your perception.

            Perception doesnt change reality. Gender is a concept that people need to used when pertaining to existential concepts. Rather than applied to oneself.

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            • Society used to think that being gay was a mental disorder. We spent decades if not centuries trying to "cure" gay people. Nowadays it's more accepted than ever to be gay. Most psychologists will agree that being gay isn't a mental disorder.

              Being transgender isn't a mental disorder anymore than being intersex is. Transgender women are women who happened to be born with a penis, just like you are a man who happened to be born with XXY chromosomes.
              Imagine how you would feel if someone were to tell you that you're not a man. That your entire identity as a man is only a product of a mental disorder. That you need treatment so that you can "accept reality" and live as "the woman that you were always meant to be", based only on the fact that you have 2 X chromomes and because "that's how we treat a completely different disorder too".

              I know from first hand experience that the OVERWHELMING majority of trans people don't regret their transition. I've followed transgender forums for years and the few times that someone did announce that they were de-transitioning, they were ALWAYS met with positivity and well-wishes.

              Ofcourse we shouldn't be teaching children that being trans is cool. But we should teach children that being trans is a possibilty. Because if we don't, transgender kids won't get the treatment that they need in time, and it will lead years or even decades of suffering.
              We might disagree on what that treatment is, but I think you'd agree with me that they should get treatment.

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    • Non-binary is fake.

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  • No it's not normal and it needs to stop. Children are actively being groomed to become something they are not.
    Especially in Western Europe and I assume the States.

    "You don't have to be a boy, just because you were born a boy, you can be a pretty princess..."
    That's not something you tell a child. Children are impressionable and don't know what to believe. Let them grow up and reach adulthood and then they can decide what they want to be.

    Up until that point boys are boys, girls are girls. Everything else is some fucked up perversion that we "must accept" for the sake of tolerance.

    I could go on, but I hate being told what to do and what to talk about, so that's it.

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    • This can go the other way too

      I could say: Don't tell a boy that "just cuz he was born a boy means that he can be into monster trucks and action figures"

      Why is *this* not "brainwashing", but the other *is*?

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      • Because it's NATURAL for boys to grow up as boys and girls as girls.

        It's not brainwashing, it's the norm.

        I can't believe I have to explain this. Everything really is going to shit.

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        • But these things you describe as "natural" change all the time

          Dresses were invented for men

          Pink used to represent what blue does, and was the colour for men

          And what about the people that feel more natural doing the things that the opposite sex does?

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          • Its not just about a guy wearing a dress which I think is really weird but what we are talking about is a guy saying "I am neither man or woman" now we are just playing make believe and making the rules as we go. Society needs some structure. You cant be neither man or woman.

            Thats not how it works. Thats like saying I have a cat but its really a dog and arguing that its a cat because it identifys that way. Its so goofy it makes my head hurt

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            • But why does it matter if others identify that way? How does that affect you??

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  • Definitely not, it's pushed on them and needs to stop. If there are marches against it or something, count me in

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  • only 2 genders/sexes

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  • Language is always changing. Sure, maybe thirty years ago people used "sex" and "gender" interchangeably, but times change and so does language.
    Also, doesn't EVERY word mean whatever someone told ANYONE it means?

    The non-binary kids that OP mentions aren't just jumping on some trenty bandwagon. There's no such thing as a "non-binary trend".
    they're KIDS. They're experimenting with their identities. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's a good thing. I bet you that atleast 10 of those kids will come to the conclusion that they are in fact not non-binary.

    Oh, and nobody expects anyone to completely rearrange language, just pronouns in a few cases.

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    • ‘Also, doesn't EVERY word mean whatever someone told ANYONE it means?‘

      You really are even more stupid than you originally portrayed yourself. If any word meant something different depending on what someone else told you it meant we would cease to have a functional language because all words would mean different things to different people.

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  • No, they wouldn't. The problem now is that once a child feels different there's an hoard of people labelling him/her. We all feel different at some point of our lives and if we are not allowed to deal with it then we quickly associate it with some label to fit in. Like if it's necessary to have a label.
    I'm not saying or implying that transpeople are a hoax. I am just telling that the amount of children/teenagers identifying as nonbinary/trans etc.. is pretty abnormal and that the media and the transactivists have a lot to do with it.

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  • the current rhetoric, ideology is confusing parents and children alike.
    Children, in elementary school, are still in their formative years. Their bodies are forming, their self-image/self-concept is still forming, and their psyche is very much in need of guidance as well as it's own internal direction (who am I? what am I about? what do I love/hate/etc? what I enjoy doing? how am I supposed to be? who do I want to be?). And that only continues into their teenage years.

    So how is it, a concept that is as radical and progressive as non-binary gender (or 3rd gender in some ancient peoples) become commonplace where 12 children alone in the same school would suddenly identify this way?

    The people who are forwarding this movement along really are missing the science on this one. Something that you think would be so loud and important to listen to, considering everyone proclaiming to do so in the past year.

    There are literally anatomical processes driving our bodies development as male or female, to become man, or woman. Societal or parental influence/dictation aside, a boy's hormones will start surging at a certain point, he will start acting differently in a way that could only be described as boyish, aggressive, dominant, etc - qualities later in teenage years that could be described as a drive or sex drive; without these features or characteristics of being male, how would the species procreate if a male did not act on his urges?
    Similarly, a female's or woman's tendency to be more in touch with nurturing, receptive, intuitive or emotional qualities fosters women to become the potential caregivers and nurturers they need to be as mothers.

    The point I'm making is that these qualities all start developing at a young age - automatically - biologically - so how is it children of a young age could suddenly come up with an idea that is not the case with them? That they are not a boy or a girl? And that something that is at the root of transgender individuals (gender dysphoria) is now, assumably, prevalent?

    Your gender not 'fitting right' is not some hat you get to just try on. It's a big fucking deal, and it should be. For people who truly are trans it plagues them their entire life until they decide to take action and become more of the person they feel they are. But for the vast majority of the population, some 99%, there is no issues.

    What parents, and even teachers alike (who should have as little as role in this compared to the parents) is just simply let nature take it's course. It's that simple. Raise them with the expectation that they are what you, doctors, and science say they are: a boy or girl. Raise them with all the traditional expectations, but feel free to leave the door open for them to be curious about other things. Of course, there is the risk if they do something unexpected (boys playing with dolls, etc) things will take a different course, there might be heartbreak involved, (being shamed by friends, etc) or he might just lose interest anyways, or not. Maybe he'll grow up to be gay! And that's totally cool too, but it's a hard fact of life for anyone who grows up gay or lesbian and shows interest in things not expected of their gender.
    But actually being non-binary? Like how do you even begin with this? How do you even try to teach anything about this to a student or a child without realizing the full consequences of your actions down the road? And for this to happen at the elementary level? Instead of something you learn about wayyyy later, like in sex-ed class in high school when children's minds are much more formed, their identity is much more formed and they have a growing, stronger sense of who they are (albient, it's high school, so everything can be confusing, but a 17 year old could grasp and understand this more than a 5 or 10 year old)

    There are litererally gay men I know who are well into their 20's, and I had seen them online for years and they identified as gay men the entire fucking time. They came out of the damn closet, just like I did. Just like every other gay/lesbian person, and trust me I think it's hardest for gay men to come out. I think we deal with the most shame/stimga. It's hard work to come out of the closet, to deal with that, to have that courage.
    Now? It's like people are just saying they are non-binary or whatever like some hat they are just trying on. Like no big deal. It makes no sense. It goes against the science of anatomically who they have been their whole life so far. And more importantly, who they've said they are. Like, for me with my own background, I would think it's immensely courageous and hard for a trans person to come out or change who they are. This is not some simple thing you do on a flip of a coin. It is life altering, life changing. There should be no blame on 'the system' for raising boys to be boys or girls to be girls and trans people got mixed up in there somehow. It's a hard path to walk, I know this being a gay man growing up in a straight world. But you get over it. It's just Life. You understand you're in the minority and there's very little that could have changed that from happening or ever happening. Accept the path, move on. Not blame the system and expect the system to make others complaint to make you feel better about your own path in life - all those cisgender, straight couples aren't doing something horribly wrong. In fact, it's an act of heterosexual sex that gave birth to any trans individual, so there's an interesting lack of gratitude when accusations of transphobia and cis or hetero-normativity go flying around.

    The whole movement is just pisses me off and makes me hate being part of my own community. The fact that it's reaching mainstream is very bothersome. And for what I know, being non-binary is historically a very, very small portion of the transgender population. Most transgender individuals prefer one sex over the other, and would like to be/are in that process of transition. So again, with this perspective in mind, it literally makes no sense for this to be in classrooms or in households at all, except at the higher levels of education (HS/UNI) and even then, it should be taught that this is NOT a commonplace thing. The commonplace thing IS to be male or female, that for 99+% of the population sex/gender IS binary, the world would be a very different place if that wasn't true.

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  • It used to be age 10 or 11 before most people even thought about addressing sex/gender to our children.

    I'm sure some people thought that was too early or too late. I thought it was about right. Up until that point most children were just treated like children very little separation by gender as far as sports, games, or what you could or couldn't do.

    Part of the reason it has to be addressed earlier today is because of the acceptance of the alternate life styles. Children are inquisitive as they see more male/male or female/female relationships maybe even grow up in that environment, which btw is still not the normal, they are going to question it. The answer to that quest without sounding like your homophobic comes off as almost supporting or encouraging.

    You can't put the genie back in the bottle I wish there was an easy answer like wait till you're 20 then ask again.

    Think back for most kids they were teased when they first started getting interested in the opposite sex so if it's okay and just as cool and fun to play with the same sex then why put yourself up for all the harassment to show interest in the opposite sex.

    Then if you find out your body responds to the same sex( most will) then there must be something wrong with me. I must be a guy trapped in a girl's body because I like being with girls more than boys. Or vice versa.

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  • Outside sources definitely play a role in shaping what we believe in, but that doesnt change who we are deep down inside.

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  • 2045 US president: my fellow Americans.... I identify as batman.

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  • Yeah if they spend a lot of time on tumblr, or tiktok nowadays I guess, that doesn't surprise me at all. That and they probably have very liberal parents and possibly watches anime. I've noticed a big correaltion between anime and being either trans or non-binary. It's basically just getting obsessed with your opposite gender anime fave to the point of wanting to wear their skin since you can't ever meet them.

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  • No, they wouldn't have come up on this on their own. They likely got it into their heads because of (social)/ media and/ or their parents.

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