Mechanism of "massive voting fraud" claim by d. trump identified:

Come on, duderino, it's not hard to understand.

Since Trump won in Utah, that state obviously ran it's mail-in voting system correctly. The fact that he didn't do well with the mail-in vote in other states is proof that the system there was corrupted.

The way the Democrats have been constantly telling people to vote by mail while Trump has been constantly ranting that mail-in voting is fraudulent (except when he votes that way in Florida) is completely irrelevant.

English common law is the basis of the American legal system. But that said, the top level, Constitutional Law, is not flexible in the least. Trump is blowing smoke as all narcissists do when they have temper tantrums.

For the most part im pretty sure changing a law doesn't change the verdicts passed when the law was different. Like if you're arrested for selling weed and they lower the criminal penalties for doing that you're still going to face the penalty as it was written when you were convicted.

whenever someone wants to talk politics at me i usually tell em to shut the fuck up

but if not i ask em what their side gits wrong or what the other side does better

if they cant come up with a coherent answer then i tell em theyre a biased idiot and its not worth my time to listen to em repeat the same tired shit i could hear literally anywhere

I have my biases I make them pretty clear. Everyone has a bias and people need to know how to interpret this bias into the current conversation.

From my point of view its beneficial for both sides to check the votes in a non partisan way. Now the suit has alleged it was done in a partisan way. Even if it might be bunk biden supporters need to be on it to see if there is any credence for this and if it's TRUE for the the sake of the voter trust they must turn over the information. Same for trump but there has yet to be a major glitch that favored trump. So call me suspicious of the circumstances.

Did you just quote Trevor Noah? Not cheating everywhere isn't a good enough argument that you can't cheat anywhere.

There's actually been a big push for Democrat senators to unseat I believe 6 Republican senators whose time was coming, I believe it was more than enough to give them the Senate, along with the House they already owned and the presidency if Biden won

As for how it's played out, I dunno

America has had it since the mid to late 1800s i cant remember exact year and they have 5 states that regularly vote almost 100% by mail

The trumpers dont know how their own system works which is why they dont notice that this is (with some obvious allowances for covid) how every other election has been run

They dont understand that their guy told them to vote in person and bidens told his voters to postal vote to stay safe so of course trump was ahead on election day and of course bidens votes are counted after. Some states arent allowed to count the mail in votes til after polls close. Theyre so widely uneducated in their own system lmfao

The Associated Press crunched some numbers a few days ago. They looked at the 376 counties in the USA with the highest current rates of Coronavirus infections, and how those counties voted.

93% of those counties voted for Trump.

I can't imagine anyone with any intelligence finding that shocking, but I always find it darkly amusing when there's evidence that those holding political views which I consider idiotic just generally behave like fools.

https://apnews.com/article/counties-worst-virus-surges-voted-trump-d671a483534024b5486715da6edb6ebf

Question? If those affidavits really exist - why have they not been presented in a court of law with the poll workers who saw the issue? Seriously?

At this point most of the claims by the Republicans and Trump have been dismissed by the courts due to the lack of evidence or worse that the claims only consisted of hearsay.

As for how the poll observers were treated. There is no evidence or suggestion that the poll workers from any party (Democrat, Republican, or Independent) was treated any differently.

1 Judge in Pennsylvania ruled that the observers were just there to observe the process and did not warrant the right to be close enough to independently audit each ballot (close enough to see the details).

Another Judge in Pennsylvania ruled in the Republicans favor and asked the polling location involved to allow the observers within 6 feet as long as they followed proper CIVID-19 precautions. So your "20 ft" case was already decided in the Republicans favor - and to the best of my knowledge only affected 1 voting precinct.

The case involving the claim that they were not allowing Republican case workers fell apart when the Republican's admitted in court that there were in fact Republican observers at that polling location.

I'm personally surprised that the Judge did not toss the Republican Lawyer in jail for at least a week for bringing such a fraudulent case to his court (Lawyers have to sign and certify to the court that their claims are true).

I do expect the Judge to refer that lawyer to the State Bar association for discipline for filing a false complaint/affidavit. What the state Bar Association does it up to them; but, this most likely ends with at least a short term suspension of a law license and requirement to complete legal process and ethics courses.

I'm amazed that a person of your intelligence and reasoning in other postings has not researched the process and the various allegations on the various fact checking sites; before you post them here (and possibly elsewhere).

As for timing of election results: You do understand that in most states counties control the hours they operate the voting precincts after election day to count the remaining vote. They may well shut down between 9PM and Midnight (or whatever). However, in most states they then send their "Partial" results to the State. The State than has a validation process and releases the results sometimes later to the Press. That explains why a county can stop at midnight and the results not appear for several hours (or the next day).

Please educate yourself on the voting process. After-all, Intelligence is the continued ability to learn.

Lol nope just cos dear leader says something or you read it on qanon doesnt make it real

Not exactly. In all large elections there is always some level of fraud and mistakes.

There are no perfect elections: There are only "Fair" elections.

Since the advent of electronic scanning and voting the number of fraud and mistakes has clearly shrunk to insignificant levels.

You have to go back prior to somewhere about 30 years ago when; for example, Chicago was run by a political machine that guaranteed their candidates won.

The year after they started using electronic scanners for the ballots it ended big time. The government was able to analyze the scanner data - and fond many cases where the same ballot was run 50 - several hundred times.

This was also about the same time that registered voter precinct voting list became electronic; and you could compare the voting list to people who had died.

Federal Election Fraud changes soon followed and a fairly large number of Chicago Election officials and pole workers went to jail and others avoided jail but were fined into bankruptcy.

Several other cities soon saw smaller cases... and everyone wised up that they could now catch most of the cheaters. The initial Chicago results warranted a "60 Minutes" segment; which did not catch the follow-up about dead people voting.

Electronic scanning and comperized voting has cleaned up the kind of election fraud that used to exist in this country 50 years ago in certain areas.

But, there are always a small number of individual cases; and also a small number of just errors in the process. The numbers are now small enough that unless a state wide election is decided by less than several hundred votes that fraud and mistakes will not affect the election results.

Now this is interesting: I thought I'd look back and see what became of this thread now that things are essentially legally settled (I see no bases for any of the current appeals).

I believe that you misunderstand what a cured ballot is.

Most states allow and specify a process by which an "incorrectly" submitted absentee ballot can be "cured" for certain routine administrative errors; and for "provisional ballots" that were cast on election day where the person casting them did not have adequate documentation with them when they were at the polls to demonstrate that they were in fact legally eligible to vote. In all cases the ballot was cast on time.

Most common errors is for absentee ballots someone might forget to write their address on the outer envelope (or a security envelope). Perhaps they forgot to date it.

The states that allow "curing" allow the Election Clerk (or their office) to contact the voter on the absentee ballot and allows them to correct the information on the outer envelope by a certain date. Some states allow the Election Clerk (or their office) to fill in obvious missing information if they can easily determine it (in Wisconsin and per instructions requested by the Republicans in 2016 - the Clerks were given the authority to add the address of a person or their witness if it could be easily determined by public records: example I witnessed my wife's absentee ballot. If I had forgot to write in my address - the clerks could have written it in here in Wisconsin as its easily verified that I (her husband) lives at the same address as she does.

For the case of "provisional ballots" filled out at the polls. Those ballots are put aside and are not counted unless the person appears again with the proper documentation that they live where they claimed. Some states allow as much as the end of the week for people to show up at the clerks office with better ID and documentation so that the ballot can be counted by the end of the week (1 day to 3 days depending on the state).

So curing a ballot does not change any votes on the ballot. It just either completes missing administrative information or validates that a person is in fact an appropriate legal citizen for "same day" registration and voting requirements.

A reality is that in fact many "uncured" ballots are never counted because they were not cured in time.

In all cases State Laws or established election procedures exist that allow the curing of ballots in these situations. There is nothing illegle about it and nothing to challenge in court as long as the clerks followed the procedures.

I hope that clears things up,

You are correct. I posted above that there are only "Fair" elections, not perfect elections.

Most issues are in fact mistakes made by the election clerks and poll workers. There is always a very small amount of identified fraud (even if its only a few votes per state - and most of those are from elderly people who made mistakes as they are loosing mental capabilities).

Now most of this is caught up front, and likely in a month or so the states will likely start publishing the number of ballots submitted that were rejected and not counted. I suspect this number will be in the Several Million for the entire USA.

The good things though is that there are groups that do post elections audits on ballots and research identities in question. In the most recent times these organizations report that the identified amount of mistakes and isolated fraud combined is usually in the range of 0.01% of votes cast, with a high of 0.02% (at least according to an article I read before the election).

Based on my reading, I understand that the USA has one of the better voting systems in the world as far as minimizing the number of mistakes and fraud (USA ranks with some of the lowest % of errors and fraud).

Again - I believe you are mistaken in several cases.

I'm not aware of any state or territory in the USA that requires all ballots to be counted by election night. Some states have laws that say all ballots must be either received by the clerks office by close of business day on election day or received at the polls by close of the polls on election night. Some states allow certain absentee and overseas/military ballots to arrive after election day.

All states have laws to have votes counted in a timely manner - and usually have a specified date (unless a judge extends the date). Then there is a review (canvas) report that is due later for the certification process. The canvasing occurs after everyone has had a good nights sleep (or two) and all records and vote counts from various sources are reviewed and retotalled. Its not uncommon for them to find minor reporting errors from the initial count (switched digits, a machine vote total not included, etc.).

I have seen no evidence of that any of the Pennsylvania laws (or other state laws) regarding when votes were due and when they were counted (lots of allegations - but no actual evidence and many of the allegations were quickly debunked).

Now in regards to Pennsylvania Constitution and law that only the legislature can determine when the votes are due. You might have a case, and might not. Courts do have rights to intervene in certain cases if there is enough justification and other rights are at stake. So the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that to prevent violation of other voting rights that given the situation with absentee ballots and Covid-19 that several extra days would be allowed for the return of absentee ballots.

The Republicans appealed that Ruling all the way to the US Supreme court before the election; and the US Supreme court denied hearing the case before the election; however, would consider hearing the case after the election IF these late votes were significant in the election. They did not say that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court was wrong in their decision. Just that it would likely be worth considering if there was adequate justification and violation of other rights involved, or not.

So, before the election there was indeed the potential that these late absentee ballots "might" be ruled unconstitutional.

However, the number of ballots in question from the election is far to small to effect the result of the Pennsylvania state Presidential election (I don't recall the exact numbers; but, my vague memory is that these "late" ballots make up between 5 - 7% of the Biden/Harris margin of victory in Pennsylvania (Biden clearly wins even without these votes).

As such, this issue (and question) is legally moot. There is no legal basis for this issue to ever be discussed in court. There is no court case coming, and the certification of Pennsylvania will be for Biden.

As far as your claim of significant fraud in multiple states. Where is the legal evidence (not just wild rumors without any basis in fact, or statement of people that upon analysis did not even understand the process and did not see any significant violation of process - if they say any violation at all.

Also, why is it that this alleged fraud got past all the Republican local and state election officials running these elections in so many cities, counties, and states (Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, much of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin).

By my reading multiple Judges in multiple states have soundly rejected all the so called lawsuits on election irregularities due to essentially a total lack of evidence.

Another thing you may not understand. Many of the lawyers may be talking "Fraud" outside the courtroom; but the lawsuits themselves contain statements that they are not alleging fraud and the also tell the judges that they are not alleging fraud in court. There are very severe and real legal penalties for filing false lawsuits and lying to a Judge.

What most people are really seeing is a waste of legal filings and abuse of the court system for public PR purposes. How do you expect to win in court if the actual lawsuit says that there was no fraud and the lawyer tells the judge that there was no fraud while in court. Note there are several articles out there that list these statements from the actual lawsuits filed and also report on the conversations in the courtrooms.

The press has also reported the statements of the Judges about lack of evidence and unsupported theories.

So, where is the evidence? It's already too late as the legal hearings are now essentially done, and I think the number is something like Won 2 (on election day on process regarding observers) and lost about 54 by my latest count. At least a dozen more withdrawn before they went to trail due to lack of evidence or lack of legal standing of the plaintiffs.

I suspect this might be the biggest legal looser of all time on any specific subject in the USA court system.

So far the Trump organization & supporter lawsuits claiming voter fraud or major issues have all been dismissed by judges for lack of evidence. In some cases the lawyers have admitted that their claims are in fact false, in others that they have no evidence.

A whole series of other lawsuits have been withdrawn due to lack of evidence (in Wisconin 3 different lawsuits were withdrawn today Monday Nov 16. One of them asked that the votes for the 3 largest counties that voted Democratic be tossed out because (and I'm not making this up) "in theory post election analysis might show that there was fraud" and that the proof of that statement would be presented at the trial. Proof of a statement that "in theory... might show..." is not evidence. Its a theory. Theories are not facts or evidence.

Also, allegations are not legal evidence either. Nor are affidavits without witnesses (and I understand that most of the affidavits don't even make sense of have their facts right either). A Michigan Judge stated that it was unfortunate that the Republican Poll Watchers had not attended the free training offered so that they would understand the election process that they were observing as apparently a large number of the affidavits claims of fraud were in fact normal ballot processing procedures.

Lets see where the Federal lawsuit in Pennsylvania goes. Hearing is scheduled for Tuesday Nov 17.

I'm not aware of any other active lawsuits other than the Pennsylvania one left.

If you know different let us know (and please present facts and not allegations).

As of Monday evening (Nov 16) I am only aware of 1 lawsuit outstanding; the one in Pennsylvania where the main law-firm withdrew last Friday from it. Now today the other lawyer who specializes in election law asked to withdraw as well (I'm not sure the Judge will allow that).

When the lawyers start withdrawing that tells you that there's not a lot to the case.

Stay tuned...

ps: I'm sure that a lot of Democrats break a lot of laws. So do a lot of Republicans. As for the election process: Do you understand that the poll workers tend to be made of of equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans (for obvious reasons). You would think that the Republican poll workers would see and report any fraud.

Also how is it that all those ballots had Biden for President and a lot of Republicans for lessor offices (the Republicans actually gained nationwide in almost all states). How does that happen in your scenario of fraud (like you would think if the Democrats could pull of such a fraud for the President that they should have clearly won the US Senate and gained in the US House of Representatives).