Male circumcision vs fgm

Is it weird that society generally frowns hugely upon FGM (rightly in my opinion) but doesn't bat an eyelid when it comes to a young boy having his foreskin sliced off with some weird razorblade-laden miniature guillotine before he's able to even talk?

I'm not in any way defending FGM. It's barbaric, draconian, and completely pointless, not to mention the lifelong disfigurement and mental flashbacks a woman might associate with having some of the most intimate and sensitive parts of her anatomy chopped off, but how come we don't recoil in horror in a similar fashion when a similar procedure happens to a man?

Like, don't you think a young boy being put forward by his parents to go and get his genitals mutilated before he is able to make up his mind on whether he wants to or not might be equally as mentally jarring/disfiguring to the boy?

If men and women are to be treated as equals, how about we stop circumcizing everyone, period? If us men were supposed to have no foreskin we'd be born without it!

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Comments ( 40 )
  • JellyBeanBandit

    I do agree with this. Although FGM is much worse than male circumcision (and so some will say that it's therefore stupid to compare the two), the principle is exactly the same (so it is a fair comparison). They're both painful and performed against someone's will for absolutely no medical benefits, just for cultural/religious reasons.

    Plus the main reason male circumcision doesn't seem that bad is because it's done on someone who doesn't have the ability to beg it to stop, or to describe afterwards the agony it caused them. And people view this as a good thing, as if it means that the pain isn't that bad just because the baby is incapable of letting them know how bad it is. That's just burying your head in the sand to prevent you from realising the truth about circumcision, that it's barbaric torture.

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    • LloydAsher

      I'm sorry do you remember your vaccinations as a baby? I'm sure that hurt like a bitch.

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      • JellyBeanBandit

        Are you serious? Getting an injection is absolutely nothing compared to cutting off a part of you with a knife while you're fully conscious. Besides, I specifically mentioned in that comment that one reason why circumcisions are immoral is because they offer absolutely no medical benefits. But vaccinations do, they're vital to a person's lifelong health, so the same principle doesn't apply to them.

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        • LloydAsher

          Kinda does. Short term pain for long term gain. Like removing the appendix. The appendix probably wont cause problems... but removing it doesnt cause harm. Same as circumcisions on babies.

          Not saying it's not a sucky situation for the baby. But well it's on the parent to make other life changing choices for the kid. Circumcision isnt any different.

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          • JellyBeanBandit

            Short term pain for long term gain applies to vaccinations alright, but not to circumcisions, since there's no long term gain there to be had. Circumcisions not causing harm isn't a benefit, besides sometimes they do cause harm. Some people have had their penises ruined for life from a botched circumcision. You might argue that it's extremely rare for that to happen, but one is too many when there's absolutely no benefit to gain from doing it.

            Circumcisions are different. They are a permanent cosmetic body modification, no different to tattoos. And it's illegal to force tattoos onto children because it goes against their human rights to bodily autonomy. Circumcisions are just treated differently for no other reason than tradition and the fear of offending people.

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          • Sanara

            Also its not good to remove your appendix unless you actually have problems with it. It helps to recover after disease by giving good bacteria's. There is no comparing something done of medical necessity, to something done for religion or culture

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            • LloydAsher

              Makes it easier to clean. Especially for the people who are cleaning you until you learn to clean. It's just a bit of skin. It's not ripping off an ear or anything.

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      • Sanara

        I remember getting several vaccines in my life, and none of them were very painful (some causes aching in my arm afterwards, but never severe pain, I'm sure its nothing compared to what people have during circumcision). Vaccines prevent deadly diseases and have been proven to be very effective at that, it also protects people who cannot take the vaccine for health reasons if most people around them have taken it. In the few cases someone needs to be circumcised for medical reason, circumcision is okay (and thats the scenario that may be somewhat comparable with vaccines, circumcising for culture/religion is not comparable at all), but they should get anesthesia/painkillers if possible. Parents shouldn't have the right to make permanent body decisions to their child, another person, unless that choice is needed for the kid themself. The person it it actually done to, is the one who should have the choice

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  • 1WeirdGuy

    Im circumcised I didnt circumcise my son. I looked up how they did it before making a decision and they strap them down and slice their foreskin off with no pain killers or anything while being fully conscious. Ill never allow that to happen to my kids. I dont care how old they are.

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    • Any woman I have a son with who wants to get him circumcized will be labelled a child abuser in my eyes and I will lose all attraction I previously had for her!

      If he chooses to self-inflict the decision to get circumsized upon himself at a later date, I shall eat humble pie, but I would question his mental state before he goes through with it. I can't fathom why any fully grown, sane man would grant a stranger permission to mutilate his penis.

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      • 1WeirdGuy

        Yeah if my son wants to get circumsized later I'll pay for it fully and get him the best doctor I can.

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        • LloydAsher

          I see it as the same as a preemptive removal of an appendix. Sure it might work out, but it really doesnt change anything if you get it removed.

          It's so minimal that I dont see it as a heavy burden.

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          • 1WeirdGuy

            In my opinion its 90% cosmetic

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            • LloydAsher

              That's fair. Still I'm from a Finnish family and it would just be weird if one kid isnt circumcised.

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      • LloydAsher

        Dear god it's a choice for the parents to make. Its not slicing off the god damn clitoris. Plus they are a baby, being born probably hurt like a bitch, dont want to pump a baby full of anesthetics on the off chance they have an allergic reaction and die. Plus you dont remember shit until maybe two years old.

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        • SmokesTheScrapper

          Well, I remember a lot of shit when I was a baby.

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          • LloydAsher

            No you dont. You dont remember anything until maybe if you are incredibly lucky at 6 months.

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            • SmokesTheScrapper

              How do you know? You are not me. There are some stories my mother told me back then and I can actually remember how they happened. Not perfectly, always in short snippets, but still.

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  • Curiouskitten444

    I agree that circumcision regardless of gender is fucked, especially non-consentual circumcision 🙃

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  • Lusty-Argonian

    Circumcision is a disgusting and awful practice. Modify an adults or a woman's body without their permission and everyone goes crazy. Do it to a baby male and no one bats an eye. It's completely fucked up.

    People like to talk about health benefits for it but hate to tell you I've been with several guys who weren't circumcised and 1. It feels better for both partners
    2. Sanitation isn't actually that hard it's called take a shower.

    People say oh something might go wrong though yea you might get ingrown toenails but you don't remove the bad bits till AFTER it happens you don't remove the entire plate at birth to prevent something that probably won't happen to you. It irritates the heck out of me

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  • Sanara

    Both are terrible and should be banned, at least unless its done on a consenting adult, rather than a child with no choice. But I think women tend to have more actual health issues and long term pain from it, which is why we consider it worse

    I am fully for a law that bans parents from circumcising the kids (unless its medically needed), and the parents should go to prison if they do after that law is implemented. Parents have no right to cause lasting damage to their children. And there also is a lot of pain involved, no proof a baby feels less pain than an adult. And I have seen footage of someone who were circumcised in adult age, they seemed to be in extreme pain

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  • PurpleHoneycomb

    From my understanding, male circumcision is more of a cultural thing that varies from country to country. The countries that do practice it are seeing a slow decline in the rate of parents who chose to have the surgery done on their child. The issue in countries with a high circumcision rate is that MOST men that get the surgery don't mind that they were circumcised. To them, that's just what their penis looks like.

    In areas where circumcision is common (such as the rural United States) people will often find uncircumcised penises unattractive and unusual. If most men and women are used to seeing circumcised ones, and in fact prefer them, then obviously a parent will want their child to "fit in" when he eventually starts dating.

    In countries that DON'T usually circumcise male children, the surgery is usually reserved for very religious families. There's also the rare case where it needs to be done for medical reasons. In places like the United Kingdom, hardly anyone is circumcised.

    The only medically relavent downsides of circumcision are:
    1. Circumcision removes nerve ending in the penis, making sex less pleasurable for the man.
    2. Foreskin decreases friction during intercourse. Making sex more pleasant for both parties involved.
    3. There are studies that shown that being uncircumcised leads to a slightly larger penis when at full erection. (Although not by much.) Scar tissue/skin tightening is the culprit for this.

    As said previously, circumcision is seeing a steady decline. Eventually it will even be seen as weird for men to be circumcised in the United States. By the time it happens, we'll all either be dead or too old to care about sex.

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    • LloydAsher

      The first point I would consider good because you last longer in bed. The second point is solved with good ol fashioned lube. Thirdly slightly isnt that noticeble in decrease.

      Not rejecting your points, just my observation on the downsides of circumcision. Not mutilation in my book. Hell I'm not even religious and I'm going to get my son circumcised, mainly because I've met too many females who hated the look of uncircumcised penises. That's enough to clip a bit of skin in the short term for long term gains.

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      • Lusty-Argonian

        Thats fucked up man. Give the child a choice. When they enter the age where its going to matter offer to get it done for them. Chances are they'll say no.

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        • darefu

          A few problems with waiting,

          1. It's called minor surgery when you're older, but I would think there is nothing minor about it for the guy about to do it. It's hard to get most guys to get a vasectomy much less circumcised.

          2. The healing process as a grown adult: it's a larger area to heal, you will need to handle and use it while healing. As a baby it's small area and they don't grab it and aim or play with it in other ways. Keep it clean and in a diaper for a few days and it over.

          3. It's more work for the mom or parents to pull the skin back and keep it clean for the baby/infant.

          4 it's hard enough to potty train little boys without having to teach them how to keep themselves clean. Some mons and parents can't or won't teach it, they feel like it crosses a line towards sexual contact. Especially if the child is 4 or 5 and you're still working on potty training and personal hygiene issues.

          I understand it's something you can't undo, if you get older and want it back. Maybe we should not cut and tie or clamp the umbilical cord. Leave it long enough for the child to decide, innie, outie, or hanger.

          Maybe you could try some silly putty or super glue a piece of lunch meat on for a cap. Lol

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      • PurpleHoneycomb

        I was more so going into the logistics of it all than anything else. Explaining the basics of it culturally. I brought up the points as it IS worth bringing them up. Even if they're mostly harmless drawbacks in the long run.

        That being said, I have a vasectomy so my chances of having a kid are slim.

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        • LloydAsher

          Im sterile so 0%.

          It's something so minor its gonna stay around if nothing rather than the aesthetic look of it. Earnings are millennia old, circumcisions, eh nothing is pressing for it to be changed so it wont change.

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  • LloydAsher

    Well males circumcision provides a minor benefit of keeping the penis cleaner. Plus it just makes the penis less sensitive which isnt the worst thing to have.

    FGM provides exactly zero use towards the women. In fact it mostly removes their ability to have an orgasim which is monstrous to do. As well it's often performed without anesthetic.

    So no it's not the same thing nor should be treated like the same thing.

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    • As stated before, I wasn't defending FGM in any way when I said what I said above...

      I think FGM is completely barbaric, draconian and pointless, and that it instills a deep-rooted fear in the women that recieve it due to it being excruciatingly painful and filled with lifelong consequences, none of which are of any tangible benefit.

      I also happen to think male circumcision is barbaric, draconian and pointless, especially given that a baby boy can't make up his mind as to whether he wants some creepy guy in scrubs to cleave off his foreskin or not.

      I'm almost 100% certain that if parents let their young boys make their own decisions when they'd learnt how to talk and process/express their emotions properly about whether they want it done or not, global male circumcision rates would fall dramatically and attitudes would swiftly change!

      As for the last point, how is it not the same thing? You're literally mutilating someone's genitals! Male or female, society should view it for what it is and call a spade a spade!

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      • LloydAsher

        But male circumcision really doesnt change much of anything. Are we going to call ear piercings ear mutilation? What about nose rings? Nose mutilation?

        Plus it mostly happens when you are a baby so you dont remember anything, birth would be traumatizing if you were able to remember it. Since you dont and it doesnt cause harm later on I dont see why theres so much flak about it.

        I mean it started as a religious act but that doesnt mean there wasnt benefits to the circumcision itself. Definitely easier to clean now.

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    • jackstormwater

      I lean in the direction that on principle it just shouldn’t be acceptable to make permanent surgical changes to a child’s body for cosmetic reasons unless there was some sort of disease/injury.

      That being said, most male circumcision is not comparable to most female circumcision as you said. The worst a properly performed male circumcision might do is decrease sensitivity/intensity of pleasure but the one upside to that is he might actually have more stamina/staying power in bed. And no matter what, the guy is still going to be able to finish during sex. So at the end of the day it’s not the huge deal that FGM is.

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  • Meowypowers

    My only experience is with mens' circumcision and i definitely prefer a cut vs a non cut. It looks way better and definitely smells better. I gag when a european man or peasent American brings out a nasty overflow. :cringe: No thanks!

    There is no lack of feeling with cut dicks, I know that for sure lol.

    Most people in the States that are having children are kindly fixing their son's dicks and it isn't for religious reasons at all.

    I think female clit removal is very different and only done by extremeist muslims purely so women can't have sexual pleasure. Male circumcision is nothing like that.

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    • "my only experience is with women's circumcision and I definitely prefer them sewn up and clitless vs all flappy. It looks way better and definitely smells better"

      This is exactly how ridiculously sexist you sound.

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      • Meowypowers

        Not at all. Female circumcision has nothing to do with appearance or hygine, it is the removal of the clit so that women feel no pleasure during sex.

        There are many gay men who feel how I do, and many mentally healthy men who regularly choose to get circumcised as an adult, for the above mentioned reasons. You can argue it is barbaric and archaic to perform on an unwilling child, buy YOU CAN NOT compare it to what is done to women. That is ridiculously sexist and igborant.

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        • For the last time, I agree FGM is fucking horrific okay? And yes it is perfectly acceptable to compare the two. It is also fucking horrific to slice off part of a man's intimate anatomy just on a whim like its nothing.

          This is yet another example of entitled women in society taking advantage of the freedoms afforded to them by the feminist uprising whilst at the same time depriving men of theirs. If you circumcize ANYONE without a valid medical reason or adhering to stringent surgical procedures, you are an abuser. Period. Take some accountability for your own thoughts!

          Oh wait, I forgot, accountability is your fucking kryptonite isn't it!

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          • Meowypowers

            I'm probably anti femenist in that I am pro-men getting their dick sucked. Or I am pro feminist in that all dicks are nasty? Teach me please, what a beautiful cock should look like.

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            • It's perfectly OK to have preferences but you shouldn't bodyshame guys just for being uncut. It's not about what a "beautiful cock" looks like. By all means check with a guy if he's uncut or not, but don't do all that gagging shit if he is.

              That's like me saying I like my women to weigh no more than 150 lbs and then vomiting in my mouth when a girl who's 151 lbs comes along... It sounds a lot like shaming tactics, doesn't it?

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  • hauntedbysandwiches

    Male circumcision is just removing extra skin it's not at all the same as removing the clitoris. The female kind you're referring to is comparative to cutting off the penis.

    Also it's proven to reduce infection, disease and even reduces the chance of penile cancer. It should be necessary. This is tmi but two of my exes got their foreskin removed as adults because of issues they were having down there. It was a lot harder to go through. Way better to snip the excess skin off at birth than wait as an adult.

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    • Sanara

      Im not against it when its medically needed, and when an adult decided they want it done to their own bodies not someone's else's. But every other case it is unethical. There is no proof a baby feels less pain than an adult from it. Its only that they are too helpless to protest it and cant express their pain in the same way, cannot talk and since babies cry "all the time" its not taken as seriously. Its just as cruel to do it to a baby. If anything it may be better to do as an adult because they can probably handle painkillers better, and take them to minimize pain

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    • LloydAsher

      Sounds also inconvenient to get all that extra sensations all at once, bet they weren't creaming their breeches but it was probably not the good sensations.

      Like rubbing your meat after cumming. Not a pleasant experience.

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