Is it normal for the holy to be sure of the truth w/o changing their faith?

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You know how religious people are sure that their religion's truth in itself, the whole truth and it's backed up by saying either their religion's right or your religion's right, that they can't both be right. Well I'd like very much to think like Clunk42 and like in his defence of Catholicism think Protestantism/Puritanism is right against the Catholics like he's against the Protestants and Puritans and like Clunk42 I'd like to think everything is objective truth and argue with him, given that I know I'm right and he's wrong and I should stamp out sin and be the defender of sinlessness.
None of us has proven to one another through religion without any science, religion doesn't prove religion, it only gets attacked by even the minor differences. He's never asked me one question of what my puritanical life entails, not one, he makes the assumption that he knows my religion and how sinful it is, what a load of hogwash, if Catholicism really is the true church why was there a history of Catholics burning Protestants? Of course the Catholics will think they're right, that's because they had a history of bloody suppression of Protestants, sugarcoating it with virtues such as helping the needy, ordinary behaviour with commitment to Jesus Christ, they clean up all the holes in their faith and marginalise the Puritans as arseholes with a false morality, of course a belief being defended isn't going to open itself up to the truth of the faith, the Protestants know how wrong the Catholics are. Is any of this normal?

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Comments ( 15 )
  • donteatstuffoffthesidewalk
    2 years ago

    the fact that you are capable of questionin yourself as well as others makes you the superior thinker hans

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    • Hansberger
      2 years ago

      Thanks, and for the record I like to say that you're a reliable source of advice.

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  • RoseIsabella
    2 years ago

    I have gas.

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  • olderdude-xx
    2 years ago

    "It Ain’t What You Don’t Know That Gets You Into Trouble. It’s What You Know for Sure That Just Ain’t So."

    This quote has been attributed to Mark Twain.

    There is no actual evidence of that, and several other people said very similar things before Mark Twain may have said it.

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    • Hansberger
      2 years ago

      And what's your point? I admit I've been wrong about some things. Some of those people I encounter can't be reasoned with. People who don't understand your reasoning can't be reasoned with, people who know nothing of rationalism or who don't do what's reliable can't be reasoned with. Mere reason doesn't fail to persuade rational people, but with Mu'tazila which is rational people can't be reasoned with, and my mother can't be reasoned with. The point being if I tried to persuade people with advice they never listen, if you did that to me I do listen and can be reasoned with. But then again if you gave me reasoning with reliabilism I will be persuaded, people are disobedient because obedience isn't a virtue. If I gave you any advice chances are you won't listen. But I'll take your advice as long as helping me is in it for me.

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      • olderdude-xx
        2 years ago

        Good for you!

        I have found over the decades that while I have learned some things and found them to be true; that a great many things I have learned that I know less and less about.

        Rationalism is not entirely the answer in my opinion, as it has its shortcomings (see philosophical discussions on that if you want more information); but, its a good starting point to grow from.

        Another quote you might like:

        "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
        - Mark Twain

        "Wrestling with a fool is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You both get dirty and after a few minutes you realize that the pig is more experienced at it and likes it."

        Author unknown (although variations of this have been attributed to many people).

        Key lesson is what you have already learned. There is no use discussing or arguing with people who hold fixed positions that cannot be supported by evidence. If there is evidence, then you can suggest that you both look at your and their evidence together and see what new can be learned.

        Keep in mind that there are topics that successful people avoid talking about except to very close friends.

        The big two are Politics and Religion or religious issues.

        I find that people like to talk about themselves (and close family), their accomplishments, their goals, and their interest.

        Find something that is pleasant to talk to them about for both of you.

        I also suggest that you read the book: "How to win friends and influence people in the digital age" by Dale Carnegie & Associates. Its a fantastic update of the original, and will likely help you in not only these kinds of conversations, but in many more.

        Being able to communicate well will almost always increase your income and life enjoyment.

        Reread periodically many times in your life, there's a lot in that book that you will not recognize until you master some of the basics.

        I have a feeling is that you will do well in life.

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        • Hansberger
          2 years ago

          It sounds good except there's something missing, that I learned many many aspects of life with actualized.org, Jordan Peterson, Anthony Robbins, the Bible, the actualized forums, and the Zhuangtze, and I don't know anything about whether I need to gain friends and influence people, I'm keeping myself in the dark, so already I know myself and how my life works and to great proportions I know my self-deceptions etc, so tell me, what can I do with my life besides learning (every instance of learning is a burden for me because then I'll know too much)?

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          • olderdude-xx
            2 years ago

            Doing something in life that impacts more than yourself.

            However, typically to be able to do that you have to learn more than you currently know.

            What is it that you want to do in life, other than exist?

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            • Hansberger
              2 years ago

              I don't want to do anything but exist. Existing is all I do, I want to be real, with mere existence, otherwise I'll be dead. My mere existence is me who's just there. And I'm just there and that's a strange loop, doing spiritual work and religion, and what can I do? I write, I think, and I go out occasionally, with a hectic lifestyle. Still my life's hectic, I've achieved more in a week than my housemate achieved in 60 years. I suppose it's your useless opinion to want more out of me, implying I'm wasting my life. I unveiled the secret behind my delusions, I see the infinity behind everything, God knows what you're doing other than only being present on the internet with advice that doesn't make sense, telling me to read books, what do you know about not reading? By not reading I'm taking action, doing things, I never brush my teeth, I'm a liquitarian, the doctors are full of shit and know nothing about my diet, what does a doctor who's fat himself know about my health on liquids and concern for my passing out on the floor? And what do you know about a genius when you can't do the maths to know that geniuses understand a lot, have lived a life of the physical, have tried all the tricks, and spend years with a religion and the Bible?

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