Does free speech include hate speech?
Something I've been wondering for a while now.
No | 11 | |
Yes | 44 |
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Something I've been wondering for a while now.
No | 11 | |
Yes | 44 |
Truth vs Deceit is about as close to Good vs Evil as you can get. When the truth becomes illegal, that's when dictators and communist group-think comes in.
There is no easier way to tell who the bad guys are then the ones who want to curtail free speech. Even if they claim the noblest of intentions.
Oh good one! I feel so sorry for you people over in the usa (apart from the ones who voted for that trumpet): Australia has had some bastards of PM's but nothing approaching the one you're landed with.
He's not really that bad. Everyone blows things out of proportion, especially the news. I mean, misspelling a word on Twitter is apparently the worst thing a president could do. It's almost as if they try to find any little thing wrong and then blow it up into a huge thing. They did the same thing with the Paris accords. They don't even mean anything in an objective sense but somehow, we are all going to die because Trump left the agreement. So, yeah. He's not really that bad.
Free speech is actually the right to say anything and not be prosecuted, it isn't the right to be heard. So no, I don't think that you should be able to say actually hateful things (not like the overly common definition of hate speech we see daily now in colleges and universities) and not be prosecuted. Especially if it is a direct attempt to insight violence.
However, I do believe that hateful speech should always be heard (or at least never silenced) because if it is a truly hateful and not coherent argument then that should be evident from what they say. This means that everyone should be able to identify it as such and be repelled from that hateful mindset. Honestly, if Germany wasn't being suppressed, Hitler wouldn't have risen quite so easily.
I think what you're getting at here is the difference between legal consequences and social ones, and I agree with you on this.
Too many people confuse the two, and scream "muh free speech!" when really their free speech has not been blocked at all.
"Free Speech", as defined by virtually all consitutions that support it, is freedom to say what you like (short of threats or incitement to violence) without THE STATE censoring or punishing you because it's too controversial. That's what "free speech" means in a legal context.
"Free Speech" does NOT mean you cannot face social consequences for what you say. Social consequences would include people disagreeing with you, mocking you, telling you they think you're an asshole for saying something they consider rude. Just because you have an opinion that is not popular with people, that is not having free speech blocked by the state.
Define "hate speech": I'm sick and tired of that term being used to label anything a person or group disagrees with or doesn't want to hear.
I support free speech, but not when it incites or condones violence.
Another example of hate speech according to your logic.
I am glad Hitler was killed. I am glad we bombed Hiroshima to end the war....shall I go on or can you admit your logic is wrong.
By that logic I should refrain from saying I support all military personal who fought for freedom. Ya know cause engaging in war is a violent act. Shame on me.
There is no such thing as hate speech because what you consider hateful may not be hateful to another, additionally if one person uses a term it may be seen as love, whereas if someone else says the same thing it could be seen as hateful.
If a white person refers to a black person as nigger do you consider it hate speech?
What if a black person calls another black person nigger? Still hate?
"Hate speech" is a term made up by liberals as a way to confuse and gain more control of the masses.
You are free to use the term but I would suggest you strike it from your vocabulary because to me it makes me think you are a mindless sheep.
HATE SPEECH! HATE SPEECH! He's a thoughtcriminal! Take him to room 101! Why, for Big Brother's sake, he must be an agent of Goldstein himself!
Furthermore freedom of speech is an inalienable right. Meaning it can't be taken from you, literally short of cutting your tounge out no one can stop you saying something.
Consequences may be fluid but not inalienable rights. That is the whole point.
Aslong as hate speak does not include inciting violence. I say that because a lot of people, especially recently, have called things said in free speech which are accurate or atleast worthwhile discussions to have, "hate speech".
I totally agree with all that ItDuz! It amazes me how many people (usually on the right) claim the right to their own free speech but not that of their opponents, or label it "bullying".
I haven't seen much of the right do it to be honest but maybe I'm just not looking in the right place. It's often been those on the left that have done it to get speakers they disagree with cancelled, etc. Lol
There's nothing protecting people from getting boycotted and it happens all the time to all kinds of expression. People who speak out in favor of gay rights or abortion, for example, get boycotted or worse all the time. Politicians who go 'too soft' on these issues, or many other issues (crime, healthcare, environment, etc) often lose the support of their party and many voters.
Some pretty big examples of actual suppression of speech...have you heard about net neutrality? Porn censorship? Cities creating bogus zoning problems to keep out certain types of businesses they morally oppose? Schools imposing overly restrictive codes? (they are allowed to suppress expression to an extent but many go well beyond in some ways). Abstinence-only sex ed? Some books being banned in school? That's often thanks to threats from religious (right) groups threatening lawsuits. There are ever-increasing restrictions put on journalists (more limited access to people/areas, complete exclusion sometimes, etc) which threaten a free press.
But speech can advocate, incite or condone actions which infringe on someone's rights: eg, racists who advocated lynching of black people created a situation where lynching became common and acceptable.
You didn't give an example of how speech can infringe on a right. I am genuinely curious to hear how.
Besides inciting violence, here's some more examples. Slander/libel, stealing/broadcasting words owned by someone else (like copyrighted/protected works), making or distributing child pornography and false advertising. There's a few more but I can't think of them off the top of my head right now.
In my lynching example, someone advocating lynching me would infringe on my right to live free of fear of being lynched ........it's not rocket science
Free speech is exactly what it says free speech. Do I condone hate speech, no, but I do defend the right to say it.
hate speach is protected by the constitution in the USA. elsewhere it is not. you can move. i hate muslims democrats and pet owners. pack your bags.
Hate speech is legal and is covered by the us 1st amendment. Threatening speech, however, is not. You can't threaten a person or group and you can't advocate violence or other crimes against a person or group. For example, a Klansman can speak to a group of followers and talk about black people all he wants, but he cannot tell them to go stab someone. He also cannot use his speech to me incite a riot, which is a crime.
Anything can be hate speech, so where do you draw the line? Hate speech isn't even a problem if you have thick enough skin. And what if the society or government desides to condemn something that's actually right? What if they're wrong about everything? Without free speech you wouldn't even be able to speak up about it, so you'd be stuck with it for a long time.
Yes, and 'hate speech' is well-protected. People get confused on what free speech means though. It just means (with few exceptions) that THE GOVERNMENT is not punishing you for your expression.
You are still open to other consequences like criticism, losing your job, getting kicked out of school or other institutions/organizations, a reputation, etc. Freedom of speech doesn't entitle you to a platform or an audience either. Nobody has to publish or broadcast your speech and refusing to do so doesn't infringe on your 'free speech' because, um, like I said...that's not part of your rights to begin with.
Free to say what ever you want but not free to be heard.
There's the difference.
the peoples screamin the most bout hate speech always seemsta has bout the same credibility as the ones makin the hate speech in the first place
Yes absolutely.
If you want to know who has power over you just ask yourself who you aren't allowed to criticise.
One can not be offended by other's speech. If it's an action, then it's a problem...
You're joking right? That's just ridiculous! Of course one can be offended by another's speech: for example Hitler's speeches would offend anyone with even the tiniest amount of integrity, as would speech advocating rape or child sexual abuse.
So you are basically saying, we should just label it as hate speech when it comes to something we don't like about? Everyone's moral principles are different you know, labeling it as offensive or hate speech is not the way. By giving facts and reasons it can be easily solved, not just "I don't like rape don't advocate me rape or child sexual abuse " okay we know why they are wrong , but we know because there are reasons... So in every speech , free speech opposite sides must provide reasons and facts proved to let him know that why he is wrong. And hate speech thing is just sounds like something that we don't like and can label it.
Until it is threatening or inciting violence, then yes it is valid.
The problem with banning "hate speech" is... what constitutes as "hate speech"? If you can arbitrarily brand anything as "hate speech" then that is very dangerous. There are some people who might argue that criticising ideologies is "hate speech" against people who hold the ideologies.
An example of that - If I, as a gay man, cannot criticise the way gays are still brutalised in many Islamic countries, because that's "hate speech" against Muslims as a people, where does that leave us? We have to tolerate something far more abominable than someone getting their feels hurt because "hate speech". I would also prefer to criticise this from a liberal/secular perspective with an emphasis on individual rights, but that can't be done if the "liberals" in my country want to say criticising the ideology of a minority group is "racist"... so then you leave it open to the far-Right to do it, who don't do it in a liberal way. Some things have to be said, even if it's an opinion you might not like.
Threats and incitement to violence should always be criminal offenses though.
As long as it is true, it should not be a problem. But inciting violence is so often called free speech, when it is only done to collect votes from those that can be lied to and would believe anything. Then again civilized countries can never be compared to third world countries.
I think anything should be allowed to be voiced, and expressed. Suppressing that would only cause more secretism, giving governments an excuse to increase "National Security" and we lose even more of our rights, privacy, and our freedom has been long gone, but life would be that much more difficult. I don't want to live my life walking on egg-shells.