Do you think we italians are white?

I know that we aren't very easy to '' categorise '' as there are Italians that look like Bianca Balti, Ignazio Abate, Ciro Immobile, Claudio Marchisio, Daniele Rugani who could almost pass in nordic countries ( yet they're full blood Italians ), but there are also Italians like Daniele Adani who don't look stereotipically white at all. I personally am in the Claudio Marchisio/Ignazio Abate category, but do you think of all Italians as white people or do you distinguish between '' white Italians '' and '' non-white Italians ''?

No 11
Yes 26
Some are, some aren't 21
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Comments ( 48 )
  • Murun

    There are Italians of all colours. Are you American rather than Italian OP? Many Americans seem to want to put everybody in a racial category or other based on skin colour, particularly if the colour can be called white or black. (a legacy of long-lived segragation based on European human immigrants buying and selling African human slaves I suppose)
    The rest of the world does not generally do this!
    If you slowly walk from the top of Europe to the south of Africa there are no sudden genetic changes labeled 'race'. It's a man-made construct.

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    • While I do agree that there's only one race ( the human race ) you can't deny that a Swede doesn't look like a Brit, a German doesn't look like an Italian, an Italian doesn't look Japanese and so on. Over the course of the years people from different places have been separate, this means they've '' evolved '' on a different path.

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      • Murun

        Yes. So most people's genes are a mash-up. People can look Mediterranean or North African or Scandinavian. I can spot certain Germanic or Irish facial traits in a crowd. It's ridiculous to categorise people into divisive things like black or white though. Especially when both those words are used with the weight of American 'apartheid' culture behind them.

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        • _Mehhhh_

          I see what you're saying there Murun. Being half "Mediterranean" in The UK, I can spot "another" Mediterranean person a mile away, before they even open their mouth or before I know their name. I'm rarely wrong.

          I guess I'm just very familiar with the kind of features they (or "we" really) usually tend to have (even if they have lighter skin). Of course there are exceptions, but there is a general difference between how "Germanic" types and "Mediterranean" types look. Being half and half myself, that's very easy for me to see.

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        • But come on would you say that Donald Trump and Barack Obama are genetically the same? In my opinion races aren't the issue, racist people are. And believe me, if everyone was either white or black then Brits would start hating the French because they're French, Americans would start hating Russians, Italians would start hating the Chinese and so on. people would still find a reason and a way to be racist. There's nothing wrong with saying that Obama is black and Trump isn't.

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          • Murun

            I wouldn't say the're the same. Obama looks to have a lot of African genes (about half-half with European by his looks) and trump looks particularly Anglo-Saxon.
            I wouldn't describe any of them as black or white cause that's not how I roll.

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  • rayb12

    Nobody gives a shit

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    • You clearly do.

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      • rayb12

        ?

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        • Nobody asked/told you to answer but you still did, fuck off somewhere else as nobody wants your opinion. And also everyone knows that it was you who downvoted me.

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          • rayb12

            You asked the question. People do want my opinion. I did not down vote you.

            Outside of Italy nobody spends the time thinking about how to classify the skin color of people there or has heard of any of the people you mention. We don't care what color your skin is. Notice how nobody else has commented. This site has mostly non-italian users and we don't think about this.

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            • Listen, you're wrong. I asked a question, you don't care? Fine, shut up. X doesn't care? Fine, they can shut up. I don't want your opinion, I want opinions, yes, but not yours specifically, I'll survive without it.

              '' or has heard of any of the people you mention ''

              I'm sure most Brits, Germans etc. have heard of them and know what they look like. Claudio Marchisio is one of the best midfielders in the world and plays for Juventus, one of the best teams in the world. Ciro Immobile is well-known too and played for Borussia Dortmund, which means a lot of non-Italians have seen him. Daniele Rugani plays for Juventus too. Many many Europeans have seen their faces, you're assuming they haven't because probably you're an American who watches rugby, soccer, hockey or basketball and you have never heard of them when they're actually pretty damn famous... in Europe. And who else should I have taken as an example? My friends or someone that millions of people have seen?

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  • There's rampant racism in Italy, I have beem observing that for quite a while. Skin tone do not make anyone superior to other people.

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  • bob7

    your life can finally be completed once you know what strangers on the internet define your skin color

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    • My life is already complete, thanks, I just wanted to know what others would classify a dark Italian as.

      I don't know why I keep posting on here when I know most people on here are annoying losers.

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      • Murun

        I think only black/white obsessed Americans would attempt to classify them as anything. The rest of the world doesn't really divide people up in that way.

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        • Those nazi-fascist Europeans make me sick to my stomach. Still on about those ignorant eugenics theories.

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      • bob7

        you came for opinions, but at the same time, cant handle them :(

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        • Opinion: one of the most over-used words. Anything is an opinion.
          It doesn't work like that, there is no opinion in your comment.

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          • bob7

            ok here's my opinion: stupid.

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            • Get a life.

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  • RoseIsabella

    Italians are Caucasians!

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  • _Mehhhh_

    Depends who you ask. Mediterranean people in general are among those odd intermediate skintone ethnicities, where it's all subjective. "White" is a subjective term anyway and skintone is a gradient geographically. Where do you draw a line on the world map, where indigenous people North of that line are "white" and people South aren't? It's opinion. I've heard extremes ranging from some people who don't even consider French people white, to people who do consider Arabs and Iranians white.

    My Dad's family are from neighbouring Malta originally. They self-identify as white and so do I (would be silly if I didn't, I came out REALLY white like my British mother).

    Since my grandparents came to The UK they have always been considered white here (if a little exotic-looking). However, I also have relatives who moved to Australia and were "wogs" upon arrival. So again it depends.

    As for Italians... well if we're white, so are you. To most people these days "indigenous European = white", and Italians are European, so they would be considered white by most people.

    PS in my opinion Daniele Adani still has the look of a European. His features are relatively dark yes, but not to where I'd say he looked like an Arab or African.

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  • suckonthis9

    Italia describes a peninsula and a country, not a people.

    "The name Italia originally applied only to a part of what is now Southern Italy – according to Antiochus of Syracuse, the southern portion of the Bruttium peninsula (modern Calabria: province of Reggio, and part of the provinces of Catanzaro and Vibo Valentia). But by his time Oenotria and Italy had become synonymous, and the name also applied to most of Lucania as well. The Greeks gradually came to apply the name "Italia" to a larger region, but it was during the reign of Emperor Augustus (end of the 1st century BC) that the term was expanded to cover the entire peninsula until the Alps." -Wikipedia

    The term 'Italia' was derived from a Hellenic (Greek) people who had inhabited some of the southern parts of the peninsula.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italiotes

    There is a wide variety of modern peoples (please note the plural) who inhabit the Italian peninsula today, because of their prehistoric and ancient ancestry, from various different European peoples, and admixtures thereof.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_peoples_of_Italy

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    • Italia describes a peninsula, but I asked whether Italians are considered white, not whether Italy is considered white.

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      • suckonthis9

        "Italians", are not a homogeneous population.

        Rather, the peoples who inhabit the Italian peninsula, are all descended predominantly from various different European peoples, or admixtures thereof; with the exception of relatively recent non-European migrants.
        None of them are, in fact, "white".

        Please note: Some peoples who inhabit the Italian peninsula, might very well be descended partly from various indigenous peoples, that might have been archaic forms of modern humans, but had later admixed with a European variety, that had initially developed in the Ural Mountains region, and that had later migrated into the Danube River region, then had spread out and diversified into various different European peoples from there.

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  • Countess_Kittycat

    The problem is that "white" is a modern label used to compare the whole world to Europe, and it does not account really well for all the racial diversity that already existed and exists in Europe both today and at the fall of the Western Empire. So, as far this label is worth (and it's not worth that much), I would say yes, Italians have to be white, since they are a Romance people of Europe, and the label is generally used to compare traditional Europeans to peoples from other backgrounds. However, traditional Italians generally present more variety in skin color than most Germanic peoples.

    During the times of the Empire, there was a lot of racial variety both within the original component peoples and between the peoples themselves, and miscigenation became more common as requirements for citizenship and intermarriage became more general, adding to this diversity even more. The few pantings that have survived from Rome present a lot of different phenotypes, ranging from pale white to white to salmon to yellowish to bronze to brown, with all types of hair color. Black skin was more uncommon, since the Romans had less contact with Subsaharan Africa, but, especially in the sense of Eastern Africans (Nubians and Ethipians), were also sometimes present, even though Nubia was not part of the empire, despite some contact between both regions.

    I think these examples are generally quite representative of the variety we can see today in Italy. There are less darker phenotypes, since contact with Egypt and the rest of Africa and the Eastern empire was eventually lost to a great extent, producing less diversity, and even the ones that were more common in the Italian heartland were with time miscigenated with Germanic invaders, becoming closer to that of Germanic countries to some extent. However, there is still a lot of diversity, and it's not easy to simply group all of Europe (or Italy) within the same racial label.

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  • RoseIsabella

    Italians are Caucasians!

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  • RoseIsabella

    Italians are Caucasians!

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  • Zorak

    Its a me...mario2

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  • Hateful1

    Where do you live. If you live in the US your American. If you live in Italy then your Italian. Why do we still feel the need to separate ourselves by color.

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  • McBean

    Italians from the mountains of Northern Italy, like Milan and Turin are actually of German descent.

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  • Boojum

    I vaguely recall watching some American mafia film where one of the mobsters goads an Italian-American guy into violence by telling him that Italians came from Africa, and so they are all black.

    I'm sure there are a few overt British racists who crudely divide the peoples of the world into white Northern Europeans, Asians, and Blacks. They may put Italians (and people from other Mediterranean countries) in the "Black" category.

    Hell, there are some idiots who can cope with only two categories: "white" (meaning Northern European) and "everybody else".

    I suppose most intelligent, educated Brits would consider Italians "white" if forced to put them in one of those three categories, but then intelligent, educated people don't see the world in such crude terms. Although "Asian" is a generally accepted concept, most Brits know there are Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Thais, and so on in that group, and they are not all the same.

    Some Brits with an unsophisticated view of the world will consider Italians "Europeans", and lump them with the Germans, French, Poles, and Dutch. But I believe most British people consider Italians one of the Mediterranean peoples, and so, taken as a national group, they'd consider them similar to the Spanish, Portuguese, and Greeks. In other words, they aren't "white", since that's generally seen as meaning Northern European, but something else.

    Many Italians have integrated into Britain over the centuries, and I'm sure most Brits would consider them to be "white".

    I'm also sure most Brits would look at someone similar to Claudio Marchisio or Ignazio Abate and consider them "white", although some might see Mediterranean characteristics in their appearance.

    Only an Italophile Brit would understand there is a difference between someone whose ancestors all lived in the Veneto and someone whose ancestry is exclusively Calabrian.

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    • Hateful1

      Sicily was concurred by the Nubian's for a time. I think it was during the rule of Constantine. But don't quote me.

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    • Ok, helpful, thanks. :)

      You might not care but just a little note: there is very little difference between Northern Italians and Southern Italians when it comes to looks, the difference is exaggerated by foreigners who assume Northern Italians are '' whiter '' because they're closer to Germany, Austria etc.

      I'm Southern Italian and all my ancestors are Southern Italians, yet most of them are pale with light hair and eyes. Ignazio Abate and Ciro Immobile have blonde hair and blue eyes yet both are Southern Italians, Daniele Adani is from Northern Italy and look at his complexion and facial features.
      Some places in Southern Italy like Benevento even have a ridiculous amount of Germanic-looking people because of the ancestry of the people who live there.

      I didn't know someone could consider the likes of Claudio Marchisio black though, that's shocking, that's not racist, that's plain stupid.

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      • Boojum

        We lived in Abruzzo, and the number of Germanic-looking Italians there seemed pretty small. Almost everyone had the features which most Brits and Americans think "Italian": very dark brown or black hair, olive skin, and brown eyes.

        I can't honestly say I know anyone who would call Marchisso black, but I'm sure there are a few Brits who would - at the very least - consider him "less than white" because he's Italian. There is no logic there, only bigotry.

        And, yeah, I'm sure you know a lot more than I do about variations in skin and hair coloring in different areas of Italy. When we traveled around the country, I didn't pay a lot of attention to that. I do know there are significant cultural differences between the north and the south, but that's obviously a completely different issue.

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  • GoddessLife

    No Italians are not white. You are black.

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    • Wrong. No ( pure ) Italian is black, we've never had anything to do with them, that's ignorance at its finest.

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      • delete445

        Sorry dude, but your country is right across from Africa... the Moors came over and fucked all your women. It's a sad part of history, but it happened. You have niggeя in your blood. I'm sorry it happened but you have to accept it.

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  • delete445

    Italians behave a lot like middle easterners or blacks, except they're easier to laugh at (goofiest stereotypes on the planet, absolutely ridiculous). So no, I would never categorize Italians as white.

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    • Stereotypes created by people who are envious of us so they have something to feel better. It's not like we're a first world country with one of the healthiest lifestyles, among the countries with the best average salaries in Europe, it's not like we're the people who civilised the western world when your people were probably barely more evolved than monkeys, it's not like we invented the first telephone, the first computer ( as we know it now ), it's not like the best wines are Italian ( and Frenc ), it's not like the best cuisine is Italian ( and maybe French ), it's not like the best and most iconic supercar in the world is Italian, and I could go on for days. It's not like millions of people travel the world to come and see our country. That's some inferiority complex there and you don't know how much we laugh at others too.

      That said, putting us in the same group as Africans and Middle Easterners is pure ignorance which makes your comment absolutely invalid and meaningless. WE SHARE NO LIFESTYLE SIMILARITIES, ABSOLUTELY NONE. That's a fact, we have nothing to do with them, that doesn't mean I don't like them, it's just a fact, may no one be offended. So not only you're a racist, you're also more ignorant than an animal ( others laugh at you ).

      By the way, I don't mind when you say we aren't white, the reason of my reply is that putting us in the same category as Africans and Middle-Easterners makes no sense.

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      • Countess_Kittycat

        The above post was completely trollish and nonsensical, but your response was quite prejudiced as well. "Probably barely more evolved than monkeys"? Really? Not even mentioning the clear racism and anthropological unawareness of the comment, this depiction of the Romans (whom I guess you are referring to) is completely incorrect. For starters, the Middle East was just as civilized as Rome, and was actually civilized EARLIER, actually by a significant margin. North Africa, too, was civilized in a comparable timeframe to Rome and had a much earlier socioeconomic development. When Rome conquered North Africa, it was an example of an upstart civilization conquering a previously more advanced one, not of a civilization conquering nomadic and tribal peoples. I don't think I even need to mention Egypt. Ironically, of the peoples conquered by Rome, the transalpine, non-Phoenician and non-Greek Western Europeans (mostly Celtics, Iberians and Aquitanians) were the least developed at the time, most of them being tribal, but even they were actually quite developed as well. They had metallurgy, navigation and vibrant commercial routes, and many of the strongest tribes were quite centralized and urbanized. Needlessly to say, though, even the simplest human way of life is completely different from that of Homo habilis, who was millions of years divergent from that of apes, and apes are not monkeys. Italy was less developed than the Middle East during a significant part of Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, though it started to catch up again after the end of the Golden Age of Islam and, later, the start of the Renaissance. It was finally put in a stronger position in military terms after industrialization and unification, especially after the fall of the Ottoman empire.

        Culturally, modern Italy should be grouped with the rest of Western Europe, being closest to France (especially southern France) and the Iberian Peninsula. Racially, Italians are also closest to other Romance peoples, but with a stronger Roman heritage thanks to living closer to the Ancient heartland of the Empire. Obviously this is the background of Italy, which is distinct from that of the Middle East (though Sicily has a strong Muslim heritage too, just like the Iberian peninsula). Is it true that Italians share no cultural traits with Middle Easterners, though? I don’t think so. Islam has a lot of common with Catholicism (and Christianity in general), and we should also remember the Eastern Catholics and Eastern Churches. Besides, Levantine and North African communities, whether Christian or Muslim, share a lot of basic customs with Italy thanks to their Mediterranean traditions.

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      • delete445

        Three words: Super Mario Brothers

        Japanese think you're idiots. Americans think you're idiots. The whole world thinks you're a fucking joke.

        Anyone who travels to Italy leaves thinking you guys are criminals. Which is true, sadly.

        It's so sad to see such an amazing civilization become a country of gypsies.

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    • Countess_Kittycat

      Your comments are obviously nonsensical, you are just a bad troll.

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