Ask Your Question today
I know that I probably won't do a perfect job of covering all bases with the answers. Select the one that most fits you the closest and leave a comment saying what you picked and elaborate a little.
Thanks!
When I was 18, I believed in science. I thought the truth would set people free. I thought it would allow them to see things that I had admittedly only recently been taught and that I later came to doubt. I believed understanding would make a better world and I tried to engage people to follow what I had learned. I tried to make people happy by explaining why things happened.
When I was 18, my mother became a Methodist (still is) and she found peace in the words of a Methodist minister who became a family friend. He thought the truth would set people free. He wanted to tell people things that he believed but admitted he doubted. He believed his faith made him a better person and believed it could make a better world and he tried very hard to engage people and to make people happy.
He and I are tied together because it's always going to be his signature on my passport application, vouching for me. But he and I are tied together because we want the same thing, regardless of our belief.
The words are different, the outcome is the same. If you want to do the right thing, it doesn't matter why. It only matters that you do.
If something destroys it deserves to be destroyed. I do think 99% of the world's religions are destructive but it also extends to ideas.
Things like Nazism, Racism, Communism, Anarchy, Islam, and other religions have divided us for thousands of years and caused those who could have been brothers to kill one another in embittered conflict.
But in a practical sense it could almost never be done. To destroy ideas, you must birth a new one.
Are you saying humans deserve to be destroyed? Everything destroys something, that is life. I have an idea, stop looking for division. A lot of these groups were in search of group cohesion and found it rooted in hatred and fear. Sadly they get too attached to these ideas and forget that it's easier to live when your social glue is made of love and cooperation. I don't think you truly destroy an idea, but you can forget.
I understand what you mean. It's not fun saying that ideas are what separate friends from brothers. But it is the truth. Why else do wars exist? If you want to stop the wars, you have to end ideas. That's not the fun emotional thing to say but it will bring peace to our shattered world.
"love and cooperation"
Emotion is completely relative; a man can love God or Lucifer; he can love murderers or those who heal the sick. To say I should live by love alone is to spit in the face of justice and say, "None of that matters; just live how you feel".
Feelings will destroy you if you give them the chance.
"Everything destroys"
What about the relationship between two parents? (Just got back from my uncle and aunt's). They don't destroy each other but rather they live in symbiosis and give back to one another. That's life. True life.
Ideas may seperate us, but love is what makes a friend a brother even when ideas differ. And if you want to bring peace to our shattered world, then bring it. Bring the ideas forth! Listen with love and agree to disagree. It may cause chaos and disruption but sometimes you need to shake a person to wake them up. And I'm not so naive to think peace is sustainable. What I seek is balance.
Love only spits in the face of justice when people get too attached to their ideas. And it is a loving spit, one to wash away what isn't working. Love is universal, the justice is not. And love isn't always hugs and kisses. Sometimes it requires a kick in the pants. Parents lovingly allow their children to fall and get hurt with the hope that they learn something.
And yes, feelings can destroy you if you let them. But they can also give you power. And everything destroys something, not everything can destroy everything. A symbiotic relationship still has aspects of destruction and decay to build and feed something different. That is life.
Hope you had fun with your family :)
I did. It was a gas! My reason for my coming was not a happy one though; his lake house lost two floors in a natural incident. Long story, but I'm here now to help with repairs.
"Listen with love"
There is something to that. It's never right to bare personal hate to another human since it's ideas and not the man that creates the difference. But my love for justice will always supersede my own personal feelings (love).
Why do you think love is universal?
"aspects of destruction in symbiosis"
"Destruction" to me means the killing of innocence. Think of the Mona Lisa burning and you have the idea. It's the utter desolation of life that was fit for life. But this kind of destruction is just creation misnamed. On the reverse of that, it's possible to create and contribute towards destruction.
Not all healers are good and not all destroyers are evil.
I am not religious, nor spiritual, nor do I have faith, or anything else related to the metaphysical. What I've come to acknowledge from this vantage point is that religion is neither helpful nor detrimental to humanity, without it war still will exist like the USSR displayed. Without it greed and other vices will still exist. But things like morality would still exist. And it is because all of these "good" and "bad" things are not caused by religion nor exist because of it. Instead people use religion to convey these messages of hatred and destruction, or, of peace and love. But it is not the only way these messages, can be conveyed.
In short, if religion ceased to exist the world will not be a better or worst place.
Well for me I feel like a lot of people put up a religious front. My family isn't really religious but are Christians. My mom let what someone else said get in her head while I was in middle school and forced me to become an active member of the church, because she was afraid I was into "satanic" things.
From K-12 I was always in private Christian/Catholic schools. With the exception of my first 6 months of HS being at my first public school. That was the first time I met people who weren't Christians and I found it really refreshing. Throughout HS I suffered finding my own faith. I had got this thought installed in me that if I wasn't Christian than I must have to be an atheist. It was very stressful thinking this while going to a Catholic school where I had to participate in everything and then go home and not be able to question my faith, because then my mom would just go berserk.
For some time I looked into other religions but I knew my mom or dad would never really accept any as right. It's very frustrating when,every religion thinks they are the right religion. I also find it odd and stressful how different people look and treat others when they find out they aren't the same religion (at least in my case)
I don't believe in god. I can say that now. It's just not for me. I don't bag on anyone's religion. But if a Christian feels the need to tell me why they know god is real, I expect them not to get made when I tell them why I think he's not real.
Are you trying to say that religion is going to be all gone, right now, from this point onwards or is the concept you are suggesting that we try to imagine the world if religion never existed?
I am going to answer your question using the first concept, because the way you worded this question gives that impression.
First all of, there is no way to enforce this abolition of religion. Even if the world were to be ruled by a single totalitarian government, perhaps similar to the one in effect during the Nazi régime people would still practice their faith in secret. Maybe on the outside they would say they did not believe in any religion but they would ask God's forgiveness in their hearts. The same applies for whatever other religion any human being wishes to follow.
Another question I have, is what do you consider to be a religion? Are people allowed to hold beliefs in math and science? Are they allowed to be spiritual in any form?
Yes. Even though everyone else seems to be answering this question in a general sense, trying to debate with one another about the big idea, no concept is without each of the minuscule pieces that make up the larger whole.
Still, I will continue. I don't often get into debate or lengthy discussion about anything but all of my favorite users have jumped on board so I wanted to also voice my opinion.
Somehow, every country in the entire world, or we have now delved into an alternate reality and this other world is going to enforce and oppress the people that live there so they are not able to practice religion. There is not a single thing that every part of the world is able to oppress another human being
from doing. For example, there are even justified methods to kill another person. What you suggest here, is something that impossible to even imagine.
Still, I will try to continue further on.
Let us create this fantasy of this alternate reality. Religion is abolished. Every human being is an atheist.
I cannot go on much further here because now we delve into my own personal opinion of atheists, and atheism and not what is known to true.
But even so, I have a bit more that I can say on this matter. The majority of the atheists I have known were bitter and vile people. Their point of view was to rape and pillage because this is all there is. They would speak hatefully towards Christians and others that followed any religion. They had no moral code although they were nice to their friends, family, and pets. They seemed to be so full of hatred and rage for things that are minuscule in my eyes, like saying "One nation, under God" in the American pledge of allegiance. What I have been exposed to, has not led me to draw the conclusion that atheists are the best kind of person, and thus, the best thing for a person to be.
As I already stated, this is my personal opinion, and not what I know to be true. Another thing that I know to be true, is that each human being is different and special. Each person has their own soul, and their own needs. Each person would react differently as an atheist than the others. One should never, ever, try to speak for humanity as a whole unless absolutely necessary. I cannot assess these reactions, and tell you the way this world would be.
So there we go. This is the end of my answer to your question. In actuality, I think I gave you a lot more questions than answers and I would be more than happy to continue on with this if you were to respond to me. I am very tired after writing all of this and I hope it ends up being worth something. I'm happy because I really pushed my mind to another level. This is my answer to "Will the world be a better place if religion is abolished?" :)
I believe religion is a good thing, though some people take it too far. It's always good to believe in something. It gives us a sense of purpose and direction. I don't think some people would live as happy as they are without religion being around.
Religion teaches rights and wrongs. Though I don't believe in heaven or hell, I do believe in the sense of it in your own mind. Most religions teach you to keep yourself in your own sort of heaven. I don't think people could achieve that without being taught it through the heaven and hell context.
In short, religion helps people become better people. Without it, I can almost guarantee there will be a lot of lost people with no sense of purpose walking around. That will only lead to bad.
Abolishing religion wouldn't work. It would only drive it underground and potentially even strengthen it. Where levels of education and standard of living are improved, however, religiousness tends to decrease drastically. That's why socially advanced countries like Norway have the highest rates of atheism. It would be interesting to see if in these uncertain economic times, more people will turn to religions and pseudosciences like astrology for hope and comfort.
I'm not religious myself, but in the same way that religion may drive some people to be hateful and evil, it also drives some people to love and do good, for fear of their God.
Think about all the uneducated people in the world who have known little of earthly happiness in their lives. Presuming that they have no access to education or differing opinions, religion is all that they have to tell them to be good, not do any harm, and ultimately promise them a better life in the next world. Ripping away this hope from someone like that would be cruel. It's the only thing that they have.
In that case, wouldn't it be better to educate those people on basic morals and ethics instead of religion? You can teach people to be good, and not do any harm by other means than just religion.
" it also drives some people to love and do good, for fear of their God. "
Is that really any way to live your life? By fear that if you don't do good you might suffer in the afterlife? We should teach people to help each other out and do the right thing for the good of humanity, not for fear of punishment.
Promising them a better life in the next world is also not a good thing to put in someones head. But I understand your point that if they're suffering in this life, then the thought of living in bliss in the afterlife might be enough to get them through.
Can I just say that I was brought up to believe that if I ever committed suicide my soul would go straight to hell. This one fear forced me to survive my shitty childhood, although I often prayed to die - believing that heaven was when they put the lid on the coffin, and it got dark, and I got some peace.
I agree that we should teach people to be good and help other people, but then we get the rebels without a cause, who test this theory to see what will happen. There must be some fear instilled in people otherwise we could do whatever we like in this lifetime. For example, I could take my tiny friend's Porsche off her knowing she couldn't do anything about it. However, we have our legal system which is broadly based on the Commandments and general fairness, so the police would arrest me.
Why do you think that promising people a better life in the next world is NOT a good thing?
As parents, we lie about Santa to make kids happy so I don't really see the problem.
Nor do most people believe the afterlife to be a lie!
My point re Santa is that parents tell the kids about Santa to make them happier and if someone has such a horrible life, dying of starvation etc then I see no problem with them listening to a preacher, who tells them there is an afterlife where they will be happy. Hopefully it gives them some happiness and allows them to die peacefully.
I see you chose to ignore my own reason for not committing suicide and that wasn't due to some legal fear. Our legal system has been set up based on religion, otherwise we wouldn't swear on the Bible. You are right, it is more trendy / rebellious to be an athiest among more and more young people. My father was a lifetime athiest until the week he was dying just before Christmas. Suddenly, he talked to me about 'the Big Man up there' and complained that there were no hymns on the radio that he liked. I nearly fainted!!
A lot of people confuse religion and religious wars with humans' desire to take over others' land. I live in Northern Ireland just outside Belfast so I know all about the conflict of religion but in all honesty, most decent people just regard 'religion' as an excuse for badness. True Christians would not be out bombing and shooting in my country, they would be in church praying.
I have grown up believing in God and I have always tried to live by His rules (as best I can but I'm human). As a result, I believe He has been very good to me. However, there have been many debates on this site re religion, so it's a little tedious to be honest.
Bear Grylls says he has never met an athiest on a lifeboat or in the death zone on Everest.
Nor have I, when there has been gunfire and explosions in the streets of Belfast, when I was younger of course! We now have 'peace'.
I know what you mean, I'm not planning on getting in a long winded debate about this yet again. I just want to say my piece.
For people that were in your predicament, and for the less fortunate people all over the world dying from starvation, and being sex slaves, etc...i understand how religion can help put them at peace. But you're using the most extreme examples of people who might need religion.
The fact is that a lot of people who believe in a religion are educated people living in a more or less stable environment. They're not dying or suffering in any way but still believe. Is it really a coincidence that your father "found" God a week before he died? Or could it have been that he felt the fear that almost everyone does when they know death is imminent and he was just trying to comfort himself with that thought?
Ok, so our legal system has been set up based on religion. Does this mean we as humans do not posses the ability to establish a justice system based on our own morals? Religion was established a long time ago so it's basically in everything that humans interact with, that doesn't mean that we can't change.
You cannot deny that throughout history the occupation of land goes hand in hand with forcing religion on the indigenous people who inhabited that land. I'm glad that Christians in your country would be in church praying, but the fact is i can give you numerous examples of wars and blood spilled in the name of religion.
Your last paragraph seems to insinuate that atheists haven't contributed or are not as noble as Christians. There are so many atheists who have contributed so much to this world.
Marie Curie, won a nobel prize for physics and another one for chemistry.
Francis Crick, co-discovered the structure of DNA, also won a nobel prize for physiology.
Steven Hawking, Bill Gates, Thomas Edison, the list goes on.
Trust me, I am in no way jumping on the Atheist bandwagon, I don't really know what i believe. I was raised Greek Orthodox but have grown apart from that whole ideology. But anyway, im not trying to change anyone's belief system. If you find serenity in religion and you keep and open mind i have no problem with you.
"There must be some fear instilled in people otherwise we could do whatever we like in this lifetime. For example, I could take my tiny friend's Porsche off her knowing she couldn't do anything about it. However, we have our legal system which is broadly based on the Commandments and general fairness, so the police would arrest me."
You just proved my point and this is a perfect example. We have the resources and the right judgement as human beings to punish people with bad motives and to reward people with good ones. So telling people that they're gonna go to hell and burn for all eternity is not necessary when we can instill our own fear through legal systems and other means.
By doing this, we can also get rid of irrational fears, like that of some religious homosexuals. Do you know how many people are miserable in this world because they're gay and they've been brought up to believe it's a sin? So is it fair that these people have to live their whole lives thinking their going to burn in hell for all eternity just because they're gay?
As far as rebels without a cause go, you think these people won't exist with religion? In fact, they do. The restrictive nature of religion has caused many people to pull away from it and find a better life on their own accord.
Why do I think that promising people a better life in the next world is not a good thing? I can't believe i have to explain this. It is completely irrational to have someone believe that this isn't their one and only chance at life. To tell people that they're gonna have a second life in bliss and peace is an obvious false hope in a world full of turmoil and pain. This is one of the main reasons behind suicide bombings. These people are promised a paradise if they sacrifice themselves along with innocent people.
If you want to believe that some utopia awaits you after you die then be my guest. But I know this is basically my only life and that's every reason to try and make the best of it and do what i truly enjoy.
"As parents, we lie about Santa to make kids happy so I don't really see the problem."
You basically just compared adults who believe in the afterlife to little kids who believe in Santa. Thank you for making it easier on me. You see my point here? It's CHILDISH to lie to people and tell them fairy tales. You're basically just molding someone's mind into believing happy things until reality hits them.
Ideally that would be good, but realistically it's impossible - can we travel to ALL countries and teach others about morals? Morals differ from culture to culture, and telling others to abolish their religion will turn them against you and they will never listen to you. We can't take away the children of religious people to teach them what we think is right and wrong.
Living in fear is not good, but unless they are a person with a desire to do only bad things, this fear will only arise when faced with temptation. A non-religious person will weigh the pros and cons of submitting to a "temptation" and make his decision for better or worse, but a person that is naïve as well as religious will not commit an act that may cause others or himself harm because of the fear of an almighty being watching them.
Naïve people, and people that are not educated or opened to different ideas and opinions with the ability to decide for themselves, will most likely not contribute anything great to the world, but they will most likely also not do anything terrible if given a religious ideology to follow.
Why is promising them a better life not a good thing to put in someone's head? The threat of suicide? The taking of one's life is a sin and promises hell in most major religions.
"A non-religious person will weigh the pros and cons of submitting to a "temptation" and make his decision for better or worse, but a person that is naïve as well as religious will not commit an act that may cause others or himself harm because of the fear of an almighty being watching them. "
So you're saying that a non-religious person is more likely to commit a harmful act than a religious person. This is so wrong. You make it sound as if non-religious people have no morals and can't tell right from wrong. It doesn't take an almighty being watching me to prevent me from doing something harmful, all it takes is common sense.
"Living in fear is not good, but unless they are a person with a desire to do only bad things, this fear will only arise when faced with temptation."
If a person has the desire to do only bad things, they will find a way no matter what they believe in. Look at Hitler for example, he believed in God and still did what he did. Actually, he felt that God was guiding him throughout his life but that's beside point.
Of course we can't travel to all countries and teach everyone about COMMON SENSE morals that humans should have no matter what their education but religion is no substitute for that. I don't know every religion practiced on this earth so some of them might actually teach good moral values. Im going by what is most ubiquitous which seems to be the Christian God and the "morals" taught by the Bible are frankly primitive.
No, I am NOT saying that a non-religious person is more likely to commit a harmful act than a religious person. If that was what I meant, that is what I would have said. Please don't make assumptions abotu what I mean to say.
And about the second part - my meaning was clear as day - it was exactly what I said, no hidden messages.
There is no reason to go against what I am saying when you take what I said and put a tiny little twist on it.
Well you didn't even elaborate on anything just now. You're just saying that I misunderstood you but you're not really going into anything specific.
So if all you're going to do is accuse me of twisting your words, even though what i said is accurate, then I guess were done here.
I personally need religion to survive. I rely on faith, through practices and self realizations. I know many people who need religion as well.
Think about centuries ago, and even today in some places, when people were persecuted for practicing certain religions- how did that go?