"...yell at me on the street, or honk their horn, or slow down their car to drive beside me while I walk. It doesn't give anybody the right to masturbate in the store while looking at me..."
Do you know why this stuff happens? Because you're lying. I stumbled across this post and I read this argument and, I know it's been 4 months ago, but I just couldn't keep myself from replying.
I find it awful hard to believe that, on a common basis, you have guys slowing their cars down and honking their cars at you when you walk down the street. And guys masterbate to you inside of the store? Get real. I suppose that there are no customers or empoyees around when this happens. Guys just take one glance at you and, because you're so damn hot and all guys are pigs, they simply ignore the possibility of embarrassment, zip down their pants and masterbate to you like you're the fantasy turned reality Walmart porn. You're either really full of yourself or blind to reality.
Yeah. I agree with ItDuz. Big time! And this is coming from a heterosexual woman. If you don't want to be stared at or "masterbated to" then don't wear the clothes. Regardless of if you like it or not, it's going to happen. When you wear tight clothes, you take the risk of being stared at. That's how it is. That's how the world roles. No one said you would like it, but life isn't fair. I like to dress goth everyday. Is there a possibilty that I'm going to get the "She a dark devil-worshipping" look. Yes. And there are plenty of people who judge me based off of my attire. But you know what, when I get dressed in the more, I know I am taking that risk.
I'm not gonna lie. I see a hot-ass guy, I'm gonna stare at him. Why? because I'm human and I'm attracted to the opposite sex. Same thing with guys staring at you. It's nature. We as visually stimiluted creatures like to stare at things that appeal to us. It doesn't make us pigs. It doesn't make us perverts. It makes us human.
"That does not give anybody the right to treat me like an object that's there for their entertainment..." Stop fucking crying! It makes you sound pititful and pathetic. No one's treating you like some sort of object or you're not a human being, they like the way you look. Hate it or love it. You don't like to be stared at, don't wear the tight clothes. You want to wear the tight clothes, suck it up and, in all honesty, be a man about it. Stop crying over some shit like that because you're not a victim, you're not being sexually harrassed. You're simply living in the real world.
I'm done here. Tried to ignore this, but I couldn't help it. Masterbating to you in the store...my ass! I guess they have some kind of telekinetic masterbation ability where they don't actually have to touch their genitals. They can just imagine jacking off and they feel everything as if it's actually happening. And then when they orgasm, they've trained their bodies not to react. Yeah. I'm not buying that bullshit!
If you want examples that this happens regularly just look at this site.
http://www.ihollaback.org/
While I'm glad you've never experienced such a thing it has happened to me and every female friend I know. The first time a group of friends and I got honked at was in the 5th grade (and we looked like we were in the 5th grade, we were not ~*~sexy~*~).
1. Why are you using "masterbate to" in quotes like she was the one who misspelled that? You misspelled that. Many, many times. It's "masturbate", you simp.
2. How the fuck do YOU know whether or not another person has honked, or started at, or "masterbated to" her in public? Are you psychic? Are you fucking clairvoyant, able to see events from far away? No? Then shut your word hole. Or, more accurately in this context, still your key-jabbers.
3. Hey, maybe the hot guy you're ogling doesn't want to be looked at. Maybe you're a hideous hambeast and your disgusting drooling is making that guy uncomfortable. How would you feel if a disgusting fat neckbeard wearing an undersized t-shirt wouldn't stop ogling you? or came over and wanted to grope on you? I bet you wouldn't take it as a fucking compliment.
4. You're a fucking thread necromancer. Get the shit out of here.
I put it in quotes becuase, regardless of how it is spelled, it didn't happen. How do I know? Because I'm not retarded. Do I get ogled? Yeah. So does everyone else, but I suck it up because this is the real world, bitch. Time to grow up and stop playing the victim role over some shit like that. She wants to wear tight clothes. By all means, she can wear them, but if she's going to cry and make lies like a little bitch about it then maybe she should re-think it.
If you're gonna tell a lie you at least make it sound real.
Can you point out even one part of her comment where she said that she was wearing "tight" clothes when this happened, and not "comfortable" clothes or clothes that "fit a certain way"? Go ahead, I'll wait.
Well, considering that this argument is about wearing tight clothes and, clearly she feels confident in tight clothes,she's said something about how hard it is to find clothes that are loose in popular clothing stores, how dressing in tight clothes is more comfortable and that she wears loose fitting clothes to bed I would think she is arguing over her right to wear tight clothes without being stared at. Not to mention that this post was written over tight fitting female clothing, and while it isn't so much about staring and sexual objectification, I would think that it was the statement that ItDuz made about tight fitting clothes that provoked a response out of her. Read the rest of the argument.
Aside from that, I really could give two shits whether or not she wants to wear tight fitting clothes or not. She can do whatever the hell she wants, but if she is going to argue about it, she shouldn't just sit there and lie, and on the side of that, lie badly. Which I think we can both agree that she lied badly, or are you too ridiculously gullible to believe that bullshit? I typically never reply to someone's comment. I normally don't give a hoot what someone has to say, and I continue on my way. But with this pathetic crap she left with the "guys masterbate to her on multiple occasions in the store" (because all men are just pigs with no self control or shame). And then that pitiful victim playing bull shit about being objectified. It's just a couple of stares. I've been stared at. You've been stared. I've stared. You've stared. She's fucking stared (whether she'll admit it or not). She needs to get over it, grow some fucking, balls, and move on with her life. Guys are gonna stare.
But yeah. I had to respond. And the fact that you're defending her. Wow. You are equally as pathetic.
Yes, I'm the one who is pathetic. You're accusing a person of lying about being ogled, and then defending creeps who stare and hoot at women, and I'M pathetic for defending a person's right to dress how they want without being started at if they don't want to be. Phyllis Schafly would be proud of you.
No, you're pathetic for believing some shit about guys zipping down their pants in public areas and masterbating to some girl because they have zero self control, and apparently, she's that Walmart sex fantasy they've always dreamed of. Yeah, save that shit for someone else because I'm not buying it. If the bitch wants to wear tight fitting clothes then she can. Seems king of shitty to want to keep doing something if you've got people "masterbating" to you in stores, but by all means. Personally, I really don't give a damn what she does. She can run around naked for all I give a damn. I just hate stupid lies.
It sounds like some of my post may have been unclear, so I'll try to clarify some things.
Yes, I've had men publicly masturbate while staring at me. It's not a regular occurrence, and I didn't mean to imply that it was, but it's not something that should happen at all. It's happened twice in my life. No, I'm not saying they masturbated with their minds. I'm talking about people actually reaching into their pants. No, that isn't normal behaviour, but my point in bringing it up was to say that being stared at for a length of time significant enough to be uncomfortable is a more difficult experience when you're not sure if it might escalate. No, not all guys are pigs. Most men don't do that. I realise that. But it can be very difficult to report that kind of behaviour when I live in a culture where I don't know if I'm going to be blamed for it. I'm not accusing all men of that behaviour, I'm saying that we need to change our culture into one where when the occasional sicko does something like that, women can talk about it without being accused of bragging about their own attractiveness, causing the incident by dressing the wrong way, or making the whole thing up.
Everything I mentioned has happened over the course of years, not in rapid succession. But even a few experiences like that can go a long way in making somebody feel unsafe or uncomfortable. I never said "on a common basis". I have gotten a lot of honks and catcalls from passing cars (that used to happen on almost every walk I went on), but I think that might be particularly common in the city I live in. They don't do it so much now that I have my wheelchair, and I don't miss it.
I want to clarify the type of "tight clothes" I'm talking about, because I think that's one of the least clear things in this whole conversation. I'm not talking about wearing latex or spandex. The clothes I usually wear are more along the lines of fitted t-shirts, dresses with fitted (but not skin tight) tops, and jeans that fit properly. When I say "tight" in this case, I mean "not baggy".
Yes, my experiences have been different from yours. That's ok. It doesn't mean that I'm lying. There are a lot of reasons that our experiences may be different. We probably live in different places, and we may live in different cultures. Since you don't think that cars honking and slowing down is very common, I think we must live in very different areas, because where I live, it's absurdly common. I've talked to friends and family who've had similar experiences.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that I think a lot of my appearance. It was a little strange (and painful) to read, actually, because I don't. In fact, my body image is poor to the point of being crippling. I've been bulimic for quite a few years, and while I don't think poor body image necessarily caused my eating disorder, it's a big part of it for me. I'm struggling with recovery. If you don't believe me about that, there are several users here who can confirm it, including OswaldCobblepot, who's my husband, a few IINers who I know in real life, and one IINer who's quite well respected, but who I won't name here without permission. My bulimia is actually part of why it's important to me to wear clothes and makeup that I find flattering: it allows me to have some control over my body and appearance in a way that's not destructive.
Really, my point in posting about this would be null if I thought I were some sort of magical siren who makes men lose control. I'm not the only one who's had experiences like this, and I don't think that attractiveness necessarily has much to do with it. Basically my whole point is that sexual harassment isn't some sort of involuntary impulse that men have when they see women, that not harassing people isn't hard, and that harassment is common enough that staring, especially very obvious staring, makes some people feel unsafe.
Staring doesn't make you a pig or a bad person, but if somebody mentions that they feel uncomfortable with the way you or someone else stares at them, it seems to me like it's very basic respect and empathy to try to make that person feel safer, rather than telling them it's their fault. I don't want people to pity me, I'm not asking anybody to pretend their sexuality doesn't exist, and I'm certainly not bragging about my questionable looks. I brought up my experiences because some people honestly don't know that this sort of thing happens (including you, by the sound of it), and knowing about different people's different experiences can help people understand each other. All I'm asking for is a little consideration, a little respect, and a little empathy.
It probably seems really uncommon because of the fear of being called a "little bitch" and accused of lying by people like you. I'm not the only person who has these experiences. So, my experiences disagree with your point of view. Forgive me, but aren't you just out of high school? Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, your life thus far hasn't covered the totality of human experience?
Why women wear tight fitting clothes?
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"...yell at me on the street, or honk their horn, or slow down their car to drive beside me while I walk. It doesn't give anybody the right to masturbate in the store while looking at me..."
Do you know why this stuff happens? Because you're lying. I stumbled across this post and I read this argument and, I know it's been 4 months ago, but I just couldn't keep myself from replying.
I find it awful hard to believe that, on a common basis, you have guys slowing their cars down and honking their cars at you when you walk down the street. And guys masterbate to you inside of the store? Get real. I suppose that there are no customers or empoyees around when this happens. Guys just take one glance at you and, because you're so damn hot and all guys are pigs, they simply ignore the possibility of embarrassment, zip down their pants and masterbate to you like you're the fantasy turned reality Walmart porn. You're either really full of yourself or blind to reality.
Yeah. I agree with ItDuz. Big time! And this is coming from a heterosexual woman. If you don't want to be stared at or "masterbated to" then don't wear the clothes. Regardless of if you like it or not, it's going to happen. When you wear tight clothes, you take the risk of being stared at. That's how it is. That's how the world roles. No one said you would like it, but life isn't fair. I like to dress goth everyday. Is there a possibilty that I'm going to get the "She a dark devil-worshipping" look. Yes. And there are plenty of people who judge me based off of my attire. But you know what, when I get dressed in the more, I know I am taking that risk.
I'm not gonna lie. I see a hot-ass guy, I'm gonna stare at him. Why? because I'm human and I'm attracted to the opposite sex. Same thing with guys staring at you. It's nature. We as visually stimiluted creatures like to stare at things that appeal to us. It doesn't make us pigs. It doesn't make us perverts. It makes us human.
"That does not give anybody the right to treat me like an object that's there for their entertainment..." Stop fucking crying! It makes you sound pititful and pathetic. No one's treating you like some sort of object or you're not a human being, they like the way you look. Hate it or love it. You don't like to be stared at, don't wear the tight clothes. You want to wear the tight clothes, suck it up and, in all honesty, be a man about it. Stop crying over some shit like that because you're not a victim, you're not being sexually harrassed. You're simply living in the real world.
I'm done here. Tried to ignore this, but I couldn't help it. Masterbating to you in the store...my ass! I guess they have some kind of telekinetic masterbation ability where they don't actually have to touch their genitals. They can just imagine jacking off and they feel everything as if it's actually happening. And then when they orgasm, they've trained their bodies not to react. Yeah. I'm not buying that bullshit!
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LaMer
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Prince_of_Crows
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VioletTrees
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Man you spent a long time writing this huh?
If you want examples that this happens regularly just look at this site.
http://www.ihollaback.org/
While I'm glad you've never experienced such a thing it has happened to me and every female friend I know. The first time a group of friends and I got honked at was in the 5th grade (and we looked like we were in the 5th grade, we were not ~*~sexy~*~).
1. Why are you using "masterbate to" in quotes like she was the one who misspelled that? You misspelled that. Many, many times. It's "masturbate", you simp.
2. How the fuck do YOU know whether or not another person has honked, or started at, or "masterbated to" her in public? Are you psychic? Are you fucking clairvoyant, able to see events from far away? No? Then shut your word hole. Or, more accurately in this context, still your key-jabbers.
3. Hey, maybe the hot guy you're ogling doesn't want to be looked at. Maybe you're a hideous hambeast and your disgusting drooling is making that guy uncomfortable. How would you feel if a disgusting fat neckbeard wearing an undersized t-shirt wouldn't stop ogling you? or came over and wanted to grope on you? I bet you wouldn't take it as a fucking compliment.
4. You're a fucking thread necromancer. Get the shit out of here.
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KeddersPrincess
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I put it in quotes becuase, regardless of how it is spelled, it didn't happen. How do I know? Because I'm not retarded. Do I get ogled? Yeah. So does everyone else, but I suck it up because this is the real world, bitch. Time to grow up and stop playing the victim role over some shit like that. She wants to wear tight clothes. By all means, she can wear them, but if she's going to cry and make lies like a little bitch about it then maybe she should re-think it.
If you're gonna tell a lie you at least make it sound real.
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Prince_of_Crows
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Can you point out even one part of her comment where she said that she was wearing "tight" clothes when this happened, and not "comfortable" clothes or clothes that "fit a certain way"? Go ahead, I'll wait.
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KeddersPrincess
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Well, considering that this argument is about wearing tight clothes and, clearly she feels confident in tight clothes,she's said something about how hard it is to find clothes that are loose in popular clothing stores, how dressing in tight clothes is more comfortable and that she wears loose fitting clothes to bed I would think she is arguing over her right to wear tight clothes without being stared at. Not to mention that this post was written over tight fitting female clothing, and while it isn't so much about staring and sexual objectification, I would think that it was the statement that ItDuz made about tight fitting clothes that provoked a response out of her. Read the rest of the argument.
Aside from that, I really could give two shits whether or not she wants to wear tight fitting clothes or not. She can do whatever the hell she wants, but if she is going to argue about it, she shouldn't just sit there and lie, and on the side of that, lie badly. Which I think we can both agree that she lied badly, or are you too ridiculously gullible to believe that bullshit? I typically never reply to someone's comment. I normally don't give a hoot what someone has to say, and I continue on my way. But with this pathetic crap she left with the "guys masterbate to her on multiple occasions in the store" (because all men are just pigs with no self control or shame). And then that pitiful victim playing bull shit about being objectified. It's just a couple of stares. I've been stared at. You've been stared. I've stared. You've stared. She's fucking stared (whether she'll admit it or not). She needs to get over it, grow some fucking, balls, and move on with her life. Guys are gonna stare.
But yeah. I had to respond. And the fact that you're defending her. Wow. You are equally as pathetic.
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Prince_of_Crows
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Yes, I'm the one who is pathetic. You're accusing a person of lying about being ogled, and then defending creeps who stare and hoot at women, and I'M pathetic for defending a person's right to dress how they want without being started at if they don't want to be. Phyllis Schafly would be proud of you.
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KeddersPrincess
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No, you're pathetic for believing some shit about guys zipping down their pants in public areas and masterbating to some girl because they have zero self control, and apparently, she's that Walmart sex fantasy they've always dreamed of. Yeah, save that shit for someone else because I'm not buying it. If the bitch wants to wear tight fitting clothes then she can. Seems king of shitty to want to keep doing something if you've got people "masterbating" to you in stores, but by all means. Personally, I really don't give a damn what she does. She can run around naked for all I give a damn. I just hate stupid lies.
It sounds like some of my post may have been unclear, so I'll try to clarify some things.
Yes, I've had men publicly masturbate while staring at me. It's not a regular occurrence, and I didn't mean to imply that it was, but it's not something that should happen at all. It's happened twice in my life. No, I'm not saying they masturbated with their minds. I'm talking about people actually reaching into their pants. No, that isn't normal behaviour, but my point in bringing it up was to say that being stared at for a length of time significant enough to be uncomfortable is a more difficult experience when you're not sure if it might escalate. No, not all guys are pigs. Most men don't do that. I realise that. But it can be very difficult to report that kind of behaviour when I live in a culture where I don't know if I'm going to be blamed for it. I'm not accusing all men of that behaviour, I'm saying that we need to change our culture into one where when the occasional sicko does something like that, women can talk about it without being accused of bragging about their own attractiveness, causing the incident by dressing the wrong way, or making the whole thing up.
Everything I mentioned has happened over the course of years, not in rapid succession. But even a few experiences like that can go a long way in making somebody feel unsafe or uncomfortable. I never said "on a common basis". I have gotten a lot of honks and catcalls from passing cars (that used to happen on almost every walk I went on), but I think that might be particularly common in the city I live in. They don't do it so much now that I have my wheelchair, and I don't miss it.
I want to clarify the type of "tight clothes" I'm talking about, because I think that's one of the least clear things in this whole conversation. I'm not talking about wearing latex or spandex. The clothes I usually wear are more along the lines of fitted t-shirts, dresses with fitted (but not skin tight) tops, and jeans that fit properly. When I say "tight" in this case, I mean "not baggy".
Yes, my experiences have been different from yours. That's ok. It doesn't mean that I'm lying. There are a lot of reasons that our experiences may be different. We probably live in different places, and we may live in different cultures. Since you don't think that cars honking and slowing down is very common, I think we must live in very different areas, because where I live, it's absurdly common. I've talked to friends and family who've had similar experiences.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that I think a lot of my appearance. It was a little strange (and painful) to read, actually, because I don't. In fact, my body image is poor to the point of being crippling. I've been bulimic for quite a few years, and while I don't think poor body image necessarily caused my eating disorder, it's a big part of it for me. I'm struggling with recovery. If you don't believe me about that, there are several users here who can confirm it, including OswaldCobblepot, who's my husband, a few IINers who I know in real life, and one IINer who's quite well respected, but who I won't name here without permission. My bulimia is actually part of why it's important to me to wear clothes and makeup that I find flattering: it allows me to have some control over my body and appearance in a way that's not destructive.
Really, my point in posting about this would be null if I thought I were some sort of magical siren who makes men lose control. I'm not the only one who's had experiences like this, and I don't think that attractiveness necessarily has much to do with it. Basically my whole point is that sexual harassment isn't some sort of involuntary impulse that men have when they see women, that not harassing people isn't hard, and that harassment is common enough that staring, especially very obvious staring, makes some people feel unsafe.
Staring doesn't make you a pig or a bad person, but if somebody mentions that they feel uncomfortable with the way you or someone else stares at them, it seems to me like it's very basic respect and empathy to try to make that person feel safer, rather than telling them it's their fault. I don't want people to pity me, I'm not asking anybody to pretend their sexuality doesn't exist, and I'm certainly not bragging about my questionable looks. I brought up my experiences because some people honestly don't know that this sort of thing happens (including you, by the sound of it), and knowing about different people's different experiences can help people understand each other. All I'm asking for is a little consideration, a little respect, and a little empathy.
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VioletTrees
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It probably seems really uncommon because of the fear of being called a "little bitch" and accused of lying by people like you. I'm not the only person who has these experiences. So, my experiences disagree with your point of view. Forgive me, but aren't you just out of high school? Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, your life thus far hasn't covered the totality of human experience?