"I told you in the very start that you don't know much about Islam"
Yes, you said that, but it just isn't true. I know plenty about Islam and I'm a proud kafir. Besides, how do you know what I do or don't know? Just because I don't live in an Islamic shithole? (I live in the Netherlands BTW).
"copy pasting verses of Quran won't confuse me out , the only thing is that you can read them but can't clearly understand ...
Islam is not just a belief its a whole set of values, ts a law.. in which all its teachings are meant to create a very balanced society.. in relation to this I will tell you that in Islam the roles of men and women are divided such that both of them are responsible for quite different parts to play.. while men having relatively more responsibilities.. men have to go out and earn plus manage the issues out of the house whereas women usually stay at home and look after the house and family members (well its not mandatory and women can go out and earn in case of need or if they wish to, under the limitations of Islam), therefore it is only this fact where men are given a higher regard , just because they're playing a greater part and it is so practical isn't it?"
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Don't fool yourself. The Qur'an says what it says.
"it is no where referring to the harsh treatment women must be given as per your misunderstanding. or the deprivation of basic rights or whatever."
Yes it is. For example: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Women must obey men, and if they refuse they must be punished. Refuse to have sex with them and beat them into submission (Islam)." (Surah 4:34).
"I will again in the end stress that it is just the practice of those men who are away from the teachings of Islam and who do not deeply understand it."
I have heard this pathetic excuse over and over again (also from non-Muslims BTW). However, it's bullshit. Islam DOES regard women as inferior to men. You just don't WANT to see that, that's all.
"and if you want ,even I can quote some verses of Quran to prove my point very clearly. but I hope you'll get my point."
I would love that, because I DO get your point, but it isn't true. Show me how Islam (supposedly) isn't sexist. That'll be good for a laugh!
even if I give you the answer its of no use because you really don't want to have it, your mind is made up and thats it. but I am sharing these two videos to convey my message. all the rest is now on you... either you get it and accept or simply ignore.
"even if I give you the answer its of no use because you really don't want to have it"
That's just weak. You said you could quote some verses from the Qur'an to prove your point. Now you simply refuse to do so. I guess you can't prove your point than...
"your mind is made up and thats it."
Yes, my mind indeed is already made up, but didn't Allah MAKE it so?
"Don't bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die." (Surah 2:6-7).
I want you to know that I have NOTHIONG against you personally. I'm sure you're a good person (as am I BTW). I just don't like your religion to say the least.
Just out of curiosity, what country are you from anyway?
I was about to relate to you some verses over here as I already had some in my mind. what kept me from it was that they were long and deep and the person reading them has to have quite much knowledge about what they're referring to.. I can now perceive you have some but not that deep :p
i know you're a good person indeed .I have been reading your comments. and although I knew it would lead me to have long unconvincing(by which I mean neither of us can convince the other) I just commented here cause I couldn't stand the way people have misconceptions about Muslims and Islam.
and Oh I'm from Pakistan. :)
"was about to relate to you some verses over here as I already had some in my mind. what kept me from it was that they were long and deep and the person reading them has to have quite much knowledge about what they're referring to.. I can now perceive you have some but not that deep :p"
That still sounds pretty weak to me. I also think it's VERY strange that apparently it's not enough to be able to just simply read what the Qur'an says. When it APPEARS vile or violent (which it very often does), it suddenly NEVER is, it can ALWAYS be excused somehow. Like I said, I think that's VERY strange.
"i know you're a good person indeed"
Do you think that I (as a disbeliever) will be tortured forever in Jahannam? Surely, I don't deserve that if I'm a good person.
"Oh I'm from Pakistan. :)"
Thanks for telling me, I've never spoken to someone from Pakistan before I think!
cause you just deny the very basic concept even, that is "the existence of a single divine creature who has created the universe and everything it contains" . yes ,you won't be able to have the gift of heavens.
BTW, regardless of any religion , don't you ever wonder about creation of universe. have you ever thought what would happen if it turns out to be true that God exists?
"cause you just deny the very basic concept even, that is "the existence of a single divine creature who has created the universe and everything it contains" . yes ,you won't be able to have the gift of heavens."
Not going to Heaven after I die is one thing, but do you ACTUALLY believe I deserve to be tortured FOREVER in Jahannam after I die? Come on...
There are people I love who have died without believing in a God. Acccording to Islam, they are now being tortured forever in Jahannam. Even IF I believed in the existence of Allah, why the FUCK would I worship such an EVIL monster?
I think the most important thing in life is to be a good person, NOT if you believe in a God or not. You don't have to believe in a God to be a good person. Besides, which God exactly? People have believed in NUMEROUS Gods throughout history. Your Allah is just a relatively new one. Also, religion has caused a LOT of harm in the world, and continues to do so to this day.
"BTW, regardless of any religion , don't you ever wonder about creation of universe."
Absolutely, I wonder a lot about the universe and how it came to exist. I've also thought a lot about the possibility of a God. However, I think it's VERY unlikely a God exists, because of all the misery in the world (diseases, war, death, crime, etc.). Also, if you believe in a God, you have to explain where said God came from. It doesn't solve anything.
"have you ever thought what would happen if it turns out to be true that God exists?"
Yes, I have. IF a God turns out to exist (which I don't think will EVER happen), I hope I'll be forgiven. I also think I'll actually BE forgiven, since I'm a good person (unless this God turns out to be a total fucking cocksucker such as Allah). Anyway, I don't think fear of eternal torture is a very good reason to believe.
BTW, no offense, but I think it's really sad when adults have an invisible friend (God). I mean, aren't invisible friends more for toddlers?
hahahaha! just the way you say you know about it.. I WISH YOU DID! I REALLY DO.
because if you really had been knowing it the right way, you won't give reference to these ayahs.. go read your references again.. and whats before them and whats after them..
btw have you ever read Quran?
"because if you really had been knowing it the right way, you won't give reference to these ayahs"
Why not? Aren't they in the fucking Qur'an?
"go read your references again.. and whats before them and whats after them.."
Ah, the old "out of context"-excuse, I was expecting that. Context indeed is important, but almost all Qur'anic ayas are NOTHING better read in context. In fact, they sometimes only make them WORSE.
"btw have you ever read Quran?"
Yes, I have and I STRONGLY dissaprove of it. I don't like the constant threats of eternal doom in Hell for disbelievers, I don't like the intolerance towards Jews, gays, women and non-Muslims in general, I don't like the fact that Muhammad (dogshit be upon him) was a violent pedophile warlord, I don't like all the INCORRECT scientific statements, I don't like all the contradictions and all the absurdity in this idiotic, outdated book. After I read it, I wiped my ass with it.
It was a really DISRESPECTING ONE. (you must at least learn not to disrespect it , atleast infront of any Muslim)
well, I pray that Allah may guide you..
Yes, it was. I think anyone can say what they want, as long as violence is not used. I honestly didn't mean to offend you personally, but I did (and do) mean what I said about the Qur'an, because it is all TRUE. You can't deny that.
"you must at least learn not to disrespect it , atleast infront of any Muslim"
Why? The Qur'an disrespects people like me too. Can't I return the favor?
"well, I pray that Allah may guide you.."
Thank you, but I don't think Allah exists. You only believe in him, because that's what you've been taught. Besides, hasn't Allah sealed my hearing and my heart, and hasn't he put a covering on my eyes? (Surah 2:6-7). If that's true he can't/won't guide me.
Why do feminists keep silent about the position of women in Islam?
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"I told you in the very start that you don't know much about Islam"
Yes, you said that, but it just isn't true. I know plenty about Islam and I'm a proud kafir. Besides, how do you know what I do or don't know? Just because I don't live in an Islamic shithole? (I live in the Netherlands BTW).
"copy pasting verses of Quran won't confuse me out , the only thing is that you can read them but can't clearly understand ...
Islam is not just a belief its a whole set of values, ts a law.. in which all its teachings are meant to create a very balanced society.. in relation to this I will tell you that in Islam the roles of men and women are divided such that both of them are responsible for quite different parts to play.. while men having relatively more responsibilities.. men have to go out and earn plus manage the issues out of the house whereas women usually stay at home and look after the house and family members (well its not mandatory and women can go out and earn in case of need or if they wish to, under the limitations of Islam), therefore it is only this fact where men are given a higher regard , just because they're playing a greater part and it is so practical isn't it?"
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Don't fool yourself. The Qur'an says what it says.
"it is no where referring to the harsh treatment women must be given as per your misunderstanding. or the deprivation of basic rights or whatever."
Yes it is. For example: "Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Women must obey men, and if they refuse they must be punished. Refuse to have sex with them and beat them into submission (Islam)." (Surah 4:34).
"I will again in the end stress that it is just the practice of those men who are away from the teachings of Islam and who do not deeply understand it."
I have heard this pathetic excuse over and over again (also from non-Muslims BTW). However, it's bullshit. Islam DOES regard women as inferior to men. You just don't WANT to see that, that's all.
"and if you want ,even I can quote some verses of Quran to prove my point very clearly. but I hope you'll get my point."
I would love that, because I DO get your point, but it isn't true. Show me how Islam (supposedly) isn't sexist. That'll be good for a laugh!
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even if I give you the answer its of no use because you really don't want to have it, your mind is made up and thats it. but I am sharing these two videos to convey my message. all the rest is now on you... either you get it and accept or simply ignore.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1253106/honor_and_respect_of_women_in_islam_part_1/
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1252951/honor_and_respect_of_women_in_islam_part_2/
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BLAh81
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"even if I give you the answer its of no use because you really don't want to have it"
That's just weak. You said you could quote some verses from the Qur'an to prove your point. Now you simply refuse to do so. I guess you can't prove your point than...
"your mind is made up and thats it."
Yes, my mind indeed is already made up, but didn't Allah MAKE it so?
"Don't bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die." (Surah 2:6-7).
Thanks for the links. Here are some of mine:
<a href="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/</a>
<a href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm</a>
<a href="http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page" rel="nofollow">http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page</a>
I want you to know that I have NOTHIONG against you personally. I'm sure you're a good person (as am I BTW). I just don't like your religion to say the least.
Just out of curiosity, what country are you from anyway?
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I was about to relate to you some verses over here as I already had some in my mind. what kept me from it was that they were long and deep and the person reading them has to have quite much knowledge about what they're referring to.. I can now perceive you have some but not that deep :p
i know you're a good person indeed .I have been reading your comments. and although I knew it would lead me to have long unconvincing(by which I mean neither of us can convince the other) I just commented here cause I couldn't stand the way people have misconceptions about Muslims and Islam.
and Oh I'm from Pakistan. :)
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BLAh81
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"was about to relate to you some verses over here as I already had some in my mind. what kept me from it was that they were long and deep and the person reading them has to have quite much knowledge about what they're referring to.. I can now perceive you have some but not that deep :p"
That still sounds pretty weak to me. I also think it's VERY strange that apparently it's not enough to be able to just simply read what the Qur'an says. When it APPEARS vile or violent (which it very often does), it suddenly NEVER is, it can ALWAYS be excused somehow. Like I said, I think that's VERY strange.
"i know you're a good person indeed"
Do you think that I (as a disbeliever) will be tortured forever in Jahannam? Surely, I don't deserve that if I'm a good person.
"Oh I'm from Pakistan. :)"
Thanks for telling me, I've never spoken to someone from Pakistan before I think!
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cause you just deny the very basic concept even, that is "the existence of a single divine creature who has created the universe and everything it contains" . yes ,you won't be able to have the gift of heavens.
BTW, regardless of any religion , don't you ever wonder about creation of universe. have you ever thought what would happen if it turns out to be true that God exists?
--
BLAh81
9 years ago
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"cause you just deny the very basic concept even, that is "the existence of a single divine creature who has created the universe and everything it contains" . yes ,you won't be able to have the gift of heavens."
Not going to Heaven after I die is one thing, but do you ACTUALLY believe I deserve to be tortured FOREVER in Jahannam after I die? Come on...
There are people I love who have died without believing in a God. Acccording to Islam, they are now being tortured forever in Jahannam. Even IF I believed in the existence of Allah, why the FUCK would I worship such an EVIL monster?
I think the most important thing in life is to be a good person, NOT if you believe in a God or not. You don't have to believe in a God to be a good person. Besides, which God exactly? People have believed in NUMEROUS Gods throughout history. Your Allah is just a relatively new one. Also, religion has caused a LOT of harm in the world, and continues to do so to this day.
"BTW, regardless of any religion , don't you ever wonder about creation of universe."
Absolutely, I wonder a lot about the universe and how it came to exist. I've also thought a lot about the possibility of a God. However, I think it's VERY unlikely a God exists, because of all the misery in the world (diseases, war, death, crime, etc.). Also, if you believe in a God, you have to explain where said God came from. It doesn't solve anything.
"have you ever thought what would happen if it turns out to be true that God exists?"
Yes, I have. IF a God turns out to exist (which I don't think will EVER happen), I hope I'll be forgiven. I also think I'll actually BE forgiven, since I'm a good person (unless this God turns out to be a total fucking cocksucker such as Allah). Anyway, I don't think fear of eternal torture is a very good reason to believe.
BTW, no offense, but I think it's really sad when adults have an invisible friend (God). I mean, aren't invisible friends more for toddlers?
hahahaha! just the way you say you know about it.. I WISH YOU DID! I REALLY DO.
because if you really had been knowing it the right way, you won't give reference to these ayahs.. go read your references again.. and whats before them and whats after them..
btw have you ever read Quran?
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BLAh81
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"because if you really had been knowing it the right way, you won't give reference to these ayahs"
Why not? Aren't they in the fucking Qur'an?
"go read your references again.. and whats before them and whats after them.."
Ah, the old "out of context"-excuse, I was expecting that. Context indeed is important, but almost all Qur'anic ayas are NOTHING better read in context. In fact, they sometimes only make them WORSE.
"btw have you ever read Quran?"
Yes, I have and I STRONGLY dissaprove of it. I don't like the constant threats of eternal doom in Hell for disbelievers, I don't like the intolerance towards Jews, gays, women and non-Muslims in general, I don't like the fact that Muhammad (dogshit be upon him) was a violent pedophile warlord, I don't like all the INCORRECT scientific statements, I don't like all the contradictions and all the absurdity in this idiotic, outdated book. After I read it, I wiped my ass with it.
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It was a really DISRESPECTING ONE. (you must at least learn not to disrespect it , atleast infront of any Muslim)
well, I pray that Allah may guide you..
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BLAh81
10 years ago
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"It was a really DISRESPECTING ONE"
Yes, it was. I think anyone can say what they want, as long as violence is not used. I honestly didn't mean to offend you personally, but I did (and do) mean what I said about the Qur'an, because it is all TRUE. You can't deny that.
"you must at least learn not to disrespect it , atleast infront of any Muslim"
Why? The Qur'an disrespects people like me too. Can't I return the favor?
"well, I pray that Allah may guide you.."
Thank you, but I don't think Allah exists. You only believe in him, because that's what you've been taught. Besides, hasn't Allah sealed my hearing and my heart, and hasn't he put a covering on my eyes? (Surah 2:6-7). If that's true he can't/won't guide me.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page