Hugely complicated issue (which is perhaps why the dispute is ongoing, as well as because oil and gas have made people prick up their ears).
Although it will never happen, the logical solution is for the islands to be shared or for one claimant to compensate the other two and then take ownership, which is perhaps closest to Japan's potential solution.
Legally, I'd argue that China has a greater claim than Japan. How a dispute would be settled between China and Taiwan is a whole other kettle of fish, though. It really is very complicated and there are opposing arguments which all make sense.
The problem isn't so much legal as face-saving. There is no magnanimity in world politics, only posturing. It'd be nice if the issue could be resolved without the added posturing of the deployment of warships (which is effectively what kicked the Falklands Conflict off, leading to 900 deaths).
It's funny you mentioned Falklands, I was just thinking about it today... I wonder if having chinese navy cruising around is such a great idea.
I agree, it's fully about face-saving and nationalism on both sides. The islands are Chinese, historically, however giving it back to PRC would create even MORE problems with ROC.
And if this dick-measuring is not enough, now they're gonna be at each other's throats for the natural resources.
A. It's obvious they won't share.
B. Don't suppose anyone ever listens to Taiwan, anyway.
C. Japan is taking a very right-winged direction, but:
D. Would you really engage China in a military conflict when all the force you have is JSDF?
That's exactly what went through my mind. One thing I didn't mention is that there's a "coming of age" moment for each new world superpower where they decide to flex military muscle against a creditable target (i.e. not Tibet). I'd hate to see Japan become the target.
But then, as much as I love Japan -they have such a nasty history of expansionism (Dai Nippon era), war crimes and occupation that they kinda had it coming. Especailly when it's coming from the direction of "the sick man of asia". Ironic, isn't it?
And we go back to it being hugely complicated. One of the angles of this dispute is history. Another thing I read about (but don't know much about, so don't question me too much on it) is maritime law.
Perhaps it's just expansionism in general. I often moan about my culture being wiped out due to American expansionism by non-militaristic means. I do feel it quite strongly. Yet my country did it in a much less moral way. I moan about that too, although it's kind of easier when you're on the side that is spreading their own beliefs.
Hu, yeah, it's quite fitting you say that here...it's kind of frightening that todays global players on the market with quasi-monopolies and basically "owned" workers(wether that be coffee plantations, cloths manufactories, oil companies or electronics companies) seriously remind me of the british east india company.
Only they learned to have their "strong arm" be the nations they basically force into choosing their POV in any conflicts that arise.
Yeah, i'm bitter.
To the point i'd much prefer a machiavellian scheming dictator a'la Lord Vetinari to the governments we have now -_-
That's exactly how I see it, yes. And I do tend to think of our East India Company when I think of our past. Exploiting another nation's resources and "protecting your interests overseas" by use of military force strikes me as hugely immoral. It'd be a bit like going to war with an oil-producing country because we didn't like the price they were quoting us. ;)
I wouldn't say you're bitter. Maybe your few is a little "darker", but still not far from what I believe as well.
The thing with autocratic regimes -it's always a gamble, and statistically for every good monarch you'll have a bunch of his useless offspring. Until they get overthrown by another bloodline.
Who owns those damn ISLANDS -China vs. Japan?
← View full post
Hugely complicated issue (which is perhaps why the dispute is ongoing, as well as because oil and gas have made people prick up their ears).
Although it will never happen, the logical solution is for the islands to be shared or for one claimant to compensate the other two and then take ownership, which is perhaps closest to Japan's potential solution.
Legally, I'd argue that China has a greater claim than Japan. How a dispute would be settled between China and Taiwan is a whole other kettle of fish, though. It really is very complicated and there are opposing arguments which all make sense.
The problem isn't so much legal as face-saving. There is no magnanimity in world politics, only posturing. It'd be nice if the issue could be resolved without the added posturing of the deployment of warships (which is effectively what kicked the Falklands Conflict off, leading to 900 deaths).
--
Imposturously_yours
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
It's funny you mentioned Falklands, I was just thinking about it today... I wonder if having chinese navy cruising around is such a great idea.
I agree, it's fully about face-saving and nationalism on both sides. The islands are Chinese, historically, however giving it back to PRC would create even MORE problems with ROC.
And if this dick-measuring is not enough, now they're gonna be at each other's throats for the natural resources.
A. It's obvious they won't share.
B. Don't suppose anyone ever listens to Taiwan, anyway.
C. Japan is taking a very right-winged direction, but:
D. Would you really engage China in a military conflict when all the force you have is JSDF?
--
dappled
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
That's exactly what went through my mind. One thing I didn't mention is that there's a "coming of age" moment for each new world superpower where they decide to flex military muscle against a creditable target (i.e. not Tibet). I'd hate to see Japan become the target.
--
Imposturously_yours
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
Yes! You just gave it a name now, lol.
But then, as much as I love Japan -they have such a nasty history of expansionism (Dai Nippon era), war crimes and occupation that they kinda had it coming. Especailly when it's coming from the direction of "the sick man of asia". Ironic, isn't it?
--
dappled
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
And we go back to it being hugely complicated. One of the angles of this dispute is history. Another thing I read about (but don't know much about, so don't question me too much on it) is maritime law.
Perhaps it's just expansionism in general. I often moan about my culture being wiped out due to American expansionism by non-militaristic means. I do feel it quite strongly. Yet my country did it in a much less moral way. I moan about that too, although it's kind of easier when you're on the side that is spreading their own beliefs.
--
TerryVie
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
Hu, yeah, it's quite fitting you say that here...it's kind of frightening that todays global players on the market with quasi-monopolies and basically "owned" workers(wether that be coffee plantations, cloths manufactories, oil companies or electronics companies) seriously remind me of the british east india company.
Only they learned to have their "strong arm" be the nations they basically force into choosing their POV in any conflicts that arise.
Yeah, i'm bitter.
To the point i'd much prefer a machiavellian scheming dictator a'la Lord Vetinari to the governments we have now -_-
--
dappled
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
Imposturously_yours
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
That's exactly how I see it, yes. And I do tend to think of our East India Company when I think of our past. Exploiting another nation's resources and "protecting your interests overseas" by use of military force strikes me as hugely immoral. It'd be a bit like going to war with an oil-producing country because we didn't like the price they were quoting us. ;)
I wouldn't say you're bitter. Maybe your few is a little "darker", but still not far from what I believe as well.
The thing with autocratic regimes -it's always a gamble, and statistically for every good monarch you'll have a bunch of his useless offspring. Until they get overthrown by another bloodline.