I don't really like either. But then they both fall into a type of humour that doesn't work well in Britain. Many American stand-ups seem to be angry and dismissive. Like they're always telling anyone who is different than them to go fuck themselves. It doesn't really appeal to us unless it's so overblown that it becomes funny again (Sam Kinison, for example). The American comedians that the British really took to their hearts are a bit different (Bill Hicks, Rich Hall, Reginald D. Hunter, Will Durst).
I often say Americans and the British share most of a sense of humour but nowhere is the difference more evident than in stand up. I'm a big fan of Stewart Lee and I don't think most people would really count the following as humour:
Probably because there isn't a gag in it or a punchline. It like it because he's playing with the format rather than blindly going along with it. Changing the parameters of something and seeing how it bends often says more about something than just stating the obvious.
I enjoy dry and subtle humor like that too, used to be the main style of comedy I would watch but I just needed something different after a while so I have a newfound love for morbid humor. But yea, I suppose it helps to be an American to understand comics like Louis and Burr.
Personally, I think Bill Hicks is the worst offender of telling people who are different than him to go fuck themselves and he goes a little too over the top for my tastes. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like he is actually being serious with some of the hateful stuff he says, whereas when Louis says something awful it's usually just 'cuz he doesn't care and is just being funny, not because he actually means it.
Yeah, that's the thing. I can't say they're not funny. It just doesn't work for me as a non-American. Both comedians do both say things that amuse me, by the way, but I did pick on the going fucking yourself thing for a specific reason.
I also genuinely thought twice about putting Hicks in the list because I knew I was leaving myself open. Hicks definitely is being serious, by the way. It's not a joke. The thing is, I always agreed with him. The people he picked on really should go and fuck themselves. He didn't say it to make us laugh. He said it because he was pissed off.
Whereas I saw Burr talking about how he doesn't understand something (it was something sciencey) and he said some clever people had tried to explain it to him but they should just fuck off with their "magic". I know he was joking and I wouldn't take any offence to that. It's just that nagging feeling that they don't deserve it and that he was plugging in to people's irritation at those who either achieve or are clever. It just seemed an odd target although I do understand the joke and that it's not offensive and isn't meant to be.
You could have really skewered me with Stewart Lee, by the way. He is incredibly outspoken and leads savage personal attacks on other British comedians and public figures. He's generally right, though, and we do put up with mediocrity. It's actually a miracle anything of Lee's stuff is funny because he's generally being very negative about the things that annoy him. It's also lost me friends that I like him so much because it makes people think I secretly hate everyone and am too polite to say it. Which obviously isn't true. I'm one of the biggest moaners here (and in real life). I'm always on my soap box.
That's why I'm not a fan of Hicks, I don't think that's real comedy if you are just getting up on a stage and ranting and preaching, even if some of what he says has some truth to it. Being totally honest all the time is not the point of comedy, the point is to make people laugh. In my opinion, that is. But what makes some people laugh makes others cringe. 'Cuz yea, Burr is totally aware that he's the one who's stupid and insecure, but can't help but express his opinions anyway. That's why I like it, I can sort of relate to it but that's probably an American thing. I think he actually doesn't give himself enough credit though, because he'll talk about how dumb he is yet the stuff he says about American celebrities and athletes is very smart and I agree with him completely. But that's obviously totally an American culture thing so that wouldn't translate well in other countries.
And I don't actually know anything about Stewart Lee, I just thought some of the stuff from those links you posted were kind of funny. Louis is also way overly negative about the things that annoy him but he does it mostly for the effect
Actually, I might have to take that last part back. Louis hasn't really been very negative lately, quite the opposite if you see him in interviews where he's not just doing a bit. When people are open to him he's actually become much more open to what other people have to say than you'd think, he just doesn't let it change his opinions. I think the people who call him a philosopher based on his standup are missing the point, but if you watch the narrative parts of his show there's actually some really profound underlying messages in some episodes, and he works his ass off on that show. Gives you a clue to the kind of person Louis really is these days.
IMHO, that is an excellent opinion, despite your poor grammar. Never thought of it like that before but you make a pretty good point. IMHO, you always have the right opinion. For yourself, anyway. 'Cuz it's yours.
I actually found out about Reginald D Hunter from Would I Lie to You, in which he claimed that the D in his name stands for "Delicious" and defended his claim beautifully. His stand up is interesting to me, because he's based in the UK now, so it's comedy by an American, but you can tell that it's for a British audience.
Do you like Demetri Martin? I don't know how well his comedy translates, but I really like him, and he's pretty much the least aggressive American comedian I can think of. I'm really strange and obsessive in a lot of the same ways he is, though, so I find him very relatable.
I like Demetri Martin very much indeed but he hasn't been on TV here for at least five years. If you know about him, I'm guessing he's forging a career for himself back in America.
Kind of a shame (for us) because his humour works very well in Britain. I saw him live at the Edinburgh fringe one year and he was astonishingly good. And I mean *astonishingly* good. Actually, come to think of it, he won the Perrier Award that year. This is a big deal indeed. Other winners are Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Sean Hughes, Dylan Moran, Rich Hall (another American). And people like Noel Fielding, Eddie Izzard, Johnny Vegas, Lee Mack, Sean Lock, and Reginald D. Hunter were only ever nominees and not winners. That kind of shows how highly the British think of Demetri Martin. Can you send him back over here? We miss him.
Who is a better comedian, Louis CK or Bill Burr?
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I don't really like either. But then they both fall into a type of humour that doesn't work well in Britain. Many American stand-ups seem to be angry and dismissive. Like they're always telling anyone who is different than them to go fuck themselves. It doesn't really appeal to us unless it's so overblown that it becomes funny again (Sam Kinison, for example). The American comedians that the British really took to their hearts are a bit different (Bill Hicks, Rich Hall, Reginald D. Hunter, Will Durst).
I often say Americans and the British share most of a sense of humour but nowhere is the difference more evident than in stand up. I'm a big fan of Stewart Lee and I don't think most people would really count the following as humour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP39lZ1nxw4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4HKIzftp2k
Probably because there isn't a gag in it or a punchline. It like it because he's playing with the format rather than blindly going along with it. Changing the parameters of something and seeing how it bends often says more about something than just stating the obvious.
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I enjoy dry and subtle humor like that too, used to be the main style of comedy I would watch but I just needed something different after a while so I have a newfound love for morbid humor. But yea, I suppose it helps to be an American to understand comics like Louis and Burr.
Personally, I think Bill Hicks is the worst offender of telling people who are different than him to go fuck themselves and he goes a little too over the top for my tastes. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like he is actually being serious with some of the hateful stuff he says, whereas when Louis says something awful it's usually just 'cuz he doesn't care and is just being funny, not because he actually means it.
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Yeah, that's the thing. I can't say they're not funny. It just doesn't work for me as a non-American. Both comedians do both say things that amuse me, by the way, but I did pick on the going fucking yourself thing for a specific reason.
I also genuinely thought twice about putting Hicks in the list because I knew I was leaving myself open. Hicks definitely is being serious, by the way. It's not a joke. The thing is, I always agreed with him. The people he picked on really should go and fuck themselves. He didn't say it to make us laugh. He said it because he was pissed off.
Whereas I saw Burr talking about how he doesn't understand something (it was something sciencey) and he said some clever people had tried to explain it to him but they should just fuck off with their "magic". I know he was joking and I wouldn't take any offence to that. It's just that nagging feeling that they don't deserve it and that he was plugging in to people's irritation at those who either achieve or are clever. It just seemed an odd target although I do understand the joke and that it's not offensive and isn't meant to be.
You could have really skewered me with Stewart Lee, by the way. He is incredibly outspoken and leads savage personal attacks on other British comedians and public figures. He's generally right, though, and we do put up with mediocrity. It's actually a miracle anything of Lee's stuff is funny because he's generally being very negative about the things that annoy him. It's also lost me friends that I like him so much because it makes people think I secretly hate everyone and am too polite to say it. Which obviously isn't true. I'm one of the biggest moaners here (and in real life). I'm always on my soap box.
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That's why I'm not a fan of Hicks, I don't think that's real comedy if you are just getting up on a stage and ranting and preaching, even if some of what he says has some truth to it. Being totally honest all the time is not the point of comedy, the point is to make people laugh. In my opinion, that is. But what makes some people laugh makes others cringe. 'Cuz yea, Burr is totally aware that he's the one who's stupid and insecure, but can't help but express his opinions anyway. That's why I like it, I can sort of relate to it but that's probably an American thing. I think he actually doesn't give himself enough credit though, because he'll talk about how dumb he is yet the stuff he says about American celebrities and athletes is very smart and I agree with him completely. But that's obviously totally an American culture thing so that wouldn't translate well in other countries.
And I don't actually know anything about Stewart Lee, I just thought some of the stuff from those links you posted were kind of funny. Louis is also way overly negative about the things that annoy him but he does it mostly for the effect
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Actually, I might have to take that last part back. Louis hasn't really been very negative lately, quite the opposite if you see him in interviews where he's not just doing a bit. When people are open to him he's actually become much more open to what other people have to say than you'd think, he just doesn't let it change his opinions. I think the people who call him a philosopher based on his standup are missing the point, but if you watch the narrative parts of his show there's actually some really profound underlying messages in some episodes, and he works his ass off on that show. Gives you a clue to the kind of person Louis really is these days.
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IMHO, comedians like Louis and Burr are just making fun of how most of us Americans misunderstands each other, and ourselves.
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IMHO, that is an excellent opinion, despite your poor grammar. Never thought of it like that before but you make a pretty good point. IMHO, you always have the right opinion. For yourself, anyway. 'Cuz it's yours.
At least, that's how I interpret it. Obviously this is all very subjective.
I actually found out about Reginald D Hunter from Would I Lie to You, in which he claimed that the D in his name stands for "Delicious" and defended his claim beautifully. His stand up is interesting to me, because he's based in the UK now, so it's comedy by an American, but you can tell that it's for a British audience.
Do you like Demetri Martin? I don't know how well his comedy translates, but I really like him, and he's pretty much the least aggressive American comedian I can think of. I'm really strange and obsessive in a lot of the same ways he is, though, so I find him very relatable.
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I like Demetri Martin very much indeed but he hasn't been on TV here for at least five years. If you know about him, I'm guessing he's forging a career for himself back in America.
Kind of a shame (for us) because his humour works very well in Britain. I saw him live at the Edinburgh fringe one year and he was astonishingly good. And I mean *astonishingly* good. Actually, come to think of it, he won the Perrier Award that year. This is a big deal indeed. Other winners are Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Sean Hughes, Dylan Moran, Rich Hall (another American). And people like Noel Fielding, Eddie Izzard, Johnny Vegas, Lee Mack, Sean Lock, and Reginald D. Hunter were only ever nominees and not winners. That kind of shows how highly the British think of Demetri Martin. Can you send him back over here? We miss him.