Many more have been killed by capitalism. Think about it. If I count up the death totals from actions done by capitalist countries I can probably get over a billion.
British India Famine deaths and Congo Colonialism would be at 40 million all on their own. And this is just off the top of my head. If we include ww1 and ww2 we are getting close to 100 million already.
Now don't get me wrong, 1 wrongful death is too many. However I don't think Karl Marx is to blame that some politicians used his idea's popularity for their own gain while they accumulated power for themselves and gave none of it to the workers as Marx would have wanted. Politicians lie everywhere and all the time, politicians that claimed to be communist are no different. They are just like colonialists that claimed to be motivated by charity, do you apply the same thinking to charity that you do to communism? Is charity evil because some politicians misused the idea for their own gain?
"Communism failed miserably"
Communism means that there is no central government, it is a kind of social anarchy. It hasn't failed because it hasn't existed yet, I don't know if anyone has ever even claimed they had built communism even the lying politicians considered said it was their end goal. You should really read Marx and ignore what you have been told about him, I'm willing to bet 99% of all you have heard about what he said is wrong.
You're conflating Capitalism with Colonialism, two different systems-though there is some overlap.
Over the thousands of years of human history, ever since the creation and accumulation of wealth, there have been wars waged to steal it from others. That is not the fault of Capitalism and it will happen without it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of its short-comings and I believe that a mixed socialist-capitalist system is best, both need to control each other.
However Communism/Socialism eventually leads to a totalitarian state. Everywhere Communism has been tried that has ALWAYS been the outcome. I used to be a Communist myself, till I realized I was misguided.
That's also the excuse Communists use, that it has never been implemented correctly. Actually when Communism is properly enacted, the result is North Korea, China or Russia (sans Capitalism).
I've read Das Kapital Vol 1, took a year while I was in university, outside of my courses. I think Marx's ideas were relevant and pertinent for it's time because at the time of the Industrial Revolution, Capitalism really was destructive to society but has improved greatly since then.
The essence of Capitalism is that is allows us the greatest freedom and creates useful work. Yes I am against raping workers of a fair income/wage. But those are things that can be tweaked-it's been done in European countries.
"That is not the fault of Capitalism and it will happen without it."
Yes it is. It is rarely in the interests of the common person to go to war. However due to capitalist societies natural tendency to give greater political power to the richest of society, they are able to send the population to war while never fighting it themselves.
"However Communism/Socialism eventually leads to a totalitarian state"
Communism as defined by Marx has no state. It is a stateless society.
"That's also the excuse Communists use, that it has never been implemented correctly."
Well sorry but the excuse that politicians lie for their own gain and will use any ideology to increase their own power at the expense of the people and that ideology, to me is a pretty sound excuse.
"The essence of Capitalism is that is allows us the greatest freedom and creates useful work."
How? This I am interested in discussing.
A greed motivated society will always lead to money being the essence of power. Since the most greedy are the most likely to attain the most money, they are gain the most power. They can then use this power to extort more money and gain more power.
As the private property of the powerful increases the State must increase in size to enforce the private ownership of that property. Give this the State becomes a tool for enforcing economic disparity and an ever increasing one.
Democracy in the greed motivated society becomes a facade to fool the people. The reality is that Rupert Murdoch, or any rich person that desires to, has a far greater political voice than the average worker and as such the democracy is not real.
My biggest question to you. Is why should greed be the motivating force for society? Why would it not be better to appeal to the higher virtues of human nature and not the lowest?
I'd add, I think the minimum wage is atrocious. People should be given a living wage-one that allows one to meet all of one's survival needs and to save and it should also be indexed with the rate of inflation.
No question, I'm not blind to the inequitable practices of businesses, but I'd never want to sacrifice the freedom I have to work for anyone I want or start my own business (which I've done in the past).
Who do you think is the most inspirational person to walk earth?
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Many more have been killed by capitalism. Think about it. If I count up the death totals from actions done by capitalist countries I can probably get over a billion.
British India Famine deaths and Congo Colonialism would be at 40 million all on their own. And this is just off the top of my head. If we include ww1 and ww2 we are getting close to 100 million already.
Now don't get me wrong, 1 wrongful death is too many. However I don't think Karl Marx is to blame that some politicians used his idea's popularity for their own gain while they accumulated power for themselves and gave none of it to the workers as Marx would have wanted. Politicians lie everywhere and all the time, politicians that claimed to be communist are no different. They are just like colonialists that claimed to be motivated by charity, do you apply the same thinking to charity that you do to communism? Is charity evil because some politicians misused the idea for their own gain?
"Communism failed miserably"
Communism means that there is no central government, it is a kind of social anarchy. It hasn't failed because it hasn't existed yet, I don't know if anyone has ever even claimed they had built communism even the lying politicians considered said it was their end goal. You should really read Marx and ignore what you have been told about him, I'm willing to bet 99% of all you have heard about what he said is wrong.
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You're conflating Capitalism with Colonialism, two different systems-though there is some overlap.
Over the thousands of years of human history, ever since the creation and accumulation of wealth, there have been wars waged to steal it from others. That is not the fault of Capitalism and it will happen without it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of its short-comings and I believe that a mixed socialist-capitalist system is best, both need to control each other.
However Communism/Socialism eventually leads to a totalitarian state. Everywhere Communism has been tried that has ALWAYS been the outcome. I used to be a Communist myself, till I realized I was misguided.
That's also the excuse Communists use, that it has never been implemented correctly. Actually when Communism is properly enacted, the result is North Korea, China or Russia (sans Capitalism).
I've read Das Kapital Vol 1, took a year while I was in university, outside of my courses. I think Marx's ideas were relevant and pertinent for it's time because at the time of the Industrial Revolution, Capitalism really was destructive to society but has improved greatly since then.
The essence of Capitalism is that is allows us the greatest freedom and creates useful work. Yes I am against raping workers of a fair income/wage. But those are things that can be tweaked-it's been done in European countries.
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lufa
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"That is not the fault of Capitalism and it will happen without it."
Yes it is. It is rarely in the interests of the common person to go to war. However due to capitalist societies natural tendency to give greater political power to the richest of society, they are able to send the population to war while never fighting it themselves.
"However Communism/Socialism eventually leads to a totalitarian state"
Communism as defined by Marx has no state. It is a stateless society.
"That's also the excuse Communists use, that it has never been implemented correctly."
Well sorry but the excuse that politicians lie for their own gain and will use any ideology to increase their own power at the expense of the people and that ideology, to me is a pretty sound excuse.
"The essence of Capitalism is that is allows us the greatest freedom and creates useful work."
How? This I am interested in discussing.
A greed motivated society will always lead to money being the essence of power. Since the most greedy are the most likely to attain the most money, they are gain the most power. They can then use this power to extort more money and gain more power.
As the private property of the powerful increases the State must increase in size to enforce the private ownership of that property. Give this the State becomes a tool for enforcing economic disparity and an ever increasing one.
Democracy in the greed motivated society becomes a facade to fool the people. The reality is that Rupert Murdoch, or any rich person that desires to, has a far greater political voice than the average worker and as such the democracy is not real.
My biggest question to you. Is why should greed be the motivating force for society? Why would it not be better to appeal to the higher virtues of human nature and not the lowest?
I'd add, I think the minimum wage is atrocious. People should be given a living wage-one that allows one to meet all of one's survival needs and to save and it should also be indexed with the rate of inflation.
No question, I'm not blind to the inequitable practices of businesses, but I'd never want to sacrifice the freedom I have to work for anyone I want or start my own business (which I've done in the past).