By way of dismantling your example, female tourists MUST cover up entirely apart from the face and feet. Male tourists must NOT wear shorts, but that's about as strict as it gets. That gives them a fuckload more options than women.
Also, it isn't about limiting the image of beauty for women and the image of power for men. It's about limiting the power of men and women, just the women get limited much more. Basically, it's oppression, and women get the short end of the stick.
If you want to compare how male and female tourists are treated in Iran in terms of dress code using an easy and visual comparison, read this webpage about it. Men have 3 short lines of instructions, women must obey several paragraphs.
http://www.letsgoiran.com/iran-women-dress-code
I know I've spent far too much time dissecting your one example, and I'm sure you could have picked a better one that actually demonstrated your point well. In your example, yeah, men and women are both subject to a dress code. The difference is that the women's is oppressive, and the men's is hardly a blip.
Whether it's actually dangerous is another matter; if you follow the rules - which are easy to follow - it isn't. I'll give you that. But it could be enough to make your trip unenjoyable if you're a woman but enjoyable if you're a man. It isn't fair at all. Exercising what ought to be basic human rights is more dangerous as a woman in Iran than it is a man, because women are more restricted. They can do less than a man and get equal punishment.
Like I said, I never said women don't have it worse in those places, I was simply saying males also have their harships, and for some reason everyone has jumped to the conclusion that I am trying to say men get treated worse. Like I keep saying, anything trying to state men being the victim of something end up making people supporting females feel like I have opened an attack on them.
Only in the sense that everywhere in the world is dangerous for everyone to a small extent, which is such an obvious point that it doesn't need stating. Admittedly obvious points do sometimes need to be said, but that's not the case here. I don't see why you'd bring it up unless you had the aim to start a gender war.
I "was" trying to imply that the world is a bad place, and that we all have hardships, and that we should all help eachother out on these foreign inequalities and dangers for both genders. I was trying to state the obvious to show that I see a problem with inequality on both genders, and that we should see it all as we are all in danger of things. Yes, it is obvious, but I was trying to make people get the picture that I think all of it should stop. I guess I should think next time before I try to say we should see eachother as in danger and help eachother out the same amount.
If inequalities were equal amongst the genders and sexes, then there wouldn't be any inequality.
Besides, those are not gender inequalities that men traveling in foreign countries suffer, it's discrimination, which I would agree is somewhat equal amongst men and women.
However, the actual gender inequality that you've written about is very real and huge problem for women only, in the majority of the countries I've listed (not men). Inequality exists when one (1) out weighs all others. It does not mean that both suffer descrimination so both are inequal compared when compared to each other. That is a logical fallacy.
Yeah, and it's true. I'll give you that that would have had it's place in the discussion if this was strictly a hypothetical scenario, but it wasn't one. It was at least a partially practical discussion not a theoretical one.
I don't agree that we should help each other out the same amount when it comes to genders. Women are usually in more danger, so as a global society we should usually give women more help than men where they need it, and men more help when they need it. In this case, it is women who need more help, so they should be the ones to get it. In some other scenarios it's men, and if it is men should get more help to make it equal. But not in this one.
To make an ironically off-topic side-note, people really tend to dislike that you try to make the point that all genders face hardship when the link between that and the post is so tenuous that it might as well be off-topic. They presume, very understandably, that the only reason you'd make an off-topic comment would be to hijack the post and turn it into a gender war, especially as that is always the end result whenever you do make such a post, whether you want that result or not.
By the way, I hope it doesn't come across as if I'm outright attacking you. I'm not usually averse to that, but I'm not attacking you right now. I'm sure it wouldn't bother you too much if I was, but hey.
I have to dissagree, women are progressivly getting violent, and that can be seen in domestic violence increases in women for a while now. Women are in danger of people looking to do harm to them, men are in danger of those people and the people that are supposed to protect them against such violent women; the law. I agree, we have our different dangers, I just feel that the dangers put upon men are not only taken less seriously, but a lot of the times the victimizer that is a woman can get seen as the victim due to being a woman. I agree, though, in this situation women need more help.
I personally am not going to try help the female gender until male inequalities and dangers are taken just as seriously and is recognized just as much.
I can see that point, but I don't want it to turn in to a war, I want it to turn in to a conversation in which we can both agree that males suffer a lot in our society, and when people attack me for stating such a thing, they reply to me in a way that would result in a gender flame war, where as I doubt it would happen if I was to say it for the opposite gender. Nearly all of the topics I have brought up, the majority disaprove, and attack due to it, regardless of me stating facts. This website, to me, likes to see things as "men only have trivial problems to deal with, women have all the problems under the sun to deal with, and if anyone states a problem men suffer from due to inequalities, then thumbs down you get, there's no time for males mentioning the hardships of their gender, only time to mention hardships for women."
DOn't worry, I didn't get the impression you were attacking me, you are actually being very reasonable and respectful, in which I thank you.
Maybe you shouldn't compare women to dogs that need discipline. I may not speak for everyone, but that's a pretty ridiculous and horrible thing to say.
Which country listed is the safest for female travelers?
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By way of dismantling your example, female tourists MUST cover up entirely apart from the face and feet. Male tourists must NOT wear shorts, but that's about as strict as it gets. That gives them a fuckload more options than women.
Also, it isn't about limiting the image of beauty for women and the image of power for men. It's about limiting the power of men and women, just the women get limited much more. Basically, it's oppression, and women get the short end of the stick.
If you want to compare how male and female tourists are treated in Iran in terms of dress code using an easy and visual comparison, read this webpage about it. Men have 3 short lines of instructions, women must obey several paragraphs.
http://www.letsgoiran.com/iran-women-dress-code
I know I've spent far too much time dissecting your one example, and I'm sure you could have picked a better one that actually demonstrated your point well. In your example, yeah, men and women are both subject to a dress code. The difference is that the women's is oppressive, and the men's is hardly a blip.
Whether it's actually dangerous is another matter; if you follow the rules - which are easy to follow - it isn't. I'll give you that. But it could be enough to make your trip unenjoyable if you're a woman but enjoyable if you're a man. It isn't fair at all. Exercising what ought to be basic human rights is more dangerous as a woman in Iran than it is a man, because women are more restricted. They can do less than a man and get equal punishment.
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Like I said, I never said women don't have it worse in those places, I was simply saying males also have their harships, and for some reason everyone has jumped to the conclusion that I am trying to say men get treated worse. Like I keep saying, anything trying to state men being the victim of something end up making people supporting females feel like I have opened an attack on them.
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Only in the sense that everywhere in the world is dangerous for everyone to a small extent, which is such an obvious point that it doesn't need stating. Admittedly obvious points do sometimes need to be said, but that's not the case here. I don't see why you'd bring it up unless you had the aim to start a gender war.
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I "was" trying to imply that the world is a bad place, and that we all have hardships, and that we should all help eachother out on these foreign inequalities and dangers for both genders. I was trying to state the obvious to show that I see a problem with inequality on both genders, and that we should see it all as we are all in danger of things. Yes, it is obvious, but I was trying to make people get the picture that I think all of it should stop. I guess I should think next time before I try to say we should see eachother as in danger and help eachother out the same amount.
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If inequalities were equal amongst the genders and sexes, then there wouldn't be any inequality.
Besides, those are not gender inequalities that men traveling in foreign countries suffer, it's discrimination, which I would agree is somewhat equal amongst men and women.
However, the actual gender inequality that you've written about is very real and huge problem for women only, in the majority of the countries I've listed (not men). Inequality exists when one (1) out weighs all others. It does not mean that both suffer descrimination so both are inequal compared when compared to each other. That is a logical fallacy.
Thanks for the travel advice. :|
Yeah, and it's true. I'll give you that that would have had it's place in the discussion if this was strictly a hypothetical scenario, but it wasn't one. It was at least a partially practical discussion not a theoretical one.
I don't agree that we should help each other out the same amount when it comes to genders. Women are usually in more danger, so as a global society we should usually give women more help than men where they need it, and men more help when they need it. In this case, it is women who need more help, so they should be the ones to get it. In some other scenarios it's men, and if it is men should get more help to make it equal. But not in this one.
To make an ironically off-topic side-note, people really tend to dislike that you try to make the point that all genders face hardship when the link between that and the post is so tenuous that it might as well be off-topic. They presume, very understandably, that the only reason you'd make an off-topic comment would be to hijack the post and turn it into a gender war, especially as that is always the end result whenever you do make such a post, whether you want that result or not.
By the way, I hope it doesn't come across as if I'm outright attacking you. I'm not usually averse to that, but I'm not attacking you right now. I'm sure it wouldn't bother you too much if I was, but hey.
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I have to dissagree, women are progressivly getting violent, and that can be seen in domestic violence increases in women for a while now. Women are in danger of people looking to do harm to them, men are in danger of those people and the people that are supposed to protect them against such violent women; the law. I agree, we have our different dangers, I just feel that the dangers put upon men are not only taken less seriously, but a lot of the times the victimizer that is a woman can get seen as the victim due to being a woman. I agree, though, in this situation women need more help.
I personally am not going to try help the female gender until male inequalities and dangers are taken just as seriously and is recognized just as much.
I can see that point, but I don't want it to turn in to a war, I want it to turn in to a conversation in which we can both agree that males suffer a lot in our society, and when people attack me for stating such a thing, they reply to me in a way that would result in a gender flame war, where as I doubt it would happen if I was to say it for the opposite gender. Nearly all of the topics I have brought up, the majority disaprove, and attack due to it, regardless of me stating facts. This website, to me, likes to see things as "men only have trivial problems to deal with, women have all the problems under the sun to deal with, and if anyone states a problem men suffer from due to inequalities, then thumbs down you get, there's no time for males mentioning the hardships of their gender, only time to mention hardships for women."
DOn't worry, I didn't get the impression you were attacking me, you are actually being very reasonable and respectful, in which I thank you.
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Maybe you shouldn't compare women to dogs that need discipline. I may not speak for everyone, but that's a pretty ridiculous and horrible thing to say.