I hold the Bible in low regard. It is a few centuries of ancient folklore mainly intended to keep society running peacefully.
Tip: in the Aramaic language, “Son of Man” is a way to refer to yourself in the third person. You can’t do this in English, but I will try. Mmwa, the ‘Dudester’, wishes you a good day.
I actually hold the bible in a higher regard once I studied it complete with several textbooks that are used in seminaries that discuss all the various interpretation, translation, and other issues with the current bible.
I've literally got over a dozen different versions of the bible; including a 1985 "study" bible that on average it seems that 1/8 of each page is footnotes with other possible translations or explanations (which proved to be very useful).
The sad thing is that many seminaries for specific churches do not teach about the various issues or alternate interpretations for things within the bible. I found that it all made much more sense when I could understand what was actually there (where it should say god, gods, Yahweh, or another name).
I was very fortunate to have 2 different people guide me to very good books like that study bible and the seminary textbooks that discussed all of the known issues and possible explanations when those textbooks were published.
I also have 6 full yellow pads of notes from my reading and study of the entire bible.
Before I did this bible study... I had a list of about 20 things I had heard about the bible that raised a lot of questions to me (like the plural gods, Yahweh has a name - and it's not "god", etc.). I found most of those issues to be real - but, taken in context with a good understanding of the translation and other issues... that it was all OK. Only after that did I identify to my satisfaction that there was some kind of higher being in the world that wanted us to succeed in life, and there was a future after death of our body.
The thing I cannot stand though... is Ministers, Pastures, Priests, etc. who do not know the bible and about all of the issues and possible different interpretations, and for example insist that Jesus was crucified on an actual cross (and many other issues). My view is that pretty much has to be a choice to stay ignorant on the subject of the scriptures by a supposed knowledgeable leader. I have run into many who when asked about those issues can discuss what I have learned about the various issues and different possible interpretations - so some do indeed know.
I’m shaking my head. I can only conclude that the essence all ancient religious scriptures is nothing more than cultural anthropology in action. The level of persuasiveness triggers natural selection of cultural processes. Over time, only the most seductive ideas endure. I would rank the successfulness of each as follows:
1. 72 virgins in paradise. Pretty fucking cool. Worth flying to your death for? Some people think so.
2. Resurrection of the body. Wow. Some people will drink symbolic blood and eat symbolic flesh just to be eligible. Cannibalism seems to galvanize against common sense.
3. Condemnation to hell for eternity. This one actually scares me a little bit. But, Joe Fucking Evangelist will be the first one there if he doesn’t shut up.
4. Reincarnation to a higher caste. In fourth place, this is one is rather lame. To it’s credit, it has endured for over two millennia.
5. All the others periodically die out as the dynamics of natural selection would suggest.
Apologetics abound, and modern defibrillators bring people back with stories radically different than ancient predictions.
Sorry, but Agnosticism is the only thing with which I’ll ever be completely comfortable.
Full Disclosure: I grew up by the Mississippi River about 115 years after American author Mark Twain did. If I ever refer to the Lord as Jesus H Christ by accident, I apologize in advance.
No problem. It's ok for us to have different opinions.
I do agree with you about many of the above points. Some of the claims are very farfetched, nor do I believe them myself.
There is a lot of evidence that there is some kind of heven or hell afterwords. These are from reports of people with near death (or revived) experiences, and of the people who care for them and watch their reactions. But, its not restricted to one religion or culture. It's worldwide across all religions and cultures and the documentation of it goes back thousands of years worldwide wherever such records exist.
Again, I had that information back in the 1980's or 1990's before the internet.
I've previously posted on that - with I belive some links to the main evidence sites.
Do some internet searches and you will find the data.
Have a great life - and may there be peace between us.
I often read about near-death experiences. A common theme seems to be a tunnel that you move thru. An exception is my Dad who looked suddenly paralyzed in fear by whatever he saw a few seconds before he died. My sister and I are pretty sure that he went to hell.
That fear is often reported by people who watch those that are dying, or people who are brought back from near death or technical death itself. If they live they repress the memory within seconds and their face returns to normal.
Whereas other people talk of pleasant things waiting for them - and often long lost friends and family.
Here's something to think about. If you take the Judo Christian "10 Commandments" and remove the ones that specify who you are to worship and when... the remaining ones are repeated concept for concept in all other major religions in the world. They relate to how you treat other people and live.
Personally, I don't think that is an accident that all major cultures and religions in the world came up with the exact same rules as how to treat other people and live in society.
What is the chance of that happening "independently"?
What's so special about Jesus?
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I hold the Bible in low regard. It is a few centuries of ancient folklore mainly intended to keep society running peacefully.
Tip: in the Aramaic language, “Son of Man” is a way to refer to yourself in the third person. You can’t do this in English, but I will try. Mmwa, the ‘Dudester’, wishes you a good day.
--
olderdude-xx
1 year ago
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Thanks,
I actually hold the bible in a higher regard once I studied it complete with several textbooks that are used in seminaries that discuss all the various interpretation, translation, and other issues with the current bible.
I've literally got over a dozen different versions of the bible; including a 1985 "study" bible that on average it seems that 1/8 of each page is footnotes with other possible translations or explanations (which proved to be very useful).
The sad thing is that many seminaries for specific churches do not teach about the various issues or alternate interpretations for things within the bible. I found that it all made much more sense when I could understand what was actually there (where it should say god, gods, Yahweh, or another name).
I was very fortunate to have 2 different people guide me to very good books like that study bible and the seminary textbooks that discussed all of the known issues and possible explanations when those textbooks were published.
I also have 6 full yellow pads of notes from my reading and study of the entire bible.
Before I did this bible study... I had a list of about 20 things I had heard about the bible that raised a lot of questions to me (like the plural gods, Yahweh has a name - and it's not "god", etc.). I found most of those issues to be real - but, taken in context with a good understanding of the translation and other issues... that it was all OK. Only after that did I identify to my satisfaction that there was some kind of higher being in the world that wanted us to succeed in life, and there was a future after death of our body.
The thing I cannot stand though... is Ministers, Pastures, Priests, etc. who do not know the bible and about all of the issues and possible different interpretations, and for example insist that Jesus was crucified on an actual cross (and many other issues). My view is that pretty much has to be a choice to stay ignorant on the subject of the scriptures by a supposed knowledgeable leader. I have run into many who when asked about those issues can discuss what I have learned about the various issues and different possible interpretations - so some do indeed know.
--
dude_Jones
1 year ago
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I’m shaking my head. I can only conclude that the essence all ancient religious scriptures is nothing more than cultural anthropology in action. The level of persuasiveness triggers natural selection of cultural processes. Over time, only the most seductive ideas endure. I would rank the successfulness of each as follows:
1. 72 virgins in paradise. Pretty fucking cool. Worth flying to your death for? Some people think so.
2. Resurrection of the body. Wow. Some people will drink symbolic blood and eat symbolic flesh just to be eligible. Cannibalism seems to galvanize against common sense.
3. Condemnation to hell for eternity. This one actually scares me a little bit. But, Joe Fucking Evangelist will be the first one there if he doesn’t shut up.
4. Reincarnation to a higher caste. In fourth place, this is one is rather lame. To it’s credit, it has endured for over two millennia.
5. All the others periodically die out as the dynamics of natural selection would suggest.
Apologetics abound, and modern defibrillators bring people back with stories radically different than ancient predictions.
Sorry, but Agnosticism is the only thing with which I’ll ever be completely comfortable.
Full Disclosure: I grew up by the Mississippi River about 115 years after American author Mark Twain did. If I ever refer to the Lord as Jesus H Christ by accident, I apologize in advance.
--
olderdude-xx
1 year ago
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No problem. It's ok for us to have different opinions.
I do agree with you about many of the above points. Some of the claims are very farfetched, nor do I believe them myself.
There is a lot of evidence that there is some kind of heven or hell afterwords. These are from reports of people with near death (or revived) experiences, and of the people who care for them and watch their reactions. But, its not restricted to one religion or culture. It's worldwide across all religions and cultures and the documentation of it goes back thousands of years worldwide wherever such records exist.
Again, I had that information back in the 1980's or 1990's before the internet.
I've previously posted on that - with I belive some links to the main evidence sites.
Do some internet searches and you will find the data.
Have a great life - and may there be peace between us.
--
dude_Jones
1 year ago
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Just an after thought.
I often read about near-death experiences. A common theme seems to be a tunnel that you move thru. An exception is my Dad who looked suddenly paralyzed in fear by whatever he saw a few seconds before he died. My sister and I are pretty sure that he went to hell.
--
olderdude-xx
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That fear is often reported by people who watch those that are dying, or people who are brought back from near death or technical death itself. If they live they repress the memory within seconds and their face returns to normal.
Whereas other people talk of pleasant things waiting for them - and often long lost friends and family.
Here's something to think about. If you take the Judo Christian "10 Commandments" and remove the ones that specify who you are to worship and when... the remaining ones are repeated concept for concept in all other major religions in the world. They relate to how you treat other people and live.
Personally, I don't think that is an accident that all major cultures and religions in the world came up with the exact same rules as how to treat other people and live in society.
What is the chance of that happening "independently"?
--
dude_Jones
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I’d say the chances are pretty good. Those rules are the only ones that work. Societies that use different rules don’t last very long.
It’s natural selection working at a cultural level.