What do you think of pat condell?
Personally, I think he absolutely rules!
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Being intolerant of religion is an excellent thing in my book, SPECIFICALLY where it concerns the inhumane poison of Islam. The best example of Islam in action is Muhammad. He was a violent warlord, antisemitic, misogynistic and homophobic. He also fucked a 9 year old girl when he was 54. In Islam this maniac is known as "uswa hasana" (an excellent model of conduct). Thus, his vile behaviour is to be emulated.
I know many Muslims are decent people, but that is DESPITE Islam, not BECAUSE of it. Islam ITSELF is garbage. A lot of Muslims also really ARE scum though.
As for the burqa ban, it's only logical to wanna be able to talk face-to-face to people. That's a little hard when they're dressed up as frigging ninja's. Besides, a lot of these women are FORCED to wear these identity-stealing bags (Islam is not exactly known for advocating gender equality, you know). Also these women often suffer skin diseases, due to lack of sunlight. I absolutely HATE Islam.
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You seem to think Muslims have no cognitive reasoning skills at all. Do you really think they believe "Oh, Muhammad raped a little kid. Guess I better do the same!"? No, because Muslims are no more stupid than anyone else - and the proof is that most Muslims are not paedophiles or rapists.
Do you have any source to prove that Muhammad ever even raped Aisha? It's a "fact" I see thrown around a lot, but I've never seen a scrap of good evidence for it.
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"You seem to think Muslims have no cognitive reasoning skills at all."
No, I don't. I only think a small MINORITY of Muslims are like that.
"Do you really think they believe "Oh, Muhammad raped a little kid. Guess I better do the same!?"
No, I don't. Still, some Muslims really ARE like that though. Why do you think the phenomenon of small girls marrying grandpas is so widely accepted in Islamic shitholes? Because they go: well, how can it be wrong if "the prophet" himself did it? Still, it is REALLY weird how Muslims who oppose pedophilia keep referring to Muhammad as "uswa hasana" (an excellent model of conduct).
Here's proof of the Islamic connection between Islam and child-fucking and Muhammad himself being a pedophile:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia
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You can never prove a connection between Islam and paedophilia with any of that information. Even with the data pertaining to modern day child abuse (which is cherry-picked from only one study), lots of factors prevent that data from being directly comparable to data from Christian cultures or atheist cultures etc. These factors can be boiled down to biased research techniques and an overemphasis on etic data types as a method of understanding inapplicable cultures. Even then, you can't necessarily isolate Islam as the relevant factor any more than you could claim the Arabic language or having dark skin is linked with paedophilia.
Many of the quotes of that site come from Hadiths ("authentic Islamic scripture") and other unconfirm-able sources, only rarely the Quran itself. Hadiths are nothing more than collections of alleged quotes from Muhammad, meaning that many of the sensationalist ones have very little evidence and can be easily misapplied outside of the correct context. Because of this, many Muslims disregard Hadiths as an interpretation of Islam. I'm not defending the words, I'm just saying they could easily be exaggerations (remember that Muhammad had many enemies who would want to make him look a bad leader even if he were not) not direct quotes, or entirely fabricated.
I'm not arguing that child abuse and violence against women are not serious problems in other countries; I'm arguing that it is completely impossible to link them to a religion or implicate a person who lived many hundreds of years ago and about whom accurate information does not exist.
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As I already expected, you don't accept the proof I offer as proof. This is almost certainly due to the fact you simply don't WANT to believe pedophilia is allowed in Islam. You seem to prefer to fool yourself into thinking there's nothing wrong with Islam, when there in fact bloody well IS. It's funny and sad at the same time to see you using all kinds of loopholes to be able to discredit the truth. Pathetic.
"Many of the quotes of that site come from Hadiths ("authentic Islamic scripture") and other unconfirm-able sources, only rarely the Quran itself."
Still, quotes from the Qur'an endorsing pedophilia nonetheless ARE present. What is your opinion about that? Oh well, I guess you'd better try to find some more pathetic loopholes to try to excuse the inexcusable!
"Because of this, many Muslims disregard Hadiths as an interpretation of Islam."
Some indeed do, but that's only a tiny minority. The VAST majority of Muslims DO accept Hadiths. Do your fucking homework.
I believe you are from the UK (as is Pat Condell BTW). Your country is RAPIDLY Islamizing it seems. Truly barbaric sharia courts of "justice" are established, while leftist PC hippies (such as yourself) don't say shit. Tolerance is a good thing, but I don't think you should be so tolerant as to tolerate intolerance.
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We'll have to agree to disagree about tolerance of religion. More moderate forms of many religions can coexist with the ideals of a 'western' democracy. I don't see Islam itself as an inherently negative force, more that those misusing it to manipulate poor and ignorant people are a negative force. The way to tackle it is through improving the educational and living conditions for men and women in many predominantly muslim countries, since it's often in the most deprived areas that the most extreme ideologies take hold.
The burqa ban is stupid. It's stupid because it does nothing to empower muslim women who live in strict patriarchal families - if they were forbidden from leaving the house sans the burqa, they may well never be allowed to leave the house at all now. That is FAR worse - you exacerbate a situation where vulnerable women are already being oppressed, you trap half of a whole community indoors where they are even less able to interact or integrate with the wider multicultural environment they're in. So any purported aim to tackle gender inequality in muslim communities is entirely false and ill-founded - it was just a political move by the then French government to try and get votes from sufficiently scared and ignorant voters.
I absolutely understand concerns about burqas where identity and visibility is an important factor - in schools, in identification documents, in the police and so on. So restrictions on clothing which conceals your face in certain situations are certainly reasonable. But telling women they can't go to the market to buy groceries in religious dress seems draconian.
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"More moderate forms of many religions can coexist with the ideals of a 'western' democracy."
When you say "moderate," do you actually mean
"hypocritical? Because that's what a LOT of moderate forms of many religions are. You see, the reason they're moderate means they don't apply (or only partly apply) their own teachings. Hence, they're hypocritical."I don't see Islam itself as an inherently negative force, more that those misusing it to manipulate poor and ignorant people are a negative force."
Oh, please, not this again (sigh). Islam itself IS a negative force and the radical Muslims are the true Muslims. They are true to their vile faith, which is more than can be said of those moderate (hypocritical) Muslims. They may be nice and all, but they aren't really Muslims.
The Qur'an ITSELF also has PLENTY of evil to spew.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm"The way to tackle it is through improving the educational and living conditions for men and women in many predominantly muslim countries, since it's often in the most deprived areas that the most extreme ideologies take hold."
You're obviously a well-intentioned individual and I commend you for it. However, you shouldn't pretend Islam isn't a MAJOR fucking problem. It bloody well IS. Sure, poverty may indeed play a significant role, but that doesn't mean Islam is OK.
Also, Osama Bin Laden himself was the son of a BILLIONAIRE, for example. I don't think he's an exception. Many radical Muslims also grow up in wealthy nations and go to universities, so poverty and lack of education CAN'T excuse everything. Islam itself IS a problem.
"The burqa ban is stupid. It's stupid because it does nothing to empower muslim women who live in strict patriarchal families - if they were forbidden from leaving the house sans the burqa, they may well never be allowed to leave the house at all now."
Sorry, but this bit just sounds plain idiotic to me. So, because Islamic bearded fucks will refuse to let Muslim women out of the house without bags over their heads, society should tolerate ninja's roaming our streets? The problem is the bearded fucks, NOT the burqa ban. Either way, you could also argue that the burqa ban is at least a step in the right direction, where female empowerment is concerned.
"I absolutely understand concerns about burqas where identity and visibility is an important factor - in schools, in identification documents, in the police and so on. So restrictions on clothing which conceals your face in certain situations are certainly reasonable"
Good, but I would like to add that it's desirable in almost ALL situations, because in almost ALL situations you interact with PEOPLE.
"But telling women they can't go to the market to buy groceries in religious dress seems draconian."
It may SEEM draconian, yes, it isn't. It's not as simple as "they should be able to wear what they want." The burqa is a sign of female oppression and has NO place in society.
Do you even know what purpose burqas serve? To discourage men from raping women. So, women are taught to prevent to be raped, rather than men are simply taught not TO rape!
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"So, because Islamic bearded fucks will refuse to let Muslim women out of the house without bags over their heads, society should tolerate ninja's roaming our streets? The problem is the bearded fucks, NOT the burqa ban. Either way, you could also argue that the burqa ban is at least a step in the right direction, where female empowerment is concerned."
Ninjas? You think that's witty?
"The problem is the bearded fucks"
Some of the men are the problem, exactly. So punishing the women by exacerbating the situation is in no way 'female empowerment', THAT is "plain idiotic."
It's really straight forward, and I don't actually believe you support the burqa ban out of concern for female oppression, it's out of your hatred for Islam and your desire not to see any symbols of it anywhere in society. That's the reason - so don't make excuses purporting to care about the vulnerable in these communities.
When I say moderate, I mean more relaxed, more tolerant. Christianity became a pretty radical and violent movement when it became imposed upon people in Ancient Rome, but now the vast majority are non-confrontational and far more tolerant. There's no reason Islam can't follow the same path - but it's the radicalised communities in other countries influencing the perception and application of Islam worldwide.
Of course I think an ideal would be for everybody to be on the same page, preferably agnosticism/atheism. An evidence-based approach to beliefs. But humanity is more complex and varied, and the likelihood of that happening is small. There's no denying we should protect our value system, but that needn't involve compromising the foundations upon which they're based; who says we can't be civilised?
Anyway, that's all I have to say on the issue. You've already made up your mind, as have I. Just don't expect your hate to be an effective and persuasive tool in a debate.
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"Ninjas? You think that's witty?"
A little bit yeah, but that's not the point at all, as I'm sure you know.
"Some of the men are the problem, exactly. So punishing the women by exacerbating the situation is in no way 'female empowerment', THAT is "plain idiotic.""
So, because some of the men are the problem (upon which we agree), your "solution" is just to spinelessly give in to their desire to keep their women in beekeeper suits? I think you need to combat the problem, not to give in to it. This is the world turned upside down.
"I don't actually believe you support the burqa ban out of concern for female oppression, it's out of your hatred for Islam and your desire not to see any symbols of it anywhere in society."
I hate Islam for a number of reasons. One of those reasons is the Islamic view of women. Islam regards women as inferior to men, do you ACTUALLY wanna deny that? Please do tell me.
"When I say moderate, I mean more relaxed, more tolerant."
When a religion based on intolerant texts for some reason becomes more tolerant, that's a good thing. However, it is also a hypocritical thing, because the (intolerant) teachings on which the religion is based aren't TRULY being followed anymore.
"but it's the radicalised communities in other countries influencing the perception and application of Islam worldwide."
O fuck, not this PC-bullshit again. Why is it so hard to believe that Islam IN ITSELF is a bad thing? Because there are loads of nice Muslims too? Well, nice people can follow evil things too, you know? For example, do you think EVERY Nazi in WWII was evil? Of course not. Doesn't mean Nazism wasn't evil though.
"Of course I think an ideal would be for everybody to be on the same page, preferably agnosticism/atheism. An evidence-based approach to beliefs. But humanity is more complex and varied, and the likelihood of that happening is small."
Agreed.
"There's no denying we should protect our value system, but that needn't involve compromising the foundations upon which they're based; who says we can't be civilised?"
Of course we can (and should be) be civilized. That's EXACTLY why we should reject barbaric religions like Islam! Like I said before: tolerance is a good thing, but I don't think you should be so tolerant as to tolerate intolerance.
"Just don't expect your hate to be an effective and persuasive tool in a debate."
I don't. I think I've used perfectly reasonable arguments to explain why I hate Islam.
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Are you saying that Islam is a hateful religion?
Is that in itself not promoting Hate?
Have you studied islam?
Are you an expert on this religion?
If you poke a sleeping bear and it attacks you do you blame the bear?
It's not fair to condemn a religion on the actions of a few.
I prefer to keep an open mind.
Just be careful there will be a time when people will fight back because you pushed too far.
Just remember everyone is accountable for their own actions.
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"Are you saying that Islam is a hateful religion?"
Absolutely.
"Is that in itself not promoting Hate?"
Perhaps, but it's also non-violent and perfectly justified.
"Have you studied islam?"
Yes, I have.
"Are you an expert on this religion?"
No, but I'm quite sure I know MUCH more about it than many Muslims do, and CERTAINLY more than many non-Muslims do. Besides, I know of a LOT of experts who also despise the religion. Robert Spencer and Sam Harris would be two examples. Moreover, even a child could EASILY see the immorality of Islam if exposed to Islamic teachings.
"If you poke a sleeping bear and it attacks you do you blame the bear?"
Of course not. I don't see how your question is relevant though. Are you saying Western society is to blame for the pathetic temper tantrums some Muslims throw over nothing? Isn't that the world turned upside down?
"It's not fair to condemn a religion on the actions of a few."
True. I don't condemn non-violent Muslims. However, I DO condemn violent Muslims, and sadly, they're the TRUE Muslims, because, you know, Islam ITSELF is violent.
"I prefer to keep an open mind."
Tolerance is a good thing, but I don't think you should be so tolerant as to tolerate intolerance.
"Just be careful there will be a time when people will fight back because you pushed too far."
That's what should be said to the violent Muslims, trying to impose their barbaric religion.
"Just remember everyone is accountable for their own actions."
Absolutely.
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[Old Memory]
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Actually, I'm not the only one who responded. Your post, being corny as fuck, got thumbed down quite some times. Those kinda are responses too. Besides, criticizing your lame ass post doesn't automatically mean I give a shit.
Now, why don't you be a good little boy and suck off professor Nutbutter? You know you want to.
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