But it doesn't take hours of my time to tell you that every human action can in one way, shape or form be explained by selfishness alone. Heck, even if you help someone without getting anything material in return, it's still selfish... You are either expecting to go to heaven for being good (reward) and/or your body secretes endorphin (reward) to make you feel good.
Therefore any action you do will, unless it fails, bestow upon you a reward => Selfishness.
This is the sole driving mechanism behind human action and interaction.
True but self-interest (or selfishness) has also been the source of mankind's greatest achievements.
Unity, brotherhood, peace...division, hate, strife; all these things are expressed through self-interest.
Saying self-interest is the cause of all division is like saying "100% of all of death is caused by life". Life is an element in death and by trolling logic you could argue the source, but by no means the cause. I think the pseudo-intellectuals call it a "correlation".
But it's not the cause of division by me. It's just a neutral thing as I told taciturn. It's been used for great things and terrible things.
But it does bring up a good question: Left totally alone in a sterile environment, what would man's nature be? Towards destruction or towards life?
^Useless to this discussion but something to think about
"Unity, brotherhood, peace...division, hate, strife; all these things are expressed through self-interest."
Self-interest is the cause of everything (Love and Peace, Hatred and War, Strife and Advancement), not an expression of it.
The basic purpose for all life forms is reproduction, as such our bodies are programmed to reward us for actions that maximise our chances to do just that. Nature therefore programmed us to act only in our own best interest, meaning that every single thing we feel, every chemical reaction in our brains is geared towards our own selfish goal of reproduction.
This is where personalities come into play. On the whole we have to different phenotypes of personality, those who co-operate with others and those who seek to supress others. The better you are at either of them, the more successful you are (more chances for reproduction). And because personality is largely genetic the more successful personality tends to survive.
=> Division is caused by differences in interests between groups of people who have the same interests.
If for example group A is starving and group B has enough food to last them through the winter, then group A has an interest in acquiring that food. Group B, however, has no interest in sharing the food with group lest they starve themselves. Group A is therefore left with no other choice but to try and take the food they need by force. "Better them, than us."
=> Division/Conflict caused by Self-Interest of Groups right there.
As for the sterile environment... For him to be of any use to an experiment he'd also need language, because language is what allows us to formulate complex thoughts and an individual who cannot think is of no use to an experiment regarding human nature.
And even if we do manage to get an ideal 'specimen', there is still the problem that his/her personality will largely be predetermined by their genetic make-up.
If the two groups found some way to compromise that would have been accomplished through self-interest but both of these groups -believe- in an idea of "better them than us".
Believing the same and harmony of action doesn't guarantee peace. Look at the USSR. They understood the wavelength, but not the frequency.
"but still, self-interest motivated them"
Self-interest is the root of all of man's motivations. Good and bad. "selfish" and selfless. It motivated me to write this comment, motivated you to read it, and possibly will motivate you to respond.
Blaming self-interest on man's division is like blaming a sword for murdering a man when it was the assailant behind him who bent it's purpose to his ends.
The sword, like self-interest, is a neutral thing. It's used for defending or for murdering. For accomplishing greet deeds or extraordinary destruction.
The true root is ideas. A sword, like self-interest, has no internal value.
Group B could have risked starving if they had helped Group A. The chance of total anihilation of both groups would therefore be higher if B had helped A than had they not helped. => not helping is the rational choice.
The sword is like an idea, it can either be used or not. It can be used to protect or destroy. What it is used for is determined by the person-who-wields-it's self-interest.
1. What does that have to do with anything? Nothing, that's what.
And the idea, the consideration of whether or not helping them brings potential harm to your own group, was a tool aiding the group in making a decision.
2. Where did I write that? I wrote "person-who-wields-it's" (person-who... one word), it therefore is the person's self-interest, go figure.
The Division of Mankind
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But it doesn't take hours of my time to tell you that every human action can in one way, shape or form be explained by selfishness alone. Heck, even if you help someone without getting anything material in return, it's still selfish... You are either expecting to go to heaven for being good (reward) and/or your body secretes endorphin (reward) to make you feel good.
Therefore any action you do will, unless it fails, bestow upon you a reward => Selfishness.
This is the sole driving mechanism behind human action and interaction.
--
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True but self-interest (or selfishness) has also been the source of mankind's greatest achievements.
Unity, brotherhood, peace...division, hate, strife; all these things are expressed through self-interest.
Saying self-interest is the cause of all division is like saying "100% of all of death is caused by life". Life is an element in death and by trolling logic you could argue the source, but by no means the cause. I think the pseudo-intellectuals call it a "correlation".
But it's not the cause of division by me. It's just a neutral thing as I told taciturn. It's been used for great things and terrible things.
But it does bring up a good question: Left totally alone in a sterile environment, what would man's nature be? Towards destruction or towards life?
^Useless to this discussion but something to think about
--
malkiot
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"Unity, brotherhood, peace...division, hate, strife; all these things are expressed through self-interest."
Self-interest is the cause of everything (Love and Peace, Hatred and War, Strife and Advancement), not an expression of it.
The basic purpose for all life forms is reproduction, as such our bodies are programmed to reward us for actions that maximise our chances to do just that. Nature therefore programmed us to act only in our own best interest, meaning that every single thing we feel, every chemical reaction in our brains is geared towards our own selfish goal of reproduction.
This is where personalities come into play. On the whole we have to different phenotypes of personality, those who co-operate with others and those who seek to supress others. The better you are at either of them, the more successful you are (more chances for reproduction). And because personality is largely genetic the more successful personality tends to survive.
=> Division is caused by differences in interests between groups of people who have the same interests.
If for example group A is starving and group B has enough food to last them through the winter, then group A has an interest in acquiring that food. Group B, however, has no interest in sharing the food with group lest they starve themselves. Group A is therefore left with no other choice but to try and take the food they need by force. "Better them, than us."
=> Division/Conflict caused by Self-Interest of Groups right there.
As for the sterile environment... For him to be of any use to an experiment he'd also need language, because language is what allows us to formulate complex thoughts and an individual who cannot think is of no use to an experiment regarding human nature.
And even if we do manage to get an ideal 'specimen', there is still the problem that his/her personality will largely be predetermined by their genetic make-up.
--
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If the two groups found some way to compromise that would have been accomplished through self-interest but both of these groups -believe- in an idea of "better them than us".
Believing the same and harmony of action doesn't guarantee peace. Look at the USSR. They understood the wavelength, but not the frequency.
"but still, self-interest motivated them"
Self-interest is the root of all of man's motivations. Good and bad. "selfish" and selfless. It motivated me to write this comment, motivated you to read it, and possibly will motivate you to respond.
Blaming self-interest on man's division is like blaming a sword for murdering a man when it was the assailant behind him who bent it's purpose to his ends.
The sword, like self-interest, is a neutral thing. It's used for defending or for murdering. For accomplishing greet deeds or extraordinary destruction.
The true root is ideas. A sword, like self-interest, has no internal value.
--
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Group B could have risked starving if they had helped Group A. The chance of total anihilation of both groups would therefore be higher if B had helped A than had they not helped. => not helping is the rational choice.
The sword is like an idea, it can either be used or not. It can be used to protect or destroy. What it is used for is determined by the person-who-wields-it's self-interest.
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You do realize that by rationalizing the whole Group A/Group B thing you're presenting an -idea- for why an idea wasn't the motivator here?
"who wields the sword's self-interest"
Swords are sentient now?
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1. What does that have to do with anything? Nothing, that's what.
And the idea, the consideration of whether or not helping them brings potential harm to your own group, was a tool aiding the group in making a decision.
2. Where did I write that? I wrote "person-who-wields-it's" (person-who... one word), it therefore is the person's self-interest, go figure.
And again, if you deny that Ideas are the source of man's division you'd divide yourself from me by virtue of an idea.
It is unavoidable, my young apprentice. It is...your destiny.