"The only reason why the pain and actions he caused "will be forgotten" is because the people who remember will have already passed away."
I never said the pain and actions he caused will be "forgotten", because they won't (and shouldn't). They are recorded for posterity. I DID say that the PAIN he caused so many people will be COMPLETELY gone someday in the not too distant future. The reason for that may indeed be that the people who remember will have already passed away, but nonetheless, the pain WILL eventually disappear.
"those eleven million people weren't just killed, they were TORTURED before they were killed in some of the most inhumane ways imaginable. Those people WERE in extreme, excruciating pain before they were killed."
Not all of them, but plenty, yes. That's terrible, I know, but what exactly is your point? Torture STILL is potentially MUCH worse than killing and a lot of concentration camp-inmates unsurprisingly commited suicide because they couldn't stand the pain anymore. Sad but true.
"Yes, six million Jews did die, but there were also five million homosexuals, POWs, gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and disabled who died as well- therefore, there were eleven million victims."
I know (and knew) there were MANY other victims as well, but it appeared to me as if you thought there were ONLY Jews as victims (and ELEVEN million instead of SIX million). Now I realise that you DO know. Your eleven million INCLUDED all the others. An honest misunderstanding for which we both aren't to blame. Well, perhaps I should've read more carefully. Sorry. Still, no biggie.
"I didn't see any spelling errors- your English is actually very good, I never would have pegged you as someone who didn't speak English as their first language."
Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate that! I like to watch a lot of movies (mostly American ones) and also had a little English at school. Perhaps I'm not so ignorant after all? (or maybe on the topic of WWII in your eyes I am)
I was making my point about your response to one of my comments:
"You believe that the "crime fits the punishment"- so fifty-six years is enough torture for someone who killed eleven million people just because they were different?
Yes, torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing."
You said the fifty-six years of torture was enough for someone who killed eleven million people as torture was far worse than killing. But as I said, most of the people killed were tortured before they died, and the people who lived through it were tortured not only physically, but mentally as well since they had to live with the fact that their friends, family, and the people around them, died but they survived. Therefore, I found your comment completely ridiculous- you said that torture is worse than killing, for fifty-six years is enough for Hitler to be punished. But torture is what happened at the concentration camps, THAT'S why I called you ignorant.
OK, I shouldn't have said the REASON the 56 year-punishment is enough because torture is potentially a lot worse than killing. The 56 year-punishment is enough because Hitler lived for 56 years.
But torture potentially really IS a lot worse than killing, regardless. I don't see why you can't seem to understand this, as you seem to be quite bright. Killing can take only a fraction of a second, while torture can last for much, MUCH longer.
Do you honestly think a quick bullet through the head is worse than being skinned alive, or burned, or having your tongue and eyes ripped out? Really?
YES, torture is worse than death. But TORTURE is what HAPPENED to the Holocaust victims before they died. Most of the people that died in the concentration camps didn't just get a bullet in their head, they were TORTURED before they died. And the ones who were immediately killed after getting to the camps, they were gassed. Being gassed is worse than being shot in the head, since you're slowly losing air in your lungs- being gassed to death is slow torture before death. That doesn't just take a fraction of a second.
The people that Hitler killed in the Holocaust were TORTURED before they died. They weren't just shot in the head and killed. They were TORTURED.
"But TORTURE is what HAPPENED to the Holocaust victims before they died. Most of the people that died in the concentration camps didn't just get a bullet in their head, they were TORTURED before they died. And the ones who were immediately killed after getting to the camps, they were gassed. Being gassed is worse than being shot in the head, since you're slowly losing air in your lungs- being gassed to death is slow torture before death. That doesn't just take a fraction of a second."
All 100% true.
"The people that Hitler killed in the Holocaust were TORTURED before they died. They weren't just shot in the head and killed. They were TORTURED."
Most were, yes. There were people who were shot immediatly, but most were indeed tortured before they were killed, yes. Of course Hitler (and his henchmen) should be punished severely, but FOREVER? No matter how bad a crime, there IS a limit SOMEWHERE.
"Nice to suddenly admit that now?" I've never denied the fact that torture is worse than dying. I agree with you on that; I probably should have said that in an earlier post.
No, some crimes are so horrible, there should be no limit to a person's punishment.
"I've never denied the fact that torture is worse than dying."
I think you mean death/killing instead of dying. Anyway, you most definitely DID deny it. Here's a previous statement of yours:
"do you have any idea how ignorant that comment is you made? "Torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing"?"
So you did in fact deny it. That's OK though, a person can change his/her mind. Just don't pretend you were consistent the whole time.
"No, some crimes are so horrible, there should be no limit to a person's punishment."
That is the very core of our little dispute I think. I'm afraid we will never see eye to eye on this. I agree that Hitler (and his henchmen) should be SEVERELY punished, but FOREVER seems really illogical to me. Hitler lived for 56 years, so the torture should be for 56 years too. Most Holocaust-victims were tortured, yes, but CERTAINLY not for 56 years and we've just established torture is worse than killing. And even IF 56 years isn't enough, forever is CERTAINLY too much.
Should I believe a lie if that makes me happier?
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"The only reason why the pain and actions he caused "will be forgotten" is because the people who remember will have already passed away."
I never said the pain and actions he caused will be "forgotten", because they won't (and shouldn't). They are recorded for posterity. I DID say that the PAIN he caused so many people will be COMPLETELY gone someday in the not too distant future. The reason for that may indeed be that the people who remember will have already passed away, but nonetheless, the pain WILL eventually disappear.
"those eleven million people weren't just killed, they were TORTURED before they were killed in some of the most inhumane ways imaginable. Those people WERE in extreme, excruciating pain before they were killed."
Not all of them, but plenty, yes. That's terrible, I know, but what exactly is your point? Torture STILL is potentially MUCH worse than killing and a lot of concentration camp-inmates unsurprisingly commited suicide because they couldn't stand the pain anymore. Sad but true.
"Yes, six million Jews did die, but there were also five million homosexuals, POWs, gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and disabled who died as well- therefore, there were eleven million victims."
I know (and knew) there were MANY other victims as well, but it appeared to me as if you thought there were ONLY Jews as victims (and ELEVEN million instead of SIX million). Now I realise that you DO know. Your eleven million INCLUDED all the others. An honest misunderstanding for which we both aren't to blame. Well, perhaps I should've read more carefully. Sorry. Still, no biggie.
"I didn't see any spelling errors- your English is actually very good, I never would have pegged you as someone who didn't speak English as their first language."
Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate that! I like to watch a lot of movies (mostly American ones) and also had a little English at school. Perhaps I'm not so ignorant after all? (or maybe on the topic of WWII in your eyes I am)
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Lynxikat
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I was making my point about your response to one of my comments:
"You believe that the "crime fits the punishment"- so fifty-six years is enough torture for someone who killed eleven million people just because they were different?
Yes, torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing."
You said the fifty-six years of torture was enough for someone who killed eleven million people as torture was far worse than killing. But as I said, most of the people killed were tortured before they died, and the people who lived through it were tortured not only physically, but mentally as well since they had to live with the fact that their friends, family, and the people around them, died but they survived. Therefore, I found your comment completely ridiculous- you said that torture is worse than killing, for fifty-six years is enough for Hitler to be punished. But torture is what happened at the concentration camps, THAT'S why I called you ignorant.
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Jan_Zondernaam
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OK, I shouldn't have said the REASON the 56 year-punishment is enough because torture is potentially a lot worse than killing. The 56 year-punishment is enough because Hitler lived for 56 years.
But torture potentially really IS a lot worse than killing, regardless. I don't see why you can't seem to understand this, as you seem to be quite bright. Killing can take only a fraction of a second, while torture can last for much, MUCH longer.
Do you honestly think a quick bullet through the head is worse than being skinned alive, or burned, or having your tongue and eyes ripped out? Really?
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Lynxikat
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I EXPLAINED this. TWICE.
YES, torture is worse than death. But TORTURE is what HAPPENED to the Holocaust victims before they died. Most of the people that died in the concentration camps didn't just get a bullet in their head, they were TORTURED before they died. And the ones who were immediately killed after getting to the camps, they were gassed. Being gassed is worse than being shot in the head, since you're slowly losing air in your lungs- being gassed to death is slow torture before death. That doesn't just take a fraction of a second.
The people that Hitler killed in the Holocaust were TORTURED before they died. They weren't just shot in the head and killed. They were TORTURED.
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Jan_Zondernaam
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"I EXPLAINED this. TWICE."
Not to my satisfaction, sorry.
"YES, torture is worse than death."
Nice of you to suddenly admit this now.
"But TORTURE is what HAPPENED to the Holocaust victims before they died. Most of the people that died in the concentration camps didn't just get a bullet in their head, they were TORTURED before they died. And the ones who were immediately killed after getting to the camps, they were gassed. Being gassed is worse than being shot in the head, since you're slowly losing air in your lungs- being gassed to death is slow torture before death. That doesn't just take a fraction of a second."
All 100% true.
"The people that Hitler killed in the Holocaust were TORTURED before they died. They weren't just shot in the head and killed. They were TORTURED."
Most were, yes. There were people who were shot immediatly, but most were indeed tortured before they were killed, yes. Of course Hitler (and his henchmen) should be punished severely, but FOREVER? No matter how bad a crime, there IS a limit SOMEWHERE.
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Lynxikat
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"Nice to suddenly admit that now?" I've never denied the fact that torture is worse than dying. I agree with you on that; I probably should have said that in an earlier post.
No, some crimes are so horrible, there should be no limit to a person's punishment.
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Jan_Zondernaam
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"I've never denied the fact that torture is worse than dying."
I think you mean death/killing instead of dying. Anyway, you most definitely DID deny it. Here's a previous statement of yours:
"do you have any idea how ignorant that comment is you made? "Torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing"?"
So you did in fact deny it. That's OK though, a person can change his/her mind. Just don't pretend you were consistent the whole time.
"No, some crimes are so horrible, there should be no limit to a person's punishment."
That is the very core of our little dispute I think. I'm afraid we will never see eye to eye on this. I agree that Hitler (and his henchmen) should be SEVERELY punished, but FOREVER seems really illogical to me. Hitler lived for 56 years, so the torture should be for 56 years too. Most Holocaust-victims were tortured, yes, but CERTAINLY not for 56 years and we've just established torture is worse than killing. And even IF 56 years isn't enough, forever is CERTAINLY too much.
finite crimes = INfinite punishment? Come on...