His crimes left an eternal stain on human history. Children who survived WWII and the Holocaust had their families killed before their eyes, parents watched their children taken away from them, never knowing what truly became of them- people like Elie Wiesel forever had their lives changed because of the Holocaust and Hitler's actions.
Also, do you have any idea how ignorant that comment is you made? "Torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing"? What do you think happened in the concentration camps? Literally starving to death for years in concentration camps, being beaten and abused for years, then finally either dying of starvation or being sent to the gas chambers after years of surviving- a lot of people who died in the Holocaust were tortured in ways you can't even imagine before they were finally killed. Being separated from your family and being put into different concentration camps, never knowing what happened to them until years later, only to find out after the war that all of them died and you were the only survivor, like Otto Frank- living with that is torture. Thousands, if not millions of the people who died in the Holocaust were tortured before they died, with their bodies never recovered.
Sixty million people dead because of the war, including the eleven million Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, disabled, Soviet POW's, and anyone else who didn't fit in the Nazi ideology of perfection- the fact that they're all dead, that alone is eternal.
"His crimes left an eternal stain on human history."
Yes. Hitler's crimes still affect the world we live in today and always will. It WOULD be a very different place otherwise. That's just a simple fact. That indeed IS eternal. However, it is his ACTIONS that still affect the world, the PAIN he caused so many people will be COMPLETELY gone someday in the not too distant future.
"Do you have any idea how ignorant that comment is you made? "Torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing?"
First of all: I don't like being called ignorant. It's also complete bullshit and I don't recall disrespecting you. Secondly: torture really IS potentially A LOT worse than killing. The human instinct to survive is indeed EXTREMELY strong, but it is NOT unlimited. Under EXTREME, excruciating pain, virtually everyone would rather die, than keep on living with the pain. Therefore torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing.
You seem like a good and pretty smart person to me, but also as one who thinks more with the heart than with the head. Your emotion seems to cloud your thinking. You also don't need to lecture me about the many horrors of WWII, as I'm VERY familiar with the topic. Also, SIX million Jews were killed in the war, not ELEVEN million as you state.
Btw, sorry if I made any spelling-errors. I'm a Dutch guy ;)
The only reason why the pain and actions he caused "will be forgotten" is because the people who remember will have already passed away. Just because those who were affected will be gone doesn't mean that his actions never happened or lessen the crimes that he committed.
Didn't you read the entire second paragraph? I explained why I called you ignorant- you said that "Torture is potentially a lot worse than killing", but those eleven million people weren't just killed, they were TORTURED before they were killed in some of the most inhumane ways imaginable. Those people WERE in extreme, excruciating pain before they were killed. That's why I called you ignorant. You said that you're very familiar with the topic of WWII and the Holocaust, but you seemed to have forgotten exactly what went on in the concentration camps. Because what went on WAS torture.
Yes, six million Jews did die, but there were also five million homosexuals, POWs, gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and disabled who died as well- therefore, there were eleven million victims.
I didn't see any spelling errors- your English is actually very good, I never would have pegged you as someone who didn't speak English as their first language.
"The only reason why the pain and actions he caused "will be forgotten" is because the people who remember will have already passed away."
I never said the pain and actions he caused will be "forgotten", because they won't (and shouldn't). They are recorded for posterity. I DID say that the PAIN he caused so many people will be COMPLETELY gone someday in the not too distant future. The reason for that may indeed be that the people who remember will have already passed away, but nonetheless, the pain WILL eventually disappear.
"those eleven million people weren't just killed, they were TORTURED before they were killed in some of the most inhumane ways imaginable. Those people WERE in extreme, excruciating pain before they were killed."
Not all of them, but plenty, yes. That's terrible, I know, but what exactly is your point? Torture STILL is potentially MUCH worse than killing and a lot of concentration camp-inmates unsurprisingly commited suicide because they couldn't stand the pain anymore. Sad but true.
"Yes, six million Jews did die, but there were also five million homosexuals, POWs, gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and disabled who died as well- therefore, there were eleven million victims."
I know (and knew) there were MANY other victims as well, but it appeared to me as if you thought there were ONLY Jews as victims (and ELEVEN million instead of SIX million). Now I realise that you DO know. Your eleven million INCLUDED all the others. An honest misunderstanding for which we both aren't to blame. Well, perhaps I should've read more carefully. Sorry. Still, no biggie.
"I didn't see any spelling errors- your English is actually very good, I never would have pegged you as someone who didn't speak English as their first language."
Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate that! I like to watch a lot of movies (mostly American ones) and also had a little English at school. Perhaps I'm not so ignorant after all? (or maybe on the topic of WWII in your eyes I am)
I was making my point about your response to one of my comments:
"You believe that the "crime fits the punishment"- so fifty-six years is enough torture for someone who killed eleven million people just because they were different?
Yes, torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing."
You said the fifty-six years of torture was enough for someone who killed eleven million people as torture was far worse than killing. But as I said, most of the people killed were tortured before they died, and the people who lived through it were tortured not only physically, but mentally as well since they had to live with the fact that their friends, family, and the people around them, died but they survived. Therefore, I found your comment completely ridiculous- you said that torture is worse than killing, for fifty-six years is enough for Hitler to be punished. But torture is what happened at the concentration camps, THAT'S why I called you ignorant.
OK, I shouldn't have said the REASON the 56 year-punishment is enough because torture is potentially a lot worse than killing. The 56 year-punishment is enough because Hitler lived for 56 years.
But torture potentially really IS a lot worse than killing, regardless. I don't see why you can't seem to understand this, as you seem to be quite bright. Killing can take only a fraction of a second, while torture can last for much, MUCH longer.
Do you honestly think a quick bullet through the head is worse than being skinned alive, or burned, or having your tongue and eyes ripped out? Really?
YES, torture is worse than death. But TORTURE is what HAPPENED to the Holocaust victims before they died. Most of the people that died in the concentration camps didn't just get a bullet in their head, they were TORTURED before they died. And the ones who were immediately killed after getting to the camps, they were gassed. Being gassed is worse than being shot in the head, since you're slowly losing air in your lungs- being gassed to death is slow torture before death. That doesn't just take a fraction of a second.
The people that Hitler killed in the Holocaust were TORTURED before they died. They weren't just shot in the head and killed. They were TORTURED.
Should I believe a lie if that makes me happier?
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His crimes left an eternal stain on human history. Children who survived WWII and the Holocaust had their families killed before their eyes, parents watched their children taken away from them, never knowing what truly became of them- people like Elie Wiesel forever had their lives changed because of the Holocaust and Hitler's actions.
Also, do you have any idea how ignorant that comment is you made? "Torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing"? What do you think happened in the concentration camps? Literally starving to death for years in concentration camps, being beaten and abused for years, then finally either dying of starvation or being sent to the gas chambers after years of surviving- a lot of people who died in the Holocaust were tortured in ways you can't even imagine before they were finally killed. Being separated from your family and being put into different concentration camps, never knowing what happened to them until years later, only to find out after the war that all of them died and you were the only survivor, like Otto Frank- living with that is torture. Thousands, if not millions of the people who died in the Holocaust were tortured before they died, with their bodies never recovered.
Sixty million people dead because of the war, including the eleven million Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, disabled, Soviet POW's, and anyone else who didn't fit in the Nazi ideology of perfection- the fact that they're all dead, that alone is eternal.
Yes, Hitler's actions ARE eternal.
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Jan_Zondernaam
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"His crimes left an eternal stain on human history."
Yes. Hitler's crimes still affect the world we live in today and always will. It WOULD be a very different place otherwise. That's just a simple fact. That indeed IS eternal. However, it is his ACTIONS that still affect the world, the PAIN he caused so many people will be COMPLETELY gone someday in the not too distant future.
"Do you have any idea how ignorant that comment is you made? "Torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing?"
First of all: I don't like being called ignorant. It's also complete bullshit and I don't recall disrespecting you. Secondly: torture really IS potentially A LOT worse than killing. The human instinct to survive is indeed EXTREMELY strong, but it is NOT unlimited. Under EXTREME, excruciating pain, virtually everyone would rather die, than keep on living with the pain. Therefore torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing.
You seem like a good and pretty smart person to me, but also as one who thinks more with the heart than with the head. Your emotion seems to cloud your thinking. You also don't need to lecture me about the many horrors of WWII, as I'm VERY familiar with the topic. Also, SIX million Jews were killed in the war, not ELEVEN million as you state.
Btw, sorry if I made any spelling-errors. I'm a Dutch guy ;)
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Lynxikat
11 years ago
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The only reason why the pain and actions he caused "will be forgotten" is because the people who remember will have already passed away. Just because those who were affected will be gone doesn't mean that his actions never happened or lessen the crimes that he committed.
Didn't you read the entire second paragraph? I explained why I called you ignorant- you said that "Torture is potentially a lot worse than killing", but those eleven million people weren't just killed, they were TORTURED before they were killed in some of the most inhumane ways imaginable. Those people WERE in extreme, excruciating pain before they were killed. That's why I called you ignorant. You said that you're very familiar with the topic of WWII and the Holocaust, but you seemed to have forgotten exactly what went on in the concentration camps. Because what went on WAS torture.
Yes, six million Jews did die, but there were also five million homosexuals, POWs, gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and disabled who died as well- therefore, there were eleven million victims.
I didn't see any spelling errors- your English is actually very good, I never would have pegged you as someone who didn't speak English as their first language.
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Jan_Zondernaam
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"The only reason why the pain and actions he caused "will be forgotten" is because the people who remember will have already passed away."
I never said the pain and actions he caused will be "forgotten", because they won't (and shouldn't). They are recorded for posterity. I DID say that the PAIN he caused so many people will be COMPLETELY gone someday in the not too distant future. The reason for that may indeed be that the people who remember will have already passed away, but nonetheless, the pain WILL eventually disappear.
"those eleven million people weren't just killed, they were TORTURED before they were killed in some of the most inhumane ways imaginable. Those people WERE in extreme, excruciating pain before they were killed."
Not all of them, but plenty, yes. That's terrible, I know, but what exactly is your point? Torture STILL is potentially MUCH worse than killing and a lot of concentration camp-inmates unsurprisingly commited suicide because they couldn't stand the pain anymore. Sad but true.
"Yes, six million Jews did die, but there were also five million homosexuals, POWs, gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and disabled who died as well- therefore, there were eleven million victims."
I know (and knew) there were MANY other victims as well, but it appeared to me as if you thought there were ONLY Jews as victims (and ELEVEN million instead of SIX million). Now I realise that you DO know. Your eleven million INCLUDED all the others. An honest misunderstanding for which we both aren't to blame. Well, perhaps I should've read more carefully. Sorry. Still, no biggie.
"I didn't see any spelling errors- your English is actually very good, I never would have pegged you as someone who didn't speak English as their first language."
Thanks for the compliment, I really appreciate that! I like to watch a lot of movies (mostly American ones) and also had a little English at school. Perhaps I'm not so ignorant after all? (or maybe on the topic of WWII in your eyes I am)
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Lynxikat
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I was making my point about your response to one of my comments:
"You believe that the "crime fits the punishment"- so fifty-six years is enough torture for someone who killed eleven million people just because they were different?
Yes, torture is potentially A LOT worse than killing."
You said the fifty-six years of torture was enough for someone who killed eleven million people as torture was far worse than killing. But as I said, most of the people killed were tortured before they died, and the people who lived through it were tortured not only physically, but mentally as well since they had to live with the fact that their friends, family, and the people around them, died but they survived. Therefore, I found your comment completely ridiculous- you said that torture is worse than killing, for fifty-six years is enough for Hitler to be punished. But torture is what happened at the concentration camps, THAT'S why I called you ignorant.
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Jan_Zondernaam
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OK, I shouldn't have said the REASON the 56 year-punishment is enough because torture is potentially a lot worse than killing. The 56 year-punishment is enough because Hitler lived for 56 years.
But torture potentially really IS a lot worse than killing, regardless. I don't see why you can't seem to understand this, as you seem to be quite bright. Killing can take only a fraction of a second, while torture can last for much, MUCH longer.
Do you honestly think a quick bullet through the head is worse than being skinned alive, or burned, or having your tongue and eyes ripped out? Really?
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Lynxikat
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I EXPLAINED this. TWICE.
YES, torture is worse than death. But TORTURE is what HAPPENED to the Holocaust victims before they died. Most of the people that died in the concentration camps didn't just get a bullet in their head, they were TORTURED before they died. And the ones who were immediately killed after getting to the camps, they were gassed. Being gassed is worse than being shot in the head, since you're slowly losing air in your lungs- being gassed to death is slow torture before death. That doesn't just take a fraction of a second.
The people that Hitler killed in the Holocaust were TORTURED before they died. They weren't just shot in the head and killed. They were TORTURED.