You sound so immature. All you're doing is running in circles. You asked what we thought and, then, misinterpret and bend everything we say. All I was calling for was human decency...don't wear a bikini that covers only your nipples. And I am not singling out women, I expect the same from men. I.e. maybe wear swimming trunks vs a see through speedo.
You're free to go out whenever without the pressure of being "dolled up", but I shouldn't have to go to the store and have near nudity right in front of me as I'm buying a loaf of bread. That was my point.
Never said anything about sex or that women would have to fit my "fantasy". In fact, I don't have a "fantasy", I like when women don't try to be something for me - to just exist.
You're throwing every man into a box, apparently unable to see that some women are equally as sexual and objective as men and that not every man is the way you claim they are.
Again, I'm holding women AND men to the same standard and I'm not even talking strictly about sex...I'm saying general preference on the people I want in my life...even friends.
I go to the store, too, early in the morning on occasion having not showered and just out of bed. If people judge me, so be it. I'm pretty self aware as is. I don't know what else to tell you other than 100% agreeing with everything you say as it seems is all you want.
Have you ever had a woman come up to you and physically corner you so they could talk to you about what you're wearing, why it's not sexy enough because you're beautiful and you should want men to want you? And then when you say that you don't want to talk to them, they move closer and try to touch you and ask you if you want go somewhere and you're looking around and people are seeing that this is happening and nobody's doing anything and you're scared because this woman is twice your size and you're alone and if you do manage to leave, this woman could follow you and grab you and take you and you know even if you dial 911, no one will get there before that happens? I didn't think so.
Are you saying sexual advancements at the workplace, dare I say sexual harassment, isn't a big deal that it warrants a sarcastic response, or does it only warrant such a response when it's a man experiencing it?
Can you tell me again how you're not trying to target people when you belittle everyone who doesn't agree that the boogeyman is behind every corner?
Absolutely. We are emotional beings, we are subjective beings, and it's easy to get caught up in one's own pain and forget about what others go through. But empathy is such an important virtue, and if we really want to try to make this a better world, we need never to forget - everyone is fighting their own battles, and bad things can happen to anyone and be perpetrated by anyone.
I think, ultimately (and I apologise for speaking out of turn in such a way) that OPs heart is in the right place, but that they're very caught up in their own pain right now and so lashing out at anyone who may be perceived as complicit in that. I can empathize... I used to be a lot angrier about these things too, and conducted myself similarly. It took growing up and working on getting past my own traumas to find that middle ground. It is so important that with divisive issues such as this we never forget that's a human on the other end of things.. we all have our trials to deal with, and those will color our perspectives.
I've had a girl come up to me and closed me off from exiting to force a kiss on me while trying to fondle me and then slap me for not wanting to and then trying to kiss me again. Nobody done a thing, even after she tried to follow me.
Regardless, shitty people exist. This is what the authorities are for.
I also noticed holes in your story. You seem to make it known people are seeing this happen and then you're saying you're alone? We both know that if this happened in public that many people would intervene.
You know, I really wish your last statement was true. I'm not saying it's an all the time sort of thing, but the bystander effect is quite powerful and I have seen things too many times myself where people do not intervene.
Don't get me wrong, I do truly believe that most people are generally good, or try to be, even if we all have different ways of showing that or desires for how we want to make the world better. But when confronted with something like that, there are all too often those who don't help... either becasue they're afraid of the confrontation, because they believe - say in a crowd - that someone else will, or simply because they do not believe it's any of their business.
It's something that's honestly really bothered me in recent years.. see say a youtube video of someone being hurt, or being assaulted... and rather than intervene everyone standing around pulls out their phones and starts recording. I've been the first to be on the scene when I've seen an accident as countless people go by, I've picked up a drunk girl passed out on a busy street whom everyone ignored... and I myself found myself once trapped in an abusive relationship - in an apartment building where I know neighbors could hear what he was doing. No one ever called the police, no one ever said a damned thing.
It sounds like even in your anecdote... no one helped you. And that's terrible and I'm so glad you're okay... anyone can be a psychopath, and I am so sorry no one attempted to intervene on your behalf.
It's not necessarily something I feel makes people "bad" - though I'd have some strong words for the ones who see something going down, and instead of calling for help, decide they're going to post it on youtube - more so that it's a defense mechanism of not getting involved, or the results of say, bystander effect or just world fallacy - cognitive biases that are oftentimes unconconscious that need to be consciously overcame.
I try every day to not let myself fall prey to such biases, and to actually step in and do something because I've seen first hand how often no one else will. Hopefully by being the types of people who would step in and do something about it, others will be inspired to do the same. We're all in this crazy dance of life togther, we should do what we can to help one another.
That got a bit rambly so apologies for that - it's something I've felt rather strongly about for some time now. Shitty people do exist... I hope that together the rest of us can make it a world in which we protect each other from them.
I'll agree that there are things where people don't intervene but male on female violence is one of those things that rarely are ignored, especially if it's a full blown rape. I'd say the dynamics between a crowd and violence differs on who is committing a crime and who is suffering from one. For example, a guy fighting a guy, nobody would intervene, a woman fighting a woman, nobody would intervene, a woman hitting a guy, nobody would intervene, and a guy fighting (beating) a woman, people certainly intervene (Unless the woman has been attacking people prior).
Not saying this is the case all the time but most times I would say it's how it goes, heck I even stepped up a few times in my younger years when I've seen it happen, not to toot my own horn. I remember I got tackled by some guy because he assumed I was hitting my friend when we were just play fighting (The poor guy ended up getting cussed out by my friend haha).
And aye, same here in regards to the drunk girl thing. I've had to get a few home myself, although I tend to make sure I have a friend with me just incase some wild accussation is made. One time I actually felt like I was being assumed of trying to take advantage of one by two guys because they seen me and my buddy trying to get her home, which is obviously a good thing but it felt humiliating. Lol.
As for the abuse part you spoke of, I'm sorry that such a thing happened but I don't know if it's comparable to being in a public space and seeing abuse. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your abuse isn't bad, I think it's worse that you'd be a victim of abuse in your own home, however the public can't gage 100% what's going on as they would be able to a public assault. I was at a clients one time working and it sounded like there was a domestic. I have to admit, I had no idea what was going on so I didn't make the call. Turns out it was someone I know and the police did eventually come. At the time I was out having a smoke and she got escorted out and put in the car (I still don't know what was going on) and she turned to me because I was out there and screamed at me for calling the police even though I hadn't.
Aye, it is an iffy one I went through, it didn't just stop that night. I think part of why nobody stepped in is because I'm a well-built guy so it was just assumed I feel no pain, and that I'm a guy so I must be wanting to fuck her. Haha.
So while I agree in most common cases of violence, what you say is true but I think it differs when in public violence happens in regards to who is hitting who and the seriousness of what's happening.
It's good you step in, though. I can't say I do as much anymore because it could risk my job and stuff if I'm caught getting into fights and shit.
That's true. I enjoy watching the What Would You Do videos on youtube, I wonder if they've done one with a male victim. Should look that up. I've seen a few where they change race, gender, age etc on people in the scenarios and surprsingly haven't seen one yet where it made a difference in intervention. The only one I recall where very few people intervened was, oddly enough, them acting out a scene of a 15 year old who was being forced into marriage, though I feel it had more to do with the area they were in (near the LDS cult town).
And that's true, sometimes it's vague. I know I've questioned before if I need to get involved and once or twice was proven wrong, though never in a "calling the police" sort of scenario. I certainly can't blame anyone for not doing anything, even if a part of me wished for it at the time. The guy in question actually apparently has grown up a lot since the time we dated and I left him and is now in a healthy relationship after dealing with his anger issues, so in hindsight I'm glad nothing more came of it and that he was able to grow past that and become a better person.
And I guess I get that, but at the same time physical strength isn't everything when it comes to cases of abuse, especially say in the context of a relationship and I wish more people would understand that. I've known several guys who were raped. Didn't matter if the girl was weaker than them, almost all of them were in cases of extreme intoxication... one friend woke up in his bed to a girl on top of him. :/ We really need to take male abuse more seriously, and abuse other than physical... psychological or emotional abuse can be equally as damaging, and in plenty of cases those mental injuries take the longest to heal.
Hah, can't really blame you there, I'm a small girl myself so any intervention on my part would simply be trying to deescalate, I wouldn't stand a chance if it came to blows with most people and honestly, probably would effect my own employment as well if I wound up being charged since most management positions go off background checks.
Late response I know but your reply was very well thought out and I'd have felt bad if I didnt. Hope life is treating you well and you're not still dealing with any of the crazies out there.
Seriously Guys..
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You sound so immature. All you're doing is running in circles. You asked what we thought and, then, misinterpret and bend everything we say. All I was calling for was human decency...don't wear a bikini that covers only your nipples. And I am not singling out women, I expect the same from men. I.e. maybe wear swimming trunks vs a see through speedo.
You're free to go out whenever without the pressure of being "dolled up", but I shouldn't have to go to the store and have near nudity right in front of me as I'm buying a loaf of bread. That was my point.
Never said anything about sex or that women would have to fit my "fantasy". In fact, I don't have a "fantasy", I like when women don't try to be something for me - to just exist.
You're throwing every man into a box, apparently unable to see that some women are equally as sexual and objective as men and that not every man is the way you claim they are.
Again, I'm holding women AND men to the same standard and I'm not even talking strictly about sex...I'm saying general preference on the people I want in my life...even friends.
I go to the store, too, early in the morning on occasion having not showered and just out of bed. If people judge me, so be it. I'm pretty self aware as is. I don't know what else to tell you other than 100% agreeing with everything you say as it seems is all you want.
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deepdrowning
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Anonymous Post Author
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Oh my gosh.. The post says she doesn't like men telling women what they should wear.
Have you ever had a woman come up to you and physically corner you so they could talk to you about what you're wearing, why it's not sexy enough because you're beautiful and you should want men to want you? And then when you say that you don't want to talk to them, they move closer and try to touch you and ask you if you want go somewhere and you're looking around and people are seeing that this is happening and nobody's doing anything and you're scared because this woman is twice your size and you're alone and if you do manage to leave, this woman could follow you and grab you and take you and you know even if you dial 911, no one will get there before that happens? I didn't think so.
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[Old Memory]
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No, but I've lost jobs because of women who flirt with me while they have a boyfriend - tripping over chairs to get me to notice them and much worse.
People suck, I agree.
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Anonymous Post Author
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Really? Oh, no. How difficult for you.
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[Old Memory]
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Are you saying sexual advancements at the workplace, dare I say sexual harassment, isn't a big deal that it warrants a sarcastic response, or does it only warrant such a response when it's a man experiencing it?
Can you tell me again how you're not trying to target people when you belittle everyone who doesn't agree that the boogeyman is behind every corner?
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Hateful1
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This is where I disagree with OP. Sexual harassment can happen to anyone, by anyone.
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shade_ilmaendu
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Absolutely. We are emotional beings, we are subjective beings, and it's easy to get caught up in one's own pain and forget about what others go through. But empathy is such an important virtue, and if we really want to try to make this a better world, we need never to forget - everyone is fighting their own battles, and bad things can happen to anyone and be perpetrated by anyone.
I think, ultimately (and I apologise for speaking out of turn in such a way) that OPs heart is in the right place, but that they're very caught up in their own pain right now and so lashing out at anyone who may be perceived as complicit in that. I can empathize... I used to be a lot angrier about these things too, and conducted myself similarly. It took growing up and working on getting past my own traumas to find that middle ground. It is so important that with divisive issues such as this we never forget that's a human on the other end of things.. we all have our trials to deal with, and those will color our perspectives.
Oh on, you said Boogy Man you should have said Boogy Women. We don't want to Mansplain to him.
I've had a girl come up to me and closed me off from exiting to force a kiss on me while trying to fondle me and then slap me for not wanting to and then trying to kiss me again. Nobody done a thing, even after she tried to follow me.
Regardless, shitty people exist. This is what the authorities are for.
I also noticed holes in your story. You seem to make it known people are seeing this happen and then you're saying you're alone? We both know that if this happened in public that many people would intervene.
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shade_ilmaendu
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You know, I really wish your last statement was true. I'm not saying it's an all the time sort of thing, but the bystander effect is quite powerful and I have seen things too many times myself where people do not intervene.
Don't get me wrong, I do truly believe that most people are generally good, or try to be, even if we all have different ways of showing that or desires for how we want to make the world better. But when confronted with something like that, there are all too often those who don't help... either becasue they're afraid of the confrontation, because they believe - say in a crowd - that someone else will, or simply because they do not believe it's any of their business.
It's something that's honestly really bothered me in recent years.. see say a youtube video of someone being hurt, or being assaulted... and rather than intervene everyone standing around pulls out their phones and starts recording. I've been the first to be on the scene when I've seen an accident as countless people go by, I've picked up a drunk girl passed out on a busy street whom everyone ignored... and I myself found myself once trapped in an abusive relationship - in an apartment building where I know neighbors could hear what he was doing. No one ever called the police, no one ever said a damned thing.
It sounds like even in your anecdote... no one helped you. And that's terrible and I'm so glad you're okay... anyone can be a psychopath, and I am so sorry no one attempted to intervene on your behalf.
It's not necessarily something I feel makes people "bad" - though I'd have some strong words for the ones who see something going down, and instead of calling for help, decide they're going to post it on youtube - more so that it's a defense mechanism of not getting involved, or the results of say, bystander effect or just world fallacy - cognitive biases that are oftentimes unconconscious that need to be consciously overcame.
I try every day to not let myself fall prey to such biases, and to actually step in and do something because I've seen first hand how often no one else will. Hopefully by being the types of people who would step in and do something about it, others will be inspired to do the same. We're all in this crazy dance of life togther, we should do what we can to help one another.
That got a bit rambly so apologies for that - it's something I've felt rather strongly about for some time now. Shitty people do exist... I hope that together the rest of us can make it a world in which we protect each other from them.
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[Old Memory]
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I'll agree that there are things where people don't intervene but male on female violence is one of those things that rarely are ignored, especially if it's a full blown rape. I'd say the dynamics between a crowd and violence differs on who is committing a crime and who is suffering from one. For example, a guy fighting a guy, nobody would intervene, a woman fighting a woman, nobody would intervene, a woman hitting a guy, nobody would intervene, and a guy fighting (beating) a woman, people certainly intervene (Unless the woman has been attacking people prior).
Not saying this is the case all the time but most times I would say it's how it goes, heck I even stepped up a few times in my younger years when I've seen it happen, not to toot my own horn. I remember I got tackled by some guy because he assumed I was hitting my friend when we were just play fighting (The poor guy ended up getting cussed out by my friend haha).
And aye, same here in regards to the drunk girl thing. I've had to get a few home myself, although I tend to make sure I have a friend with me just incase some wild accussation is made. One time I actually felt like I was being assumed of trying to take advantage of one by two guys because they seen me and my buddy trying to get her home, which is obviously a good thing but it felt humiliating. Lol.
As for the abuse part you spoke of, I'm sorry that such a thing happened but I don't know if it's comparable to being in a public space and seeing abuse. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your abuse isn't bad, I think it's worse that you'd be a victim of abuse in your own home, however the public can't gage 100% what's going on as they would be able to a public assault. I was at a clients one time working and it sounded like there was a domestic. I have to admit, I had no idea what was going on so I didn't make the call. Turns out it was someone I know and the police did eventually come. At the time I was out having a smoke and she got escorted out and put in the car (I still don't know what was going on) and she turned to me because I was out there and screamed at me for calling the police even though I hadn't.
Aye, it is an iffy one I went through, it didn't just stop that night. I think part of why nobody stepped in is because I'm a well-built guy so it was just assumed I feel no pain, and that I'm a guy so I must be wanting to fuck her. Haha.
So while I agree in most common cases of violence, what you say is true but I think it differs when in public violence happens in regards to who is hitting who and the seriousness of what's happening.
It's good you step in, though. I can't say I do as much anymore because it could risk my job and stuff if I'm caught getting into fights and shit.
Hey, no apologies. It was a good response. :)
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shade_ilmaendu
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That's true. I enjoy watching the What Would You Do videos on youtube, I wonder if they've done one with a male victim. Should look that up. I've seen a few where they change race, gender, age etc on people in the scenarios and surprsingly haven't seen one yet where it made a difference in intervention. The only one I recall where very few people intervened was, oddly enough, them acting out a scene of a 15 year old who was being forced into marriage, though I feel it had more to do with the area they were in (near the LDS cult town).
And that's true, sometimes it's vague. I know I've questioned before if I need to get involved and once or twice was proven wrong, though never in a "calling the police" sort of scenario. I certainly can't blame anyone for not doing anything, even if a part of me wished for it at the time. The guy in question actually apparently has grown up a lot since the time we dated and I left him and is now in a healthy relationship after dealing with his anger issues, so in hindsight I'm glad nothing more came of it and that he was able to grow past that and become a better person.
And I guess I get that, but at the same time physical strength isn't everything when it comes to cases of abuse, especially say in the context of a relationship and I wish more people would understand that. I've known several guys who were raped. Didn't matter if the girl was weaker than them, almost all of them were in cases of extreme intoxication... one friend woke up in his bed to a girl on top of him. :/ We really need to take male abuse more seriously, and abuse other than physical... psychological or emotional abuse can be equally as damaging, and in plenty of cases those mental injuries take the longest to heal.
Hah, can't really blame you there, I'm a small girl myself so any intervention on my part would simply be trying to deescalate, I wouldn't stand a chance if it came to blows with most people and honestly, probably would effect my own employment as well if I wound up being charged since most management positions go off background checks.
Late response I know but your reply was very well thought out and I'd have felt bad if I didnt. Hope life is treating you well and you're not still dealing with any of the crazies out there.