Obvious? Yes and no. One could think that the 15% that don't claim a religion are the ones in prison, but that's not the way it is. It's the religious folks that are in prison. I pointed that out because it's one of the only solid statistical facts to support the theory that religious people aren't 'better ctizens'.
Exactly, but it was worded such that it seemed to try to imply a connection between "criminal and religious sociology", when really, it's an incredibly obvious statistic. I'm sure 80% of people who buy orange juice are religious too. There is no categorical connection between the two. That's my only point.
It's not exactly obvious though. If religious people were better citizens, then they would make up a lower percent of prison population.
It's all about proportions.
Men make up roughly 50% of the population, but about 92% of the prison population. Are you saying you can't draw conclusions from that? I don't see how you can't connect the whole proportional thing. If religious people were 'better' then they'd have a disproportionately lower number of inmates as compared to the general population.
You clearly didn't read what I wrote - I'm arguing against the idea that religion has any effect on being a better person. We're agreeing. Please go back and read my comment.
Don't a lot of priests and ministers go around prisons? And once you've been sentenced to jail you might be looking for some forgiveness! I don't think the number of religious peoples in prisons vs non-religious is a fair statistic to use.
The statistics come from intake forms. So, yes, it is fair to use. Yes, some people convert or 'find' religion in prison, but the statistic I used is from the prison intake forms that a convict would fill out when first arriving there, before anyone 'got to them' yet.
Priests and ministers also get more involved in poor and "bad" communities. But whatever.
Your statistic was 85% of peeps are religious. 80-100% of peeps in jail are religious. Am I missing something here cuz these results don't show it either way?
I don't know what you don't understand about that. 85 % of Americans claim a religion, so that means 15% don't claim one. Now, if 80-100% (depending) of people in prison claim a religion, then religious people make up the vast majority of the prison population. The 15% of Americans that are NOT religious are NOT committing most of the crimes, the religious ones are.
The arguement here is, are religious people 'better citizens' or not. If religious people were better citizens, they wouldn't make up the vast majority of the prison population. The 15% of non-religious people could make up 100% of the prison population (and then some, there's something like 2 million inmates) if it were true that non-religious people were more apt to commit crimes. The fact that the statistics show that most inmates are religious is telling. If religious people were 'better citizens', the statistics would show that there would be a much higher proportion of non-religious people incarcerated.
Haha. Yes, I see your logic but you are misinterpreting the statistics.
Let me make it easy for you. Imagine we have a population of 1000. 85% are religious, which is 850 people, and 15% are not, which is 150 people. Lets say, of this population 10% go to jail, which is 100 people. Of that 100 people 80% are religious, 80 people, and 20% are not religious, 20 people. Thus the odds of a religious person committing a crime is the number of religious criminals divided by the total number of religious people, 80/850=0.094. Similarly for non-religious people its 20/150=0.133. As you can see 0.133>0.094 showing that the average non-religious person are far more likely to commit a crime.
Of course is I used the other end of the range you suggested for religious inmates, 100%, then it would be the average religious person that were more likely to commit a crime.
Your statistics are not accurate enough to make any significant claim.
Religious People Make Better Citizens - or not
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Obvious? Yes and no. One could think that the 15% that don't claim a religion are the ones in prison, but that's not the way it is. It's the religious folks that are in prison. I pointed that out because it's one of the only solid statistical facts to support the theory that religious people aren't 'better ctizens'.
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taciturn
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UnrecognizableMan
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Exactly, but it was worded such that it seemed to try to imply a connection between "criminal and religious sociology", when really, it's an incredibly obvious statistic. I'm sure 80% of people who buy orange juice are religious too. There is no categorical connection between the two. That's my only point.
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It's not exactly obvious though. If religious people were better citizens, then they would make up a lower percent of prison population.
It's all about proportions.
Men make up roughly 50% of the population, but about 92% of the prison population. Are you saying you can't draw conclusions from that? I don't see how you can't connect the whole proportional thing. If religious people were 'better' then they'd have a disproportionately lower number of inmates as compared to the general population.
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You clearly didn't read what I wrote - I'm arguing against the idea that religion has any effect on being a better person. We're agreeing. Please go back and read my comment.
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I got it, thanks...and we don't agree 100%. Sorry.
Don't a lot of priests and ministers go around prisons? And once you've been sentenced to jail you might be looking for some forgiveness! I don't think the number of religious peoples in prisons vs non-religious is a fair statistic to use.
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The statistics come from intake forms. So, yes, it is fair to use. Yes, some people convert or 'find' religion in prison, but the statistic I used is from the prison intake forms that a convict would fill out when first arriving there, before anyone 'got to them' yet.
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Priests and ministers also get more involved in poor and "bad" communities. But whatever.
Your statistic was 85% of peeps are religious. 80-100% of peeps in jail are religious. Am I missing something here cuz these results don't show it either way?
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wigsplitz
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Is it not cool to say peeps anymore?
I don't know what you don't understand about that. 85 % of Americans claim a religion, so that means 15% don't claim one. Now, if 80-100% (depending) of people in prison claim a religion, then religious people make up the vast majority of the prison population. The 15% of Americans that are NOT religious are NOT committing most of the crimes, the religious ones are.
The arguement here is, are religious people 'better citizens' or not. If religious people were better citizens, they wouldn't make up the vast majority of the prison population. The 15% of non-religious people could make up 100% of the prison population (and then some, there's something like 2 million inmates) if it were true that non-religious people were more apt to commit crimes. The fact that the statistics show that most inmates are religious is telling. If religious people were 'better citizens', the statistics would show that there would be a much higher proportion of non-religious people incarcerated.
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Haha. Yes, I see your logic but you are misinterpreting the statistics.
Let me make it easy for you. Imagine we have a population of 1000. 85% are religious, which is 850 people, and 15% are not, which is 150 people. Lets say, of this population 10% go to jail, which is 100 people. Of that 100 people 80% are religious, 80 people, and 20% are not religious, 20 people. Thus the odds of a religious person committing a crime is the number of religious criminals divided by the total number of religious people, 80/850=0.094. Similarly for non-religious people its 20/150=0.133. As you can see 0.133>0.094 showing that the average non-religious person are far more likely to commit a crime.
Of course is I used the other end of the range you suggested for religious inmates, 100%, then it would be the average religious person that were more likely to commit a crime.
Your statistics are not accurate enough to make any significant claim.