Religion is frustrating

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  • I think you really dont get judged by god. He gave us free will, made whores a thing, and made some of us suck at math. What the heck did you expect some of us to do?

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    • Freewill is a thang, because God wants people to freely choose to do the right thing!

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      • A lot of scientists claim we don't have free will.

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        • I'm not familiar with that assertion. In what way do they say we don't have freewill?

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          • Just search on YouTube. There are lots of videos there debunking the concept. Here are a few (although not by scientists, but pretty bright guys nonetheless).

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwaXqep-bpk&t=14s

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Oyi1T-HmU&t=5s

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            • Yeah, I don't really see the need to research something I don't necessarily believe in like the idea that we don't have freewill as I'm one to believe that we do in fact have God given freewill.

              I will, however, say that a person with a gun to their head, and or one who has a serious psychiatric, or neurological disorder certainly has less freewill than say a perfectly healthy person who has no psychiatric, or neurological disorders, and does not have someone pointing a gun at their head.

              I don't think this stuff is as absolute one way, or another as some people might claim.

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              • Fine. No-one's forcing you to do any research. I will say, however, that the outright refusal to do so isn't exactly open minded.

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    • Many scientists, etc. say we don't have free will at all.

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      • Do you speak of multiverse thoery? Since if not you have free will. You can do whatever you want. Someone can put a gun to your head and say speak and die and you can still tell them to go to hell. There is always a choice. Even if the deck is stacked. Everything is a choice.

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        • "Do you speak of multiverse thoery? Since if not you have free will."

          How's that?

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          • You said science said we do not have free will. I have not seen this argument anywhere unless you speak of multiverse theory. Which is the idea that for every action there is a polar and opposite reaction and outcome which is possible. Which would mean there is tons of universes which are believed to differ by a single outcome. However, the creator of the theory I believe at one point came out saying this was misunderstood such as many misunderstand evolution. That the theory means there is a number of different outcomes that can branch off into sort of like the show, "Future Diary". If one believes there is a universe where they differ by one outcome that means that every other universe has to have a different outcome and so the action was not a choice but really a default. The fact you do not know this theory proves that you are speaking out of thin air. If you know a legitimate scientist or theory stating "No free will" please state it. If not you are a liar.

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            • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t_Uyi9bNS4&t=2s

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      • I don't buy that one. Much ado about nothing.

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        • Suit yourself. It's pretty smart people claiming it, though.

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          • You believe everything they say?

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            • Of course not, but the people who claim this aren't exactly morons. Also, it isn't just a few people claiming this.

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      • I disagree with that. I know a great many scientist, and not a one of them think that people don't have free will.

        What is the source of the "theory" that people don't have free will. Please cite it.

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        • Just search on YouTube. There are lots of videos there debunking the concept. Here are a few (although not by scientists, but pretty bright guys nonetheless).

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwaXqep-bpk&t=14s

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4Oyi1T-HmU&t=5s

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          • So, the person from the first video is effectively playing a game of "find the original cause". He's suggesting that, since an effect has to have a cause, and a choice is both effect and cause, the choice must have a cause. However, the cause must have a cause as well. So, using that logic, you can go in an unending chain of causes and effects until you reach the first cause.

            This person is arguing that, since there is cause for your actions that you did not originally create, your actions are not your choice, but are rather predestined by the previous causes and effects that have acted upon you. It's honestly a pretty fancy way of saying "predestination".

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            • Right now I'm watchin Big Poppa Peterson. 😎

              https://youtu.be/vpqoQ-zGxBM

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            • Precisely! It left a bad, sort of Calvinist taste in my mouth... meh. 🤢🤮

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              • Hehe... that's the school I grew up out of (so to speak, since I was raised atheist). I still respect them for their commitment to the Word.

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          • I think you have no idea how to judge intelligence.

            The 1st video has arguments discussed in any college introductory class of philosophy.

            The 2nd video... presents part of what is known about brain processes, and then claims that part shows there is no "free will".

            Here's the rest of the story: No serious scientist that I am aware of claims that free will is based in your consciousness. But in your brain and some add soul as well. Present your brain (& possibly soul) with a problem, and it can chose a solution. It then tells your consciousness what that solution is.

            Likewise; a computer determines the answer before sending it to the out put device (computer screen, printer, etc.).

            By not telling the full story... they can present a false conclusion; which is not in my opinion very intelligent at all.

            Overall; both videos are in my opinion at the level of an incoming college Freshman. Anyone who has taken College Level "Introduction to Philosophy" should be able to present counter arguments and equally, and perhaps more, valid theories.

            I suggest you get a copy of the textbook used for college level introduction to philosophy if you are really interested in moving ahead with these kinds of issues.

            Also note, both videos only present theories; and there are alternate theories. Nether video came anywhere close to debunking the concept of Free Will (even if someone says they do).

            Please develop yourself and keep pursuing questions. It would also serve you better in the future to present things as "Theories" versus facts when having philosophical discussions.

            Have a great day,

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