I agree morality does exist. However, I'm not entirely sure that it isn't fixed. Certain moral values may indeed be fluid alright, but aren't certain things INHERENTLY right or wrong?
I mean, can you tell me when or where it was ever OK to, say, brutally torture a baby to death for fun? I don't think such a timeframe/culture ever existed and even if it did, I still think they were blatantly in the wrong.
The Spartans kllled weak, sick or deformed babies at birth, maybe not exactly for fun but they believed it was the right thing to do. They were also pederasts which again is something that is seen as inherently wrong in todays modern society.
What you say is true, the Spartans did indeed do those things (although indeed still not for fun). However, I still think they were BLATANTLY in the wrong. Killing babies simply IS wrong. The culture or timeframe is simply irrelevant.
Yeah but you are holding their actions against morals which we have in todays modern world, if you were brought up in their culture then you would probably think differently.
Yeah, I would probably think differently if I was brought up in their culture. That wouldn't make it ANY less wrong though. I simply refuse with every fiber of my being to believe that something such as killing babies was EVER alright.
Besides, we have developed a lot as a species, since the days of the Spartans, and I think our present-day morals are VASTLY superior to theirs.
Babies and children are still regularly slaughtered to this day.
War, desperation, slavery...it's alive and well.
In war, *intentional* (and unnecessary) crimes against babies and children are committed constantly, this has been true since the first wars ever and continues currently. One prominent modern example would be Hitler, but that's one you'd expect. Look into war crimes against children involving any other country and you'll be similarly shocked.
Desperation....well, look at modern Africa. Look at any desperate people ANYWHERE. People in the US sell their children, murder them or let them fall victim to severe abuse and neglect, many times for selfish reasons (addiction, money, to keep a partner). People in less fortunate places than the US do this even MORE, and there's far more of those places in this world!
Some equate abortion with killing babies. It's intentional, it's (overwhelmingly) unnecessary medically. Many countries think we're barbaric for allowing this.
If people always have, and continue to, slaughter, abuse and enslave children then obviously it's not universally wrong and it's also obvious that even people who "never" would harm a child suddenly CAN and DO hurt children (soldiers, desperate parents, etc).
It's an interesting question. I know there are times that babies have been killed (even by the church) but I don't think for fun. I'd like to believe that even in the amorality there was doubt (and that doubt was morality itself). I strongly believe that morality comes from intuitivism (as does the church - "do unto others as you would be done to") and I think there's a natural logic to it (that you even see in primate societies) but I know what you meant about it not existing and I was being a bit pedantic. Obviously people do have morals but morality itself isn't really a tangible thing.
Morality doesn't exist in reality.
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Morality does exist; it just isn't fixed. Think of it like fashion.
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BLAh81
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I agree morality does exist. However, I'm not entirely sure that it isn't fixed. Certain moral values may indeed be fluid alright, but aren't certain things INHERENTLY right or wrong?
I mean, can you tell me when or where it was ever OK to, say, brutally torture a baby to death for fun? I don't think such a timeframe/culture ever existed and even if it did, I still think they were blatantly in the wrong.
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Darkoil
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dappled
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The Spartans kllled weak, sick or deformed babies at birth, maybe not exactly for fun but they believed it was the right thing to do. They were also pederasts which again is something that is seen as inherently wrong in todays modern society.
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BLAh81
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What you say is true, the Spartans did indeed do those things (although indeed still not for fun). However, I still think they were BLATANTLY in the wrong. Killing babies simply IS wrong. The culture or timeframe is simply irrelevant.
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Yeah but you are holding their actions against morals which we have in todays modern world, if you were brought up in their culture then you would probably think differently.
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BLAh81
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Yeah, I would probably think differently if I was brought up in their culture. That wouldn't make it ANY less wrong though. I simply refuse with every fiber of my being to believe that something such as killing babies was EVER alright.
Besides, we have developed a lot as a species, since the days of the Spartans, and I think our present-day morals are VASTLY superior to theirs.
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wigsplitz
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Babies and children are still regularly slaughtered to this day.
War, desperation, slavery...it's alive and well.
In war, *intentional* (and unnecessary) crimes against babies and children are committed constantly, this has been true since the first wars ever and continues currently. One prominent modern example would be Hitler, but that's one you'd expect. Look into war crimes against children involving any other country and you'll be similarly shocked.
Desperation....well, look at modern Africa. Look at any desperate people ANYWHERE. People in the US sell their children, murder them or let them fall victim to severe abuse and neglect, many times for selfish reasons (addiction, money, to keep a partner). People in less fortunate places than the US do this even MORE, and there's far more of those places in this world!
Some equate abortion with killing babies. It's intentional, it's (overwhelmingly) unnecessary medically. Many countries think we're barbaric for allowing this.
If people always have, and continue to, slaughter, abuse and enslave children then obviously it's not universally wrong and it's also obvious that even people who "never" would harm a child suddenly CAN and DO hurt children (soldiers, desperate parents, etc).
It's an interesting question. I know there are times that babies have been killed (even by the church) but I don't think for fun. I'd like to believe that even in the amorality there was doubt (and that doubt was morality itself). I strongly believe that morality comes from intuitivism (as does the church - "do unto others as you would be done to") and I think there's a natural logic to it (that you even see in primate societies) but I know what you meant about it not existing and I was being a bit pedantic. Obviously people do have morals but morality itself isn't really a tangible thing.