Bullshit, not many art galleries, libraries, classical music concerts near you then? Men have dominated the arts, not coz they're better but because women weren't allowed access to education in days gone by.
Im not sure why you called bullshit? You didn't contradict what I said. But what you speak of isnt about the art, its the politics of the system. Which is kind of masculine regardless of how many males it effected.
Whoa! Art is feminine? Wholly disagree there. Architecture, graphic design, film, photography, fashion, tattoo, cooking? Those are just ones I know have heavy manly-male presence...not sure how drawing and painting stack up but I've known many male artists in those departments in my limited experience.
Why don't you look up the difference between masculine and feminine as compared to male and female and get back to me.
Feminine traits are more creative, by nature. Masculine traits are more organized and have structure to them. It has little to do with the gender of the person expressing those traits.
Clearly I am not explaining myself. Feminine is not a synonymous with female. Masculine isn't male. Am I the only one who was taught this?
I am not talking about stereotypes. Sure, many are the same, but that's not what I am describing. I am talking about yin and yang, art and science, black and white. It is one of lifes great dualities. Being creative is feminine. Right brained.
Language is feminine, written word is masculine. These things go together so well. Funny how that is.
More stereotypes and more and more ...... what's the point of them? They're restrictive and limiting for BOTH genders (or all genders if you prefer) and there are so many exceptions they're meaningless.
If there's ever a society where there aren't different expectations for male and female from the time of birth of before, and these differences still exist, then I'll believe they're innate, but not before.
She isn't arguing that they are innate. She is simply saying that "artisticness" is a trait which is coded as feminine in our society. Without putting words in her mouth, I'm pretty sure she'd agree with you that it's socially constructed rather than natural.
Thanks, I thought for a second I wasn't being clear. And I did use the phrase "cultural projections" which I totally stole, but I feel it is a better way of saying stereotype. Stereotypes is such a negative word and diesnt often include positive attributes. But they are not always wrong and are often rooted in truth.
And again, I am not talking about gender at all. I am talking about balance.
What was the gender of the person/s who decided to label the hemispheres of the brain masculine and feminine? Yin and yang is a spiritual concept and therefore I find it meaningless when applied to human beings
Sorry, I didn't express that well. What I meant was that yin & yang is a spiritual concept which I don't find relevant to this discussion. Spiritual concepts are invented by human beings to satisfy particular needs, which has nothing to do with whether certain attributes are innate to either gender.
Men vs Women Art Talents
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Art is a feminine trait, however it doesn't make women more artistic. Art is subjective. And art is personal. So I do not feel this is a gender issue.
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slings_and_arrows
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Ellenna
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Bullshit, not many art galleries, libraries, classical music concerts near you then? Men have dominated the arts, not coz they're better but because women weren't allowed access to education in days gone by.
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howaminotmyself
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Im not sure why you called bullshit? You didn't contradict what I said. But what you speak of isnt about the art, its the politics of the system. Which is kind of masculine regardless of how many males it effected.
Whoa! Art is feminine? Wholly disagree there. Architecture, graphic design, film, photography, fashion, tattoo, cooking? Those are just ones I know have heavy manly-male presence...not sure how drawing and painting stack up but I've known many male artists in those departments in my limited experience.
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Why don't you look up the difference between masculine and feminine as compared to male and female and get back to me.
Feminine traits are more creative, by nature. Masculine traits are more organized and have structure to them. It has little to do with the gender of the person expressing those traits.
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Ellenna
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The real difference is that male and female describe gender, masculine and feminine describe constructed stereotypes
Oh yeah...music too, duh!
I think with art it's either you have an eye or ear for it or you don't. It seems like the talent is evenly occuring in both genders.
That's a bit contradictory: it's not a gender issue but it's feminine?
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howaminotmyself
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Clearly I am not explaining myself. Feminine is not a synonymous with female. Masculine isn't male. Am I the only one who was taught this?
I am not talking about stereotypes. Sure, many are the same, but that's not what I am describing. I am talking about yin and yang, art and science, black and white. It is one of lifes great dualities. Being creative is feminine. Right brained.
Language is feminine, written word is masculine. These things go together so well. Funny how that is.
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Here are some words to help describe what I am refering to.
Words to describe masculine energies, archetypes and cultural projections:
positive attributes: active, intelligent, logical, rational, linear, determined, reliable, strong, stable, protective, sensible, heroic, focused, single-minded, practical, goal-oriented, consistent, predictable, capable, smart, rugged, ordered, disciplined.
negative attributes: rigid, stubborn, aggressive, tough, ruthless, violent, non-communicative, self-centered, authoritative, dominating, dogmatic, closed-minded, autocratic, rule-bound, heartless.
Words to describe feminine energies, archetypes and cultural projections:
positive attributes: soft, warm, sweet, kind, loving, nurturing, gentle, creative, receptive, flexible, adaptable, yielding, forgiving, understanding, caring, care-giving, serving, passive, peaceful, open-minded, beautiful, mysterious, spontaneous, ever-changing, inspirational.
negative attributes: weak, emotional, irrational, illogical, unpredictable, bitchy, stupid, powerless, manipulative, controlling, indecisive, fickle.
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More stereotypes and more and more ...... what's the point of them? They're restrictive and limiting for BOTH genders (or all genders if you prefer) and there are so many exceptions they're meaningless.
If there's ever a society where there aren't different expectations for male and female from the time of birth of before, and these differences still exist, then I'll believe they're innate, but not before.
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She isn't arguing that they are innate. She is simply saying that "artisticness" is a trait which is coded as feminine in our society. Without putting words in her mouth, I'm pretty sure she'd agree with you that it's socially constructed rather than natural.
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I concur. Off the record, males artistically inclined are even labeled off as homosexuels.
Thanks, I thought for a second I wasn't being clear. And I did use the phrase "cultural projections" which I totally stole, but I feel it is a better way of saying stereotype. Stereotypes is such a negative word and diesnt often include positive attributes. But they are not always wrong and are often rooted in truth.
And again, I am not talking about gender at all. I am talking about balance.
What was the gender of the person/s who decided to label the hemispheres of the brain masculine and feminine? Yin and yang is a spiritual concept and therefore I find it meaningless when applied to human beings
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You find spirituality meaningless? How sad.
You completely missed the point.
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Sorry, I didn't express that well. What I meant was that yin & yang is a spiritual concept which I don't find relevant to this discussion. Spiritual concepts are invented by human beings to satisfy particular needs, which has nothing to do with whether certain attributes are innate to either gender.