The example you gave is a good one. Where one gender's rights are ignored in favour of the other. Sadly, we live in a world where that happens. Men have no rights over the unborn babies they father.
This cuts either way. If they want the child, they have no right to stop the mother terminating. If they don't want the child, they have no right to stop the mother keeping a baby they'll have to pay a serious amount of money for over 18 years.
Is it right that one gender can decide to end the life of the other's child, or to make a decision that will radically change the other's life financially? No. It goes against all the principles of equality.
However, if you look back at my post, what I was most keen on is that men have *some* rights. Not 100% of the choice. Not even 50% (because they don't carry the child), but something which protects their interests, even while leaving the final judgement down to the mother.
For instance, maybe it should be illegal to terminate a baby without making a reasonable effort to notify the father of that child. Perhaps if the two parents don't agree, there should be a cooling-off period with conciliation services. But there is nothing at all on the statute books.
This is what bothers me most about this. That, on this issue, one gender is in the very precarious position of having no rights whatsoever. It leaves them open to leverage.
I know it's an emotive issue and the idea of equality for men is fairly laughable, but I believe in equality and I believe it should apply regardless of gender. Isn't that exactly what it means?
That's what bugs me about this. I mean, if I were a man and I wanted to keep the baby and the woman decided not to, it probably would mess me up. And I think men ought to have a say, not as much as women, but yes, that 'cooling off' period where they need to talk.
But still (I guess i have abandonment issues or something) I hold that the woman gets the deciding vote, because a man can walk out and be stuck with a bill, as opposed to everything that actually goes into having a child, or even terminating a pregnancy.
So I'd like it to be fairer, just still tipped in favor of the woman.
I disagree completely on everything you say. I don't think the legality of abortion is something to be decided by men, nor do I think men should have no say in the life of their unborn children.
I wasn't saying that men should be the ONLY deciders on legality, I just meant that they can't have it both ways. They can't expect to have a say, as in making abortion more 'fair'...because there's just no reasonable legal way to do this. So it's either deal with it being legal, and slightly unfair in some cases, or level the playing field completely and make it illegal.
Any kind of law you could possibly propose that would either try to convince a woman to have an abortion or to not have one would either be completely ineffective and easily circumvented, or be coercive in nature and be just plain wrong for that reason alone. Do you really see our legal system allowing or promoting a 'do it or else' type of situation? Especially with abortion?
Men and Abortions
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The example you gave is a good one. Where one gender's rights are ignored in favour of the other. Sadly, we live in a world where that happens. Men have no rights over the unborn babies they father.
This cuts either way. If they want the child, they have no right to stop the mother terminating. If they don't want the child, they have no right to stop the mother keeping a baby they'll have to pay a serious amount of money for over 18 years.
Is it right that one gender can decide to end the life of the other's child, or to make a decision that will radically change the other's life financially? No. It goes against all the principles of equality.
However, if you look back at my post, what I was most keen on is that men have *some* rights. Not 100% of the choice. Not even 50% (because they don't carry the child), but something which protects their interests, even while leaving the final judgement down to the mother.
For instance, maybe it should be illegal to terminate a baby without making a reasonable effort to notify the father of that child. Perhaps if the two parents don't agree, there should be a cooling-off period with conciliation services. But there is nothing at all on the statute books.
This is what bothers me most about this. That, on this issue, one gender is in the very precarious position of having no rights whatsoever. It leaves them open to leverage.
I know it's an emotive issue and the idea of equality for men is fairly laughable, but I believe in equality and I believe it should apply regardless of gender. Isn't that exactly what it means?
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Its_Called_Love
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dejaentendu!
11 years ago
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wigsplitz
11 years ago
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I agree, the father should have at least a heads up and a chance to change her mind.
That's what bugs me about this. I mean, if I were a man and I wanted to keep the baby and the woman decided not to, it probably would mess me up. And I think men ought to have a say, not as much as women, but yes, that 'cooling off' period where they need to talk.
But still (I guess i have abandonment issues or something) I hold that the woman gets the deciding vote, because a man can walk out and be stuck with a bill, as opposed to everything that actually goes into having a child, or even terminating a pregnancy.
So I'd like it to be fairer, just still tipped in favor of the woman.
Men have to decide....do they want NO abortion or allow abortion and have no say in the matter. There's no way to have both.
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Frosties
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I disagree completely on everything you say. I don't think the legality of abortion is something to be decided by men, nor do I think men should have no say in the life of their unborn children.
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wigsplitz
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I wasn't saying that men should be the ONLY deciders on legality, I just meant that they can't have it both ways. They can't expect to have a say, as in making abortion more 'fair'...because there's just no reasonable legal way to do this. So it's either deal with it being legal, and slightly unfair in some cases, or level the playing field completely and make it illegal.
Any kind of law you could possibly propose that would either try to convince a woman to have an abortion or to not have one would either be completely ineffective and easily circumvented, or be coercive in nature and be just plain wrong for that reason alone. Do you really see our legal system allowing or promoting a 'do it or else' type of situation? Especially with abortion?