It's difficult. I think men should have some choice about whether their unborn child is terminated. A man can't force a woman to terminate her baby, yet she has the power to terminate his without even notifying him.
I know it's different because she's the one carrying it, but that's only a temporary thing. After birth, they should both be equal parents. I feel that society doesn't put much stock in fatherhood and there's an increasing "They're only men. They don't matter" attitude.
After birth, of course both parents are equal. But you can't exactly get a post birth abortion can you? (Well you can but then it's murder).
Men should have the right to give his partner his opinion, and even plead with her if he really wants to, but in the end, who's the most effected? Her.
Let's say we have a couple, Jill and Olly.
Jill gets pregnant, and after a long period of deciding, and despite Olly wanting to keep the child, she wants a termination.
However, in this hypothetical situation, Olly is legally allowed to tell the people who work at the abortion clinic that he doesn't want Jill to get an abortion. Jill is turned away.
The example you gave is a good one. Where one gender's rights are ignored in favour of the other. Sadly, we live in a world where that happens. Men have no rights over the unborn babies they father.
This cuts either way. If they want the child, they have no right to stop the mother terminating. If they don't want the child, they have no right to stop the mother keeping a baby they'll have to pay a serious amount of money for over 18 years.
Is it right that one gender can decide to end the life of the other's child, or to make a decision that will radically change the other's life financially? No. It goes against all the principles of equality.
However, if you look back at my post, what I was most keen on is that men have *some* rights. Not 100% of the choice. Not even 50% (because they don't carry the child), but something which protects their interests, even while leaving the final judgement down to the mother.
For instance, maybe it should be illegal to terminate a baby without making a reasonable effort to notify the father of that child. Perhaps if the two parents don't agree, there should be a cooling-off period with conciliation services. But there is nothing at all on the statute books.
This is what bothers me most about this. That, on this issue, one gender is in the very precarious position of having no rights whatsoever. It leaves them open to leverage.
I know it's an emotive issue and the idea of equality for men is fairly laughable, but I believe in equality and I believe it should apply regardless of gender. Isn't that exactly what it means?
That's what bugs me about this. I mean, if I were a man and I wanted to keep the baby and the woman decided not to, it probably would mess me up. And I think men ought to have a say, not as much as women, but yes, that 'cooling off' period where they need to talk.
But still (I guess i have abandonment issues or something) I hold that the woman gets the deciding vote, because a man can walk out and be stuck with a bill, as opposed to everything that actually goes into having a child, or even terminating a pregnancy.
So I'd like it to be fairer, just still tipped in favor of the woman.
I disagree completely on everything you say. I don't think the legality of abortion is something to be decided by men, nor do I think men should have no say in the life of their unborn children.
I wasn't saying that men should be the ONLY deciders on legality, I just meant that they can't have it both ways. They can't expect to have a say, as in making abortion more 'fair'...because there's just no reasonable legal way to do this. So it's either deal with it being legal, and slightly unfair in some cases, or level the playing field completely and make it illegal.
Any kind of law you could possibly propose that would either try to convince a woman to have an abortion or to not have one would either be completely ineffective and easily circumvented, or be coercive in nature and be just plain wrong for that reason alone. Do you really see our legal system allowing or promoting a 'do it or else' type of situation? Especially with abortion?
Men and Abortions
← View full post
It's difficult. I think men should have some choice about whether their unborn child is terminated. A man can't force a woman to terminate her baby, yet she has the power to terminate his without even notifying him.
I know it's different because she's the one carrying it, but that's only a temporary thing. After birth, they should both be equal parents. I feel that society doesn't put much stock in fatherhood and there's an increasing "They're only men. They don't matter" attitude.
--
Nyet
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
1
1
After birth, of course both parents are equal. But you can't exactly get a post birth abortion can you? (Well you can but then it's murder).
Men should have the right to give his partner his opinion, and even plead with her if he really wants to, but in the end, who's the most effected? Her.
Let's say we have a couple, Jill and Olly.
Jill gets pregnant, and after a long period of deciding, and despite Olly wanting to keep the child, she wants a termination.
However, in this hypothetical situation, Olly is legally allowed to tell the people who work at the abortion clinic that he doesn't want Jill to get an abortion. Jill is turned away.
Wouldn't that be ignoring Jill's human rights?
--
Frosties
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
1
1
The example you gave is a good one. Where one gender's rights are ignored in favour of the other. Sadly, we live in a world where that happens. Men have no rights over the unborn babies they father.
This cuts either way. If they want the child, they have no right to stop the mother terminating. If they don't want the child, they have no right to stop the mother keeping a baby they'll have to pay a serious amount of money for over 18 years.
Is it right that one gender can decide to end the life of the other's child, or to make a decision that will radically change the other's life financially? No. It goes against all the principles of equality.
However, if you look back at my post, what I was most keen on is that men have *some* rights. Not 100% of the choice. Not even 50% (because they don't carry the child), but something which protects their interests, even while leaving the final judgement down to the mother.
For instance, maybe it should be illegal to terminate a baby without making a reasonable effort to notify the father of that child. Perhaps if the two parents don't agree, there should be a cooling-off period with conciliation services. But there is nothing at all on the statute books.
This is what bothers me most about this. That, on this issue, one gender is in the very precarious position of having no rights whatsoever. It leaves them open to leverage.
I know it's an emotive issue and the idea of equality for men is fairly laughable, but I believe in equality and I believe it should apply regardless of gender. Isn't that exactly what it means?
--
Its_Called_Love
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
dejaentendu!
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
wigsplitz
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
I agree, the father should have at least a heads up and a chance to change her mind.
That's what bugs me about this. I mean, if I were a man and I wanted to keep the baby and the woman decided not to, it probably would mess me up. And I think men ought to have a say, not as much as women, but yes, that 'cooling off' period where they need to talk.
But still (I guess i have abandonment issues or something) I hold that the woman gets the deciding vote, because a man can walk out and be stuck with a bill, as opposed to everything that actually goes into having a child, or even terminating a pregnancy.
So I'd like it to be fairer, just still tipped in favor of the woman.
Men have to decide....do they want NO abortion or allow abortion and have no say in the matter. There's no way to have both.
--
Frosties
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
I disagree completely on everything you say. I don't think the legality of abortion is something to be decided by men, nor do I think men should have no say in the life of their unborn children.
--
wigsplitz
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
I wasn't saying that men should be the ONLY deciders on legality, I just meant that they can't have it both ways. They can't expect to have a say, as in making abortion more 'fair'...because there's just no reasonable legal way to do this. So it's either deal with it being legal, and slightly unfair in some cases, or level the playing field completely and make it illegal.
Any kind of law you could possibly propose that would either try to convince a woman to have an abortion or to not have one would either be completely ineffective and easily circumvented, or be coercive in nature and be just plain wrong for that reason alone. Do you really see our legal system allowing or promoting a 'do it or else' type of situation? Especially with abortion?