OK, sad may not apply in all cases, I agree. But the whole scenario largely attracts certain types of people and just saying 'meh, it's consenting adults, whatever' is pretty shallow.
Like, make an analogy to prostitution (no, I am not comparing, just making an analogy)...
Prostitution between two consenting adults, who cares, right? On the surface, it's ok. But we know only a minority of prostitutes are genuinely happy, safe, and not abused, not a victim of human trafficking, etc. So can you really say they are just 'consenting adults' in general when talking about prostitutes? I mean, yeah superficially they are if they are over 18 but there is often overwhelming circumstances that push people into prostitution and while you (and I) can agree that prostitution should be a 'choice' an individual can make, you also need to admit that it's rife with danger, coercion, desperation, abuse, slavery, human trafficking and other problems.
I think you should make a new topic about prostitution becos I don't want to hijack this 1. But my short answer is many ppl involved with sex work are in fact happy with there choice and most of the danger comes from it being illegal becos the police aren't sympathetic to a "criminal". Legalization would give ppl that need help with an abuse or assaults a avenue to get help.
The point wasn't to discuss prostitution, it was just an analogy to illustrate that 'consenting adults' does not exactly mean 'fully consenting adults'. It's not black and white and we're talking about scenarios where we have a lot of desperation and abuse.
For the record though, if you think legalization will help the ones who are most in need, you're insane. Try decriminalization instead. Legalization does nothing for drug users, prior felons, the old, the disabled, the diseased....none of those people would be able to find legal prostitution work under a regulated system. You think they're just going to quit because they can't work legally? Ha! Legalization and regulation only potentially helps a small subset of prostitutes...the ones who are probably doing ok on their own right now already. It does nothing for street prostitutes, drug addicts, the old/not pretty and the like.
Sure it would. If you want to discuss further start the topic. I'm done with the "mail order bride" thing. These are typically women that want a better life. If you look into it you'll see that the women doing it have a choice after meeting the guy to go thru with it or not. It doesn't work like selecting a girl from a catalog and they ship her to you and she has no say in it. Guys go to the country usually after a good deal of correspondence and meet her. If it works out she goes with him if not he goes home empty handed. This is another 1 of thosr subjects where ppl don't really know how it works and condemn the practice based on faulty information.
women who want a better life...in other words, desperate? I get it, I am not ignorant and I do not think the practise should be illegal, I'm simply saying it IS a scenario that is often sad or abusive. You typically have one person desperate for a better life and another person who is ok with essentially buying a human being. They may both be adults and making a strategic decision but come on...it largely attracts desperate people and abusive ones too. . Even the nicest guy is still a scumbag if he's buying a human being for a companion. How many mail order situations do you think were legitimately only looking for love?
I've personally known 2 such deals and one was a straight up cash transaction (lucky he wasn't abusive because he sure could've been) $10,000 to marry her and act as a couple until citizenship. The other one was a much less fortunate Mexican woman who got off the plane and had to choose deportation or going with a disgusting, hideous, poor alcoholic of a man. She laughed about meeting him at the airport (this was mid-90's before internet) and she saw him coming and she said she knew it was him but prayed it wasn't. She 'chose' to stay but she was under great pressure. She was the nicest lady ever, smart and everything but she was so desperate for herself and her family she stuck it out with this pig of a man who didn't even have running water in his home. She was ambushed like a lot of women are to this day even with the internet (no/limited English, no idea what the law is, no idea of cultural norms, held hostage by threats, impregnated and children used as threats,etc) but she ended up well, divorcing him as soon as she could and making a good living as a bilingual bank teller. I also knew several Korean brides while I worked in a military town. Not exactly mail order but still...welp, let's say they were pretty businesslike and reality was their husbands picked up a young exotic girl and no love...there's only thousands of foreign brides each year in the US but hundreds of stories of outright deception, abuse and murder and those are just the ones we hear about. I'd hesitate to say it's overall a safe, happy arrangement.
Maybe you missed the pary where I said I was done discussing this. There was internet in the mid 90s and what does that have to do with today? There use to be slavery in the USA but its not the same issue now. Anyway I could see last time that you have you mind made up so its pointless to continue. Have the last word if you want to I won't read or respond to it.
Mail Order Brides
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Is it? Why? Maybe there happy I don't know these ppl so how could I know its sad? Your generalizing about alot of ppl.
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wigz
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OK, sad may not apply in all cases, I agree. But the whole scenario largely attracts certain types of people and just saying 'meh, it's consenting adults, whatever' is pretty shallow.
Like, make an analogy to prostitution (no, I am not comparing, just making an analogy)...
Prostitution between two consenting adults, who cares, right? On the surface, it's ok. But we know only a minority of prostitutes are genuinely happy, safe, and not abused, not a victim of human trafficking, etc. So can you really say they are just 'consenting adults' in general when talking about prostitutes? I mean, yeah superficially they are if they are over 18 but there is often overwhelming circumstances that push people into prostitution and while you (and I) can agree that prostitution should be a 'choice' an individual can make, you also need to admit that it's rife with danger, coercion, desperation, abuse, slavery, human trafficking and other problems.
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mysistersshadow
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I think you should make a new topic about prostitution becos I don't want to hijack this 1. But my short answer is many ppl involved with sex work are in fact happy with there choice and most of the danger comes from it being illegal becos the police aren't sympathetic to a "criminal". Legalization would give ppl that need help with an abuse or assaults a avenue to get help.
--
wigz
7 years ago
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The point wasn't to discuss prostitution, it was just an analogy to illustrate that 'consenting adults' does not exactly mean 'fully consenting adults'. It's not black and white and we're talking about scenarios where we have a lot of desperation and abuse.
For the record though, if you think legalization will help the ones who are most in need, you're insane. Try decriminalization instead. Legalization does nothing for drug users, prior felons, the old, the disabled, the diseased....none of those people would be able to find legal prostitution work under a regulated system. You think they're just going to quit because they can't work legally? Ha! Legalization and regulation only potentially helps a small subset of prostitutes...the ones who are probably doing ok on their own right now already. It does nothing for street prostitutes, drug addicts, the old/not pretty and the like.
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mysistersshadow
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Sure it would. If you want to discuss further start the topic. I'm done with the "mail order bride" thing. These are typically women that want a better life. If you look into it you'll see that the women doing it have a choice after meeting the guy to go thru with it or not. It doesn't work like selecting a girl from a catalog and they ship her to you and she has no say in it. Guys go to the country usually after a good deal of correspondence and meet her. If it works out she goes with him if not he goes home empty handed. This is another 1 of thosr subjects where ppl don't really know how it works and condemn the practice based on faulty information.
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wigz
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women who want a better life...in other words, desperate? I get it, I am not ignorant and I do not think the practise should be illegal, I'm simply saying it IS a scenario that is often sad or abusive. You typically have one person desperate for a better life and another person who is ok with essentially buying a human being. They may both be adults and making a strategic decision but come on...it largely attracts desperate people and abusive ones too. . Even the nicest guy is still a scumbag if he's buying a human being for a companion. How many mail order situations do you think were legitimately only looking for love?
I've personally known 2 such deals and one was a straight up cash transaction (lucky he wasn't abusive because he sure could've been) $10,000 to marry her and act as a couple until citizenship. The other one was a much less fortunate Mexican woman who got off the plane and had to choose deportation or going with a disgusting, hideous, poor alcoholic of a man. She laughed about meeting him at the airport (this was mid-90's before internet) and she saw him coming and she said she knew it was him but prayed it wasn't. She 'chose' to stay but she was under great pressure. She was the nicest lady ever, smart and everything but she was so desperate for herself and her family she stuck it out with this pig of a man who didn't even have running water in his home. She was ambushed like a lot of women are to this day even with the internet (no/limited English, no idea what the law is, no idea of cultural norms, held hostage by threats, impregnated and children used as threats,etc) but she ended up well, divorcing him as soon as she could and making a good living as a bilingual bank teller. I also knew several Korean brides while I worked in a military town. Not exactly mail order but still...welp, let's say they were pretty businesslike and reality was their husbands picked up a young exotic girl and no love...there's only thousands of foreign brides each year in the US but hundreds of stories of outright deception, abuse and murder and those are just the ones we hear about. I'd hesitate to say it's overall a safe, happy arrangement.
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Ok.
Maybe you missed the pary where I said I was done discussing this. There was internet in the mid 90s and what does that have to do with today? There use to be slavery in the USA but its not the same issue now. Anyway I could see last time that you have you mind made up so its pointless to continue. Have the last word if you want to I won't read or respond to it.