Yes, Fatty. I am glad you are back as many of your well reasoned comments are the highlight of my afternoon.
Firstly, Aristotle noted there is a difference between Jones when alive, and Jones when he is dead. If you subtract the sum of all living attributes from the sum of all dead attributes, Aristotle says the difference is Jones soul. Aristotle then says the question begged to be answered is "what is this difference?" because there is a spectrum of answers.
Some say the soul is simply neurological processes. Further along the spectrum is enduring consciousness for a time. Tempest-au seems to be in that camp. As the spectrum continues we get into radical ideas like all physical matter is in some sense spiritual.
Being an Agnostic, my claim is that Aristotle's question cannot be answered. I adhere to the Aetheist's wager, but with accounts of dying patients brought back from death with defibrillators, I think there a good case to be made that it is more than just neurological processes.
If humans have a soul, than every other living thing that has ever existed also has a soul. We aren't special or unique aside from what evolution has allowed us to gain in terms of our highly developed cerebral cortex.
Reviving a "dead" person using modern medicine and science is just a byproduct of our own advancement. Believing anything will be "revealed" at death is humanity trying to understand "life and death".
There is no fully understanding it. No matter how much we progress in science and technology death will always exist and we all have it coming. "Tempest-au" is denial of their own mortality. This is the sort of thinking that religion seizes upon and manipulates into conversion of said person by the promise of "eternal life" or as that same account actually phrased "it can't just be the end".
From a personal standpoint I can't think of any worse punishment than living "forever".
Not true. I'm not even saying that we exist after death for very long in any "individual" capacity - merely as a form of cosmic consciousness. Think of a glass of water. If I throw it into the ocean, it will disperse and become part of that ocean.
Like most rational people, I like to fit my beliefs into what I have observed. I have observed indications that a person's consciousness lives on, even briefly, after death. Unless you can provide a reasonable alternative explanation to my experience above?
Yes, except what can be inferred from your experience?
1. It was probably not a coincidence because it was too unlikely.
2. You were important person in her life, so she wanted to say goodbye.
These things say nothing about a cosmic consciousness. Even if there is such a thing, your experiences would have happened before her consciousness merged into it.
True. However, the fact that I am not alone in experiencing "visitations" from people after they die leads me to the conclusion that there is some form of "Post death" existence. As a rational person, I believe that energy and information can't be destroyed in accordance with the known (or presumed) laws of physics.
Most "Visitations" occur shortly after the death of a person, and tend to diminish in both intensity and "clarity" as time passes. Therefore, there appears to be a "loss of energy/information" occurring. One may therefore conjecture that as this energy/information must go somewhere (so as to adhere to the laws of physics), a non-personalised "super-consciousness" may well be it's ultimate destination.
Of course, there is no more evidence for any of this than for the "invisible man in the sky", so it is every person's right to agree, disagree, or both. ;)
IIN when you die all will be revealed
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Yes, Fatty. I am glad you are back as many of your well reasoned comments are the highlight of my afternoon.
Firstly, Aristotle noted there is a difference between Jones when alive, and Jones when he is dead. If you subtract the sum of all living attributes from the sum of all dead attributes, Aristotle says the difference is Jones soul. Aristotle then says the question begged to be answered is "what is this difference?" because there is a spectrum of answers.
Some say the soul is simply neurological processes. Further along the spectrum is enduring consciousness for a time. Tempest-au seems to be in that camp. As the spectrum continues we get into radical ideas like all physical matter is in some sense spiritual.
Being an Agnostic, my claim is that Aristotle's question cannot be answered. I adhere to the Aetheist's wager, but with accounts of dying patients brought back from death with defibrillators, I think there a good case to be made that it is more than just neurological processes.
Any response is welcome.
--
Fatty_McJiggles
7 years ago
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If humans have a soul, than every other living thing that has ever existed also has a soul. We aren't special or unique aside from what evolution has allowed us to gain in terms of our highly developed cerebral cortex.
Reviving a "dead" person using modern medicine and science is just a byproduct of our own advancement. Believing anything will be "revealed" at death is humanity trying to understand "life and death".
There is no fully understanding it. No matter how much we progress in science and technology death will always exist and we all have it coming. "Tempest-au" is denial of their own mortality. This is the sort of thinking that religion seizes upon and manipulates into conversion of said person by the promise of "eternal life" or as that same account actually phrased "it can't just be the end".
From a personal standpoint I can't think of any worse punishment than living "forever".
--
Tempest-au
7 years ago
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Not true. I'm not even saying that we exist after death for very long in any "individual" capacity - merely as a form of cosmic consciousness. Think of a glass of water. If I throw it into the ocean, it will disperse and become part of that ocean.
Like most rational people, I like to fit my beliefs into what I have observed. I have observed indications that a person's consciousness lives on, even briefly, after death. Unless you can provide a reasonable alternative explanation to my experience above?
--
Kookulainamus
7 years ago
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Yes, except what can be inferred from your experience?
1. It was probably not a coincidence because it was too unlikely.
2. You were important person in her life, so she wanted to say goodbye.
These things say nothing about a cosmic consciousness. Even if there is such a thing, your experiences would have happened before her consciousness merged into it.
--
Tempest-au
7 years ago
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True. However, the fact that I am not alone in experiencing "visitations" from people after they die leads me to the conclusion that there is some form of "Post death" existence. As a rational person, I believe that energy and information can't be destroyed in accordance with the known (or presumed) laws of physics.
Most "Visitations" occur shortly after the death of a person, and tend to diminish in both intensity and "clarity" as time passes. Therefore, there appears to be a "loss of energy/information" occurring. One may therefore conjecture that as this energy/information must go somewhere (so as to adhere to the laws of physics), a non-personalised "super-consciousness" may well be it's ultimate destination.
Of course, there is no more evidence for any of this than for the "invisible man in the sky", so it is every person's right to agree, disagree, or both. ;)
--
Kookulainamus
7 years ago
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Except that experiences from people pulled back from death by defibrillators, etc seem consistent with what you are saying.