I think there is some sort of afterlife, I just don't have a clue what it is.
Some Doctor around 1900 apparently measured the weight of people as they died, and determined the soul to have a mass of 21 grams.
Science tells us that all points in space-time are connected.
A study at (MIT? Harvard?) on random systems proved that a person concentrating on a specific outcome (making the generator produce "higher" or "lower" numbers) could actually cause the change to occur - at least very slightly.
Personally, I think there has to be some sort of "super-consciousness" that pervades the universe, which we are all a part of. A former girlfriend of mine (who I had not even spoken to in some 15 years) died several years ago, and I had a particularly vivid dream about her on the night she died, where she came to me and said goodbye. While "Technically" it could have been coincidence, I ask why I didn't have vivid dreams of her on any of the other 5000 odd nights since we split up, and why did I randomly dream her coming to say goodbye on the exact night (and roughly the same time) as she died?
I think the answers will be there for us when we die. I also think at the point of dying, we won't care about the "petty" things that bothered us during life - so it won't matter anyway.
Death is essentially the absence of life. Life is about experiences, both good and bad. When there is no life (i.e. death) there can be no experience to speak of. Its nice to think there is something to experience in death and that the answers to the questions of life are given....
But they aren't. You just die. Some people realize they are dying, but nobody actually "experiences" death. You just die. Think of it in the same way of you going to sleep at night. Can you pinpoint for me the exact minute/second when you fell asleep last night? No? Death is the same thing.
If death is just death, please explain how, after no contact and barely a thought for 15 years, I can spontaneously dream of a person WHO JUST DIED - and dream that they are coming to say goodbye. Ergo, there HAS to be SOMETHING after we kick off. I'm not saying we migrate to fields of fluffy clouds and grow a pair of wings, but it can't just be "the end".
Yes, Fatty. I am glad you are back as many of your well reasoned comments are the highlight of my afternoon.
Firstly, Aristotle noted there is a difference between Jones when alive, and Jones when he is dead. If you subtract the sum of all living attributes from the sum of all dead attributes, Aristotle says the difference is Jones soul. Aristotle then says the question begged to be answered is "what is this difference?" because there is a spectrum of answers.
Some say the soul is simply neurological processes. Further along the spectrum is enduring consciousness for a time. Tempest-au seems to be in that camp. As the spectrum continues we get into radical ideas like all physical matter is in some sense spiritual.
Being an Agnostic, my claim is that Aristotle's question cannot be answered. I adhere to the Aetheist's wager, but with accounts of dying patients brought back from death with defibrillators, I think there a good case to be made that it is more than just neurological processes.
If humans have a soul, than every other living thing that has ever existed also has a soul. We aren't special or unique aside from what evolution has allowed us to gain in terms of our highly developed cerebral cortex.
Reviving a "dead" person using modern medicine and science is just a byproduct of our own advancement. Believing anything will be "revealed" at death is humanity trying to understand "life and death".
There is no fully understanding it. No matter how much we progress in science and technology death will always exist and we all have it coming. "Tempest-au" is denial of their own mortality. This is the sort of thinking that religion seizes upon and manipulates into conversion of said person by the promise of "eternal life" or as that same account actually phrased "it can't just be the end".
From a personal standpoint I can't think of any worse punishment than living "forever".
Not true. I'm not even saying that we exist after death for very long in any "individual" capacity - merely as a form of cosmic consciousness. Think of a glass of water. If I throw it into the ocean, it will disperse and become part of that ocean.
Like most rational people, I like to fit my beliefs into what I have observed. I have observed indications that a person's consciousness lives on, even briefly, after death. Unless you can provide a reasonable alternative explanation to my experience above?
Yes, except what can be inferred from your experience?
1. It was probably not a coincidence because it was too unlikely.
2. You were important person in her life, so she wanted to say goodbye.
These things say nothing about a cosmic consciousness. Even if there is such a thing, your experiences would have happened before her consciousness merged into it.
True. However, the fact that I am not alone in experiencing "visitations" from people after they die leads me to the conclusion that there is some form of "Post death" existence. As a rational person, I believe that energy and information can't be destroyed in accordance with the known (or presumed) laws of physics.
Most "Visitations" occur shortly after the death of a person, and tend to diminish in both intensity and "clarity" as time passes. Therefore, there appears to be a "loss of energy/information" occurring. One may therefore conjecture that as this energy/information must go somewhere (so as to adhere to the laws of physics), a non-personalised "super-consciousness" may well be it's ultimate destination.
Of course, there is no more evidence for any of this than for the "invisible man in the sky", so it is every person's right to agree, disagree, or both. ;)
IIN when you die all will be revealed
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I think there is some sort of afterlife, I just don't have a clue what it is.
Some Doctor around 1900 apparently measured the weight of people as they died, and determined the soul to have a mass of 21 grams.
Science tells us that all points in space-time are connected.
A study at (MIT? Harvard?) on random systems proved that a person concentrating on a specific outcome (making the generator produce "higher" or "lower" numbers) could actually cause the change to occur - at least very slightly.
Personally, I think there has to be some sort of "super-consciousness" that pervades the universe, which we are all a part of. A former girlfriend of mine (who I had not even spoken to in some 15 years) died several years ago, and I had a particularly vivid dream about her on the night she died, where she came to me and said goodbye. While "Technically" it could have been coincidence, I ask why I didn't have vivid dreams of her on any of the other 5000 odd nights since we split up, and why did I randomly dream her coming to say goodbye on the exact night (and roughly the same time) as she died?
I think the answers will be there for us when we die. I also think at the point of dying, we won't care about the "petty" things that bothered us during life - so it won't matter anyway.
--
Fatty_McJiggles
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Death is essentially the absence of life. Life is about experiences, both good and bad. When there is no life (i.e. death) there can be no experience to speak of. Its nice to think there is something to experience in death and that the answers to the questions of life are given....
But they aren't. You just die. Some people realize they are dying, but nobody actually "experiences" death. You just die. Think of it in the same way of you going to sleep at night. Can you pinpoint for me the exact minute/second when you fell asleep last night? No? Death is the same thing.
--
Tempest-au
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Kookulainamus
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If death is just death, please explain how, after no contact and barely a thought for 15 years, I can spontaneously dream of a person WHO JUST DIED - and dream that they are coming to say goodbye. Ergo, there HAS to be SOMETHING after we kick off. I'm not saying we migrate to fields of fluffy clouds and grow a pair of wings, but it can't just be "the end".
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I don't care about all that crap
I just want to know everything I don't know now, all those secrets, who cheated, who stole what and so forth.
Yes, Fatty. I am glad you are back as many of your well reasoned comments are the highlight of my afternoon.
Firstly, Aristotle noted there is a difference between Jones when alive, and Jones when he is dead. If you subtract the sum of all living attributes from the sum of all dead attributes, Aristotle says the difference is Jones soul. Aristotle then says the question begged to be answered is "what is this difference?" because there is a spectrum of answers.
Some say the soul is simply neurological processes. Further along the spectrum is enduring consciousness for a time. Tempest-au seems to be in that camp. As the spectrum continues we get into radical ideas like all physical matter is in some sense spiritual.
Being an Agnostic, my claim is that Aristotle's question cannot be answered. I adhere to the Aetheist's wager, but with accounts of dying patients brought back from death with defibrillators, I think there a good case to be made that it is more than just neurological processes.
Any response is welcome.
--
Fatty_McJiggles
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If humans have a soul, than every other living thing that has ever existed also has a soul. We aren't special or unique aside from what evolution has allowed us to gain in terms of our highly developed cerebral cortex.
Reviving a "dead" person using modern medicine and science is just a byproduct of our own advancement. Believing anything will be "revealed" at death is humanity trying to understand "life and death".
There is no fully understanding it. No matter how much we progress in science and technology death will always exist and we all have it coming. "Tempest-au" is denial of their own mortality. This is the sort of thinking that religion seizes upon and manipulates into conversion of said person by the promise of "eternal life" or as that same account actually phrased "it can't just be the end".
From a personal standpoint I can't think of any worse punishment than living "forever".
--
Tempest-au
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Not true. I'm not even saying that we exist after death for very long in any "individual" capacity - merely as a form of cosmic consciousness. Think of a glass of water. If I throw it into the ocean, it will disperse and become part of that ocean.
Like most rational people, I like to fit my beliefs into what I have observed. I have observed indications that a person's consciousness lives on, even briefly, after death. Unless you can provide a reasonable alternative explanation to my experience above?
--
Kookulainamus
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Yes, except what can be inferred from your experience?
1. It was probably not a coincidence because it was too unlikely.
2. You were important person in her life, so she wanted to say goodbye.
These things say nothing about a cosmic consciousness. Even if there is such a thing, your experiences would have happened before her consciousness merged into it.
--
Tempest-au
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True. However, the fact that I am not alone in experiencing "visitations" from people after they die leads me to the conclusion that there is some form of "Post death" existence. As a rational person, I believe that energy and information can't be destroyed in accordance with the known (or presumed) laws of physics.
Most "Visitations" occur shortly after the death of a person, and tend to diminish in both intensity and "clarity" as time passes. Therefore, there appears to be a "loss of energy/information" occurring. One may therefore conjecture that as this energy/information must go somewhere (so as to adhere to the laws of physics), a non-personalised "super-consciousness" may well be it's ultimate destination.
Of course, there is no more evidence for any of this than for the "invisible man in the sky", so it is every person's right to agree, disagree, or both. ;)