I'm sorry didn't mean to offend, in my fictional scenario think of the rubber duck as another gender(it's only a stand in due to lack of appropriate scenarios.)
I get your point and agree with you, having sex with a man would not make you gay, but wanting to do it ,i.e. consenting to do it would. right ?
I can not claim if the same is true for a gay man sleeping with a woman(would that make him straight or not) but for a straight man to do it, he would no longer be straight for wanting to sleep with a man. until he decided/realized that he only wanted to sleep with women.
our wordings may be different, but I think we're both saying pretty much the same thing
You have not offended me at all. But no, we are saying very different things.
You think a straight man has to be gay to engage in a meaningless sex act with a man. But a gay man does not have to be straight to engage in a meaningless sex act with a woman?
They are exactly the same thing to me. What is the difference in your mind?
I am not trying to offend you. You are entitled to your own views and opinions, you don't have to agree with me. I am only trying to understand your views and opinions because I don't get the double standard you seem to be applying.
though they may seem the same they quite aren't especially from a straight person's point of view.
try thinking of it like virginity(not a good example, but I rarely have had any today)
being straight is like a virgin, you can only be straight if you have not slept with a guy or to an extent thought about sleeping with a guy, everybody is considered straight unless proved otherwise. if a person who was not straight declared himself straight you must accept their word. but if you claim to be straight but fancy men, or do not mind sleeping with men, you can not be considered straight.
since having gay thoughts makes you un-straight, just like getting naked and doing stuff would mean that you are no longer a virgin even if you really want to be one.
I apologize again for my very terrible comparisons and such but thanks for replying to my comments all this time, I hope I haven't been disturbing you or keeping you from any important work. =P
I don't agree that everyone is straight until proved otherwise. I don't even know what proof would be. There is no point in my life where I would consider myself straight. I did not prove myself otherwise.
I feel like what you are really saying is that you personally as a straight man could never see yourself doing something like that, and you have determined in your mind that if you are straight and you would not do it, than no straight man would.
But I just don't believe that. There are straight men that are comfortable enough with their sexuality that they can separate sexuality from the act. They are horny, a mouth is available, and they know a mouth feels good. It is all about getting off. They disassociate the person, close their eyes, and imagine a woman or what ever they want is on their dick and just enjoy the pleasure. It is not much different than a guy imaging another hot girl while getting a bj from an ugly chick he is not attracted to. It is all about them and has NOTHING to do with the person hanging off their dick.
You might not be comfortable with that scenario, and that is cool, many straight guys aren't. But there are also many straight guys that are comfortable with it. Though because of fear that people will make assumptions they are gay, very few will speak of it openly.
but does that not mean that straight guys that would not do such a thing are more straight than those who would ?
I mean that guys who are okay with sleeping with other guys are less straighter than guys who would never sleep with a another guy even if they had not relieved their desires for 60 years straight.
I'm sure you don't mean anything by it, but when you seem to say that anyone who is not comfortable with the Idea of sleeping with other men or has 0 gay tendencies is not comfortable with own sexuality, it sounds rather condescending and insulting. It's also untrue. I'm completely comfortable with my identity just as I am sure many other straight guys are.
The reason I think we are having a hard time agreeing is because we're both reaching here with different pre-conceived notions and though processes.
as a straight guy I can't say what includes or excludes an individual from being considered gay or not, but I can say what it means to be straight from a completely straight persons point of view.
No I do not believe that it would make one less straight or the other more straight. I am also not saying that the person who would not do it must not be comfortable with their sexuality, I am just saying their comfort levels are different.
Think about straight males and their feelings on having their asses played with. You can have 2 straight men. They both are completely straight, attracted to women only, both have girl friends.
Guy number one loves to have his butt played with. He loves when his gf fingers him, and he will finger himself or maybe even use other objects when he masturbates.
Guy number two would never even consider having his ass played with. He believes a man having his ass played with is gay no matter what the circumstances. He thinks guys that enjoy this are secretly gay.
I have met straight men who would fit in both categories. Is guy number 2 "more" straight? No. Is one guy right and the other wrong? No. These two men just have different comfort levels.
As you said, I understand your point of view. I just disagree with it. That is fine, we don't have to agree. I don't think you fully understand my point of view, so I am going to make it plain. Once I do, I'm pretty sure you will understand it, disagree with it, and we can move on lol.
In my opinion, being gay or straight has nothing to engaging in sex or sexual acts, it is about sexual attraction only. No sexual act can "change" a persons sexuality. A man can die a virgin and have been completely gay or completely straight, or anything in between, based on attraction.
To take it to an extreme so you completely understand. In my opinion, if a man is attracted only to women, but for some reason spends his entire life having sex only with men, never women, he is straight. If a man is attracted to men, but for some reason spends his entire life having sex with women, never men, he is gay.
Again, that is extreme, and I can't imagine why that choice would be made. But I think it makes it crystal clear that I think sexuality has nothing at all to do with having sex.
I already know you don't agree with that and that is fine. Unless you are still confused about my position or have other questions, I don't think there is more we can really say on the issue.
Regarding movies, I don't want to take this completely off topic. I sent you a private message with an email. If you want to talk about that, or anything else, fell free to email me.
he chose option 1 , hence he Chose to have sex with a man, that cannot be considered straight behavior, as a straight person I would not choose option 1 unless I had some acceptance for sleeping with the same gender, in which case I would not be 100% straight to begin with.
IIN to let a gay guy suck your dick even though you are straight?
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I'm sorry didn't mean to offend, in my fictional scenario think of the rubber duck as another gender(it's only a stand in due to lack of appropriate scenarios.)
I get your point and agree with you, having sex with a man would not make you gay, but wanting to do it ,i.e. consenting to do it would. right ?
I can not claim if the same is true for a gay man sleeping with a woman(would that make him straight or not) but for a straight man to do it, he would no longer be straight for wanting to sleep with a man. until he decided/realized that he only wanted to sleep with women.
our wordings may be different, but I think we're both saying pretty much the same thing
=]
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VinnyB
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JM13087
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You have not offended me at all. But no, we are saying very different things.
You think a straight man has to be gay to engage in a meaningless sex act with a man. But a gay man does not have to be straight to engage in a meaningless sex act with a woman?
They are exactly the same thing to me. What is the difference in your mind?
I am not trying to offend you. You are entitled to your own views and opinions, you don't have to agree with me. I am only trying to understand your views and opinions because I don't get the double standard you seem to be applying.
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JM13087
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Not offended here either.
You seem to have understood my point perfectly.
though they may seem the same they quite aren't especially from a straight person's point of view.
try thinking of it like virginity(not a good example, but I rarely have had any today)
being straight is like a virgin, you can only be straight if you have not slept with a guy or to an extent thought about sleeping with a guy, everybody is considered straight unless proved otherwise. if a person who was not straight declared himself straight you must accept their word. but if you claim to be straight but fancy men, or do not mind sleeping with men, you can not be considered straight.
since having gay thoughts makes you un-straight, just like getting naked and doing stuff would mean that you are no longer a virgin even if you really want to be one.
I apologize again for my very terrible comparisons and such but thanks for replying to my comments all this time, I hope I haven't been disturbing you or keeping you from any important work. =P
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I don't agree that everyone is straight until proved otherwise. I don't even know what proof would be. There is no point in my life where I would consider myself straight. I did not prove myself otherwise.
I feel like what you are really saying is that you personally as a straight man could never see yourself doing something like that, and you have determined in your mind that if you are straight and you would not do it, than no straight man would.
But I just don't believe that. There are straight men that are comfortable enough with their sexuality that they can separate sexuality from the act. They are horny, a mouth is available, and they know a mouth feels good. It is all about getting off. They disassociate the person, close their eyes, and imagine a woman or what ever they want is on their dick and just enjoy the pleasure. It is not much different than a guy imaging another hot girl while getting a bj from an ugly chick he is not attracted to. It is all about them and has NOTHING to do with the person hanging off their dick.
You might not be comfortable with that scenario, and that is cool, many straight guys aren't. But there are also many straight guys that are comfortable with it. Though because of fear that people will make assumptions they are gay, very few will speak of it openly.
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JM13087
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but does that not mean that straight guys that would not do such a thing are more straight than those who would ?
I mean that guys who are okay with sleeping with other guys are less straighter than guys who would never sleep with a another guy even if they had not relieved their desires for 60 years straight.
I'm sure you don't mean anything by it, but when you seem to say that anyone who is not comfortable with the Idea of sleeping with other men or has 0 gay tendencies is not comfortable with own sexuality, it sounds rather condescending and insulting. It's also untrue. I'm completely comfortable with my identity just as I am sure many other straight guys are.
The reason I think we are having a hard time agreeing is because we're both reaching here with different pre-conceived notions and though processes.
as a straight guy I can't say what includes or excludes an individual from being considered gay or not, but I can say what it means to be straight from a completely straight persons point of view.
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JM13087
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Not related, just curious , Did you go see any movies recently ?
looking forward to any?
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No I do not believe that it would make one less straight or the other more straight. I am also not saying that the person who would not do it must not be comfortable with their sexuality, I am just saying their comfort levels are different.
Think about straight males and their feelings on having their asses played with. You can have 2 straight men. They both are completely straight, attracted to women only, both have girl friends.
Guy number one loves to have his butt played with. He loves when his gf fingers him, and he will finger himself or maybe even use other objects when he masturbates.
Guy number two would never even consider having his ass played with. He believes a man having his ass played with is gay no matter what the circumstances. He thinks guys that enjoy this are secretly gay.
I have met straight men who would fit in both categories. Is guy number 2 "more" straight? No. Is one guy right and the other wrong? No. These two men just have different comfort levels.
As you said, I understand your point of view. I just disagree with it. That is fine, we don't have to agree. I don't think you fully understand my point of view, so I am going to make it plain. Once I do, I'm pretty sure you will understand it, disagree with it, and we can move on lol.
In my opinion, being gay or straight has nothing to engaging in sex or sexual acts, it is about sexual attraction only. No sexual act can "change" a persons sexuality. A man can die a virgin and have been completely gay or completely straight, or anything in between, based on attraction.
To take it to an extreme so you completely understand. In my opinion, if a man is attracted only to women, but for some reason spends his entire life having sex only with men, never women, he is straight. If a man is attracted to men, but for some reason spends his entire life having sex with women, never men, he is gay.
Again, that is extreme, and I can't imagine why that choice would be made. But I think it makes it crystal clear that I think sexuality has nothing at all to do with having sex.
I already know you don't agree with that and that is fine. Unless you are still confused about my position or have other questions, I don't think there is more we can really say on the issue.
Regarding movies, I don't want to take this completely off topic. I sent you a private message with an email. If you want to talk about that, or anything else, fell free to email me.
The asker had a choice:
1) he could consent, say Yes
or
2) refuse, say No
he chose option 1 , hence he Chose to have sex with a man, that cannot be considered straight behavior, as a straight person I would not choose option 1 unless I had some acceptance for sleeping with the same gender, in which case I would not be 100% straight to begin with.