I'm not justifying it, it's part of my mission. I have certain personal beliefs, principles and goals (a sort of manifesto, if you will) and I take it very seriously. This is just one small part of the puzzle. But I'm not going to go in depth about the whole deal, right now anyway.
You and I have very different motives, indeed!
I'm indifferent about the emotional pain I cause as well but I do have interest in my effect.
You're justifying it to your own moral boundaries, which means you are still trying to justify it.
No need to go in to depth about it.
I am not sure if you are indifferent towards it, as you said, you like how they react, where as a person indifferent towards it generally would not care.
If you mean justification as in "making it right", then you're wrong. I don't think it's wrong so there's no need to make it right. I'm also not trying to prove to others that they should see it as right. I'm not "selling" my ideas to anyone. I haven't even stated my ideas or goals.
If by justify you mean simply "give reason for" then, yes, I guess you could say that but "justification" is a rather strong word. There's a reason people do everything they do. You justify what you do in that sense of the word because you said you do it just to prove you CAN do it. For me, I do it because it's part of my larger goal. It's no different from a motivation to clean the bathroom. My justification for cleaning the toilet is "because it's dirty and it's one step in cleaning the bathroom". Same thing here. It just has to be done, it's a step in attaining the goal.
I'm indifferent towards the emotional stress I cause on a personal level (I don't care about the individual or his feelings) but since this is part of a larger goal naturally I have a vested interest in my effect (so I enjoy that I HAVE hurt them). Like when you pull a prank - You set it up, you know someone is going to get victimized but you're not concerned with sparing his feelings, you wait, you watch, they fall for it, then you enjoy the fruit of your labor, you enjoy seeing his reaction that YOU caused with YOUR work. It's the proof of your success. It doesn't mean you care about the person, it means you care about your "work".
Going to be honest, and no offense intended, but I stopped reading at the first paragraph. I'm just too ill to put enough effort in to reading and responding to this, as I can't say I care enough about putting the effort in as much as I can see it going to need if it progresses any further
It's not a new subject for me to be involved in, as I have myself been involved and talked to people with very same views on the subject as yourself, so I don't exactly feel the motivation to engage in the topic again.
Unfortunately, my curiosity has gotten the best of me, and I have seen little nips of your response, and again, no offense intended, but I think it is filled with too many contradictions. Such as, "If you mean justification by making it right, you are wrong" and "Give a reason to justify it, then yes". That mixed with what I said and how you are justifying it by your own idea of justification, it just seems too contradicting.
Same goes for the "I am indifferent towards their feelings", but you enjoy the conclusion that makes them show emotion, be it good or bad.
I think you are trying to portray yourself in a manner that isn't actually who you are, or at least not 100%. That's just my two cents. It happens on the site often.
I think your confusion would be cleared up if you fully read and understand my post. Your questions about it are already answered. There's no contradictions.
I will try to simplify the main points even more for you.
Justify definition:
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid
2. To declare free of blame; absolve.
3. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.
4. Law
a. To demonstrate sufficient legal reason for (an action taken).
b. To prove to be qualified as a bondsman.
5. Printing To adjust the spacing within (lines in a document, for example), so that the lines end evenly at a straight margin.
The typical use of the word "justify" is to prove something to be "right" or "just".
"If you mean justification as in "making it right", then you're wrong."
There's nothing complex about this. I don't think in terms of right and wrong so I'd never even venture into that territory of trying to make what I do "right". Nothing is right or wrong, it just "IS". If I don't think it's wrong, then why would I try to make it be right? I wouldn't, and I'm not.
If you use the term "justify" to mean validate or lend reasoning behind then I guess that could be construed as acceptable however as I said above "justify" seems a strong word for that and I don't like the ambiguity. I'm also not trying AT ALL to demonstrate my reasoning (I haven't even stated my reasoning OR goal) to anyone else so this fact makes justify even less of a proper word here.
*Basically, I think justify is the wrong word.
"Same goes for the "I am indifferent towards their feelings", but you enjoy the conclusion that makes them show emotion, be it good or bad."
*I don't care ABOUT them personally but I care that my work has had effect. Who doesn't want to know that their work is paying off? The emotion shows the effect, it proves success and lends to the ultimate goal. It's a "paycheck". I really don't know how to simplify this any more. I put a very good analogy in the previous post to explain this. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
Quite frankly, I am getting a bored, and my flu is getting worse.
You are trying to seperate "reason" with "justification".
Here is the definition, copy and pasted, of "reason".
rea·son
/ˈrēzən/
Noun
A cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
"Justification".
Quite frankly, my response to you was more so to see how hard you would try convince me of this image you are showing.
I only "really" read this bit properly:
"*I don't care ABOUT them personally but I care that my work has had effect. Who doesn't want to know that their work is paying off? The emotion shows the effect, it proves success and lends to the ultimate goal. It's a "paycheck". I really don't know how to simplify this any more. I put a very good analogy in the previous post to explain this. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that."
The work was the theft, not the victim of the theft, as you said, you are indifferent towards the victim. The effect and success of theft is that you have the thing you thieved, not who you thieved from. You can't say the success of the act is how the victim acts, then say you are indifferent towards the victim. That is saying you are indifferent towards the goal and ends, which means you wouldn't care about thieving as much as you claim to care about it.
You give me definitions of justify, but I am sure you skipped the actual definition shown right at the top when you Google it because you know it complies with what I am saying. Here is the definition:
jus·ti·fy
/ˈjəstəˌfī/
Verb
Show or prove to be right or reasonable.
Be a good reason for.
To "reason".
There is nothing complex about this. You are trying to come off as sadistic and liking how people react to your bad deed, all while trying to say you are indifferent (don't care) about how they react.
You are making contradictions, how you can't see that is beyond me.
I think you care about trying to portray this image too much, as you spend a lot of time trying to convince me that what you say is true.
"Quite frankly, my response to you was more so to see how hard you would try convince me of this image you are showing."
Yes, it's pretty obvious that you were being purposely pig headed and trying to incite a pissing contest. If you'd like to continue talking then proceed as a man, not a child.
I have made no portrayal of myself as anything other than a thief. I think you're trying to create something there that isn't. I have stated NOTHING of my ideas, goals, achievements or any such thing.
Moving along.
"The work was the theft, not the victim of the theft.....The effect and success of theft is that you have the thing you thieved, not who you thieved from."
This is your opinion on your theft, not mine. We are 2 different people with 2 different motives and 2 different outcomes, you can't thrust your idea and motivations of theft to me. Remember this: --*My goal includes A LOT more than just having the item*-- Again, I have not ever stated my goal so don't make assumptions.
I'm indifferent to his feelings as a person to another person. This means I don't feel guilt or remorse for victimizing him. However his loss is my gain, in more ways than one, thus I enjoy his loss and I enjoy his distress. Part of my goal includes causing distress, hence I enjoy it when it happens. Got that now?
"You give me definitions of justify, but I am sure you skipped the actual definition shown right at the top when you Google it because you know it complies with what I am saying."
I used freedictionary because I have it on my toolbar, there was nothing underhanded going on with that. If you want to continue to use justify then that's your right. I object to it and won't use it myself because of the strong connotations of "making right" and the ambiguity. There are much more fitting and less influencing terms than justify. Motive would be a much better term.
"You are trying to come off as sadistic and liking how people react to your bad deed"
You got the wrong impression, once again you are reading more into it than is there. The reaction is crucial because it lends to the goal. It's really as simple as that but you don't know what my goal is so I wouldn't expect you to fully understand this. It has nothing to do with being sadistic (I don't believe I am sadistic), and my actual purpose of causing&enjoying distress is very far from that.
If I'm making contradictions then outline them. So far the ones you think you've noticed have just been your own misunderstandings.
Is it normal to have the "responsibility" to steal?
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I'm not justifying it, it's part of my mission. I have certain personal beliefs, principles and goals (a sort of manifesto, if you will) and I take it very seriously. This is just one small part of the puzzle. But I'm not going to go in depth about the whole deal, right now anyway.
You and I have very different motives, indeed!
I'm indifferent about the emotional pain I cause as well but I do have interest in my effect.
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You're justifying it to your own moral boundaries, which means you are still trying to justify it.
No need to go in to depth about it.
I am not sure if you are indifferent towards it, as you said, you like how they react, where as a person indifferent towards it generally would not care.
Who knows.
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What moral boundaries?
If you mean justification as in "making it right", then you're wrong. I don't think it's wrong so there's no need to make it right. I'm also not trying to prove to others that they should see it as right. I'm not "selling" my ideas to anyone. I haven't even stated my ideas or goals.
If by justify you mean simply "give reason for" then, yes, I guess you could say that but "justification" is a rather strong word. There's a reason people do everything they do. You justify what you do in that sense of the word because you said you do it just to prove you CAN do it. For me, I do it because it's part of my larger goal. It's no different from a motivation to clean the bathroom. My justification for cleaning the toilet is "because it's dirty and it's one step in cleaning the bathroom". Same thing here. It just has to be done, it's a step in attaining the goal.
I'm indifferent towards the emotional stress I cause on a personal level (I don't care about the individual or his feelings) but since this is part of a larger goal naturally I have a vested interest in my effect (so I enjoy that I HAVE hurt them). Like when you pull a prank - You set it up, you know someone is going to get victimized but you're not concerned with sparing his feelings, you wait, you watch, they fall for it, then you enjoy the fruit of your labor, you enjoy seeing his reaction that YOU caused with YOUR work. It's the proof of your success. It doesn't mean you care about the person, it means you care about your "work".
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Going to be honest, and no offense intended, but I stopped reading at the first paragraph. I'm just too ill to put enough effort in to reading and responding to this, as I can't say I care enough about putting the effort in as much as I can see it going to need if it progresses any further
It's not a new subject for me to be involved in, as I have myself been involved and talked to people with very same views on the subject as yourself, so I don't exactly feel the motivation to engage in the topic again.
Unfortunately, my curiosity has gotten the best of me, and I have seen little nips of your response, and again, no offense intended, but I think it is filled with too many contradictions. Such as, "If you mean justification by making it right, you are wrong" and "Give a reason to justify it, then yes". That mixed with what I said and how you are justifying it by your own idea of justification, it just seems too contradicting.
Same goes for the "I am indifferent towards their feelings", but you enjoy the conclusion that makes them show emotion, be it good or bad.
I think you are trying to portray yourself in a manner that isn't actually who you are, or at least not 100%. That's just my two cents. It happens on the site often.
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I think your confusion would be cleared up if you fully read and understand my post. Your questions about it are already answered. There's no contradictions.
I will try to simplify the main points even more for you.
Justify definition:
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid
2. To declare free of blame; absolve.
3. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.
4. Law
a. To demonstrate sufficient legal reason for (an action taken).
b. To prove to be qualified as a bondsman.
5. Printing To adjust the spacing within (lines in a document, for example), so that the lines end evenly at a straight margin.
The typical use of the word "justify" is to prove something to be "right" or "just".
"If you mean justification as in "making it right", then you're wrong."
There's nothing complex about this. I don't think in terms of right and wrong so I'd never even venture into that territory of trying to make what I do "right". Nothing is right or wrong, it just "IS". If I don't think it's wrong, then why would I try to make it be right? I wouldn't, and I'm not.
If you use the term "justify" to mean validate or lend reasoning behind then I guess that could be construed as acceptable however as I said above "justify" seems a strong word for that and I don't like the ambiguity. I'm also not trying AT ALL to demonstrate my reasoning (I haven't even stated my reasoning OR goal) to anyone else so this fact makes justify even less of a proper word here.
*Basically, I think justify is the wrong word.
"Same goes for the "I am indifferent towards their feelings", but you enjoy the conclusion that makes them show emotion, be it good or bad."
*I don't care ABOUT them personally but I care that my work has had effect. Who doesn't want to know that their work is paying off? The emotion shows the effect, it proves success and lends to the ultimate goal. It's a "paycheck". I really don't know how to simplify this any more. I put a very good analogy in the previous post to explain this. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
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Quite frankly, I am getting a bored, and my flu is getting worse.
You are trying to seperate "reason" with "justification".
Here is the definition, copy and pasted, of "reason".
rea·son
/ˈrēzən/
Noun
A cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
"Justification".
Quite frankly, my response to you was more so to see how hard you would try convince me of this image you are showing.
I only "really" read this bit properly:
"*I don't care ABOUT them personally but I care that my work has had effect. Who doesn't want to know that their work is paying off? The emotion shows the effect, it proves success and lends to the ultimate goal. It's a "paycheck". I really don't know how to simplify this any more. I put a very good analogy in the previous post to explain this. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that."
The work was the theft, not the victim of the theft, as you said, you are indifferent towards the victim. The effect and success of theft is that you have the thing you thieved, not who you thieved from. You can't say the success of the act is how the victim acts, then say you are indifferent towards the victim. That is saying you are indifferent towards the goal and ends, which means you wouldn't care about thieving as much as you claim to care about it.
You give me definitions of justify, but I am sure you skipped the actual definition shown right at the top when you Google it because you know it complies with what I am saying. Here is the definition:
jus·ti·fy
/ˈjəstəˌfī/
Verb
Show or prove to be right or reasonable.
Be a good reason for.
To "reason".
There is nothing complex about this. You are trying to come off as sadistic and liking how people react to your bad deed, all while trying to say you are indifferent (don't care) about how they react.
You are making contradictions, how you can't see that is beyond me.
I think you care about trying to portray this image too much, as you spend a lot of time trying to convince me that what you say is true.
--
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"Quite frankly, my response to you was more so to see how hard you would try convince me of this image you are showing."
Yes, it's pretty obvious that you were being purposely pig headed and trying to incite a pissing contest. If you'd like to continue talking then proceed as a man, not a child.
I have made no portrayal of myself as anything other than a thief. I think you're trying to create something there that isn't. I have stated NOTHING of my ideas, goals, achievements or any such thing.
Moving along.
"The work was the theft, not the victim of the theft.....The effect and success of theft is that you have the thing you thieved, not who you thieved from."
This is your opinion on your theft, not mine. We are 2 different people with 2 different motives and 2 different outcomes, you can't thrust your idea and motivations of theft to me. Remember this: --*My goal includes A LOT more than just having the item*-- Again, I have not ever stated my goal so don't make assumptions.
I'm indifferent to his feelings as a person to another person. This means I don't feel guilt or remorse for victimizing him. However his loss is my gain, in more ways than one, thus I enjoy his loss and I enjoy his distress. Part of my goal includes causing distress, hence I enjoy it when it happens. Got that now?
"You give me definitions of justify, but I am sure you skipped the actual definition shown right at the top when you Google it because you know it complies with what I am saying."
I used freedictionary because I have it on my toolbar, there was nothing underhanded going on with that. If you want to continue to use justify then that's your right. I object to it and won't use it myself because of the strong connotations of "making right" and the ambiguity. There are much more fitting and less influencing terms than justify. Motive would be a much better term.
"You are trying to come off as sadistic and liking how people react to your bad deed"
You got the wrong impression, once again you are reading more into it than is there. The reaction is crucial because it lends to the goal. It's really as simple as that but you don't know what my goal is so I wouldn't expect you to fully understand this. It has nothing to do with being sadistic (I don't believe I am sadistic), and my actual purpose of causing&enjoying distress is very far from that.
If I'm making contradictions then outline them. So far the ones you think you've noticed have just been your own misunderstandings.