Wishful thinking combined with egotism; it's human nature to believe deep down that we're a vital component of the cosmos, and we all want to believe that our existence isn't limited to the few years our body is alive.
As a contrarian, I believe many people are too dumb to realize their own woefully low ability to recognize logical reasoning. Some people are able to work the mathematics behind the astronomical permutations of chemical events in abiogenesis, as well as recognize the very simple rules under which randomness gets us from accretion in planetary formation to our present biosphere. This demonstrates that we are nothing special. And, also that a few of us have proved to be intelligent enough to recognize that this recognition in itself is a satisfying accomplishment.
I'm with you Booj. The universe is cold, empty and indifferent. I'm happy about that reality because at least it's real (not existentially absurd). Warning: my mindspace isn't for everyone. Clunk42 please take note.
I think a big part of the problem is that the vast majority of people (including myself) have problems really grasping the absolutely enormous numbers involved in describing the natural world.
You've probably heard the parallel used before, but I only recently heard someone in a YouTube video using the number of seconds in various periods of time as an aid to understanding. So:
A thousand seconds is 17 minutes (Easy enough to grasp.)
A million seconds is 12 days (Hmmmm... okay.)
A billion seconds is 31 years (Say what?)
A trillion seconds is 31,000 years. (Damn!)
This came up in an atheist YouTuber's critique of a video by a creationist, where they pointed out how the bible-thumper constantly referred to evolutionary biologists saying that all living species had evolved over MILLIONS of years, when in fact it's estimated that life first arose more than 3.5 BILLION years ago. Creationists - especially young-earth creationists - are fools, but it takes a rare sort of blinkered ignorance to get the numbers behind what they consider their competing theory wrong by a factor in the hundreds or thousands.
And while we all would like to believe that we're super-special, the fact is that we're not. First, more than 100 billion people have ever lived and around 8 billion people are alive today, so we're all just a single face in a vast crowd. Then there's the fact that there are around 100 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy alone, and it's very likely there either are now, have been or will be other intelligent species (who quite possibly each consider themselves super-special too) on planets orbiting thousands or even millions of those stars.
Expanding the view, there are about 2 trillion galaxies (so, a count equal to all the seconds in 62,000 years) in the universe. Each of those will contain around 100 million stars, and so there will be vast numbers of planets in the Goldilocks Zone in those galaxies too.
It's simply absurd to believe that the deity in charge of this whole shebang only got around to letting humanity know about his existence a couple thousand years ago, and this omniscient being chose to do so via a bunch of blood-thirsty, barely-literate sheep- and goat-herds in an arid, backward corner of the Middle East. (I mean, if an omniscient deity really wanted to make a splash so humanity would bow down and worship his needy ass, he would know that the time would come when a huge proportion of the world's population was walking around with a device that allowed instantaneous audio-visual communication in their pocket.)
It's even more ridiculous and narcissistically egotistical to believe that this deity cares enough about individuals to punish and reward them for what they do during a lifetime that would be less than the blink of a hypothetical eye for such a hypothetical eternal being.
Well, take heart buddy. What you lack in mathematics, you have compensated for by using common sense. Just a couple of loosely related points of interest.
1. Large numbers are best grappled by using powers of 10. Adding exponents to multiply is simple. (2 * 10^12 galaxies times 10^11 stars per galaxy is 2*10^23 stars).
2. Evolution has programmed people to over estimate small probabilities. In fact, Statistics is the branch of Mathematics with heaps of counter intuitive theorems.
3. I am regularly accused by philosophy majors of obnoxious ignorance for failing to accept that the certainty of God could only by expressed by an infinitely long number.
I respond by saying the number of milliseconds since the Big Bang is only 1.044*10^23. Certainty beyond that point is irrelevant. And, assert that their philosophical pedantic attitude is what’s obnoxious. (They don’t appreciate my straw man.).
Anyway, check the chapter in your daughter's algebra book on permutations, combinations, and factorial functions. It’s easy reading that is absorbed quickly. Your daughter might enjoy using the material to help support her Dad with quantitative arguments. I have found that kids can be nice people sometimes.
Is it normal to believe everyone will be tortured in the afterlife forever?
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Wishful thinking combined with egotism; it's human nature to believe deep down that we're a vital component of the cosmos, and we all want to believe that our existence isn't limited to the few years our body is alive.
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dude_Jones
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As a contrarian, I believe many people are too dumb to realize their own woefully low ability to recognize logical reasoning. Some people are able to work the mathematics behind the astronomical permutations of chemical events in abiogenesis, as well as recognize the very simple rules under which randomness gets us from accretion in planetary formation to our present biosphere. This demonstrates that we are nothing special. And, also that a few of us have proved to be intelligent enough to recognize that this recognition in itself is a satisfying accomplishment.
I'm with you Booj. The universe is cold, empty and indifferent. I'm happy about that reality because at least it's real (not existentially absurd). Warning: my mindspace isn't for everyone. Clunk42 please take note.
--
Boojum
1 year ago
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I think a big part of the problem is that the vast majority of people (including myself) have problems really grasping the absolutely enormous numbers involved in describing the natural world.
You've probably heard the parallel used before, but I only recently heard someone in a YouTube video using the number of seconds in various periods of time as an aid to understanding. So:
A thousand seconds is 17 minutes (Easy enough to grasp.)
A million seconds is 12 days (Hmmmm... okay.)
A billion seconds is 31 years (Say what?)
A trillion seconds is 31,000 years. (Damn!)
This came up in an atheist YouTuber's critique of a video by a creationist, where they pointed out how the bible-thumper constantly referred to evolutionary biologists saying that all living species had evolved over MILLIONS of years, when in fact it's estimated that life first arose more than 3.5 BILLION years ago. Creationists - especially young-earth creationists - are fools, but it takes a rare sort of blinkered ignorance to get the numbers behind what they consider their competing theory wrong by a factor in the hundreds or thousands.
And while we all would like to believe that we're super-special, the fact is that we're not. First, more than 100 billion people have ever lived and around 8 billion people are alive today, so we're all just a single face in a vast crowd. Then there's the fact that there are around 100 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy alone, and it's very likely there either are now, have been or will be other intelligent species (who quite possibly each consider themselves super-special too) on planets orbiting thousands or even millions of those stars.
Expanding the view, there are about 2 trillion galaxies (so, a count equal to all the seconds in 62,000 years) in the universe. Each of those will contain around 100 million stars, and so there will be vast numbers of planets in the Goldilocks Zone in those galaxies too.
It's simply absurd to believe that the deity in charge of this whole shebang only got around to letting humanity know about his existence a couple thousand years ago, and this omniscient being chose to do so via a bunch of blood-thirsty, barely-literate sheep- and goat-herds in an arid, backward corner of the Middle East. (I mean, if an omniscient deity really wanted to make a splash so humanity would bow down and worship his needy ass, he would know that the time would come when a huge proportion of the world's population was walking around with a device that allowed instantaneous audio-visual communication in their pocket.)
It's even more ridiculous and narcissistically egotistical to believe that this deity cares enough about individuals to punish and reward them for what they do during a lifetime that would be less than the blink of a hypothetical eye for such a hypothetical eternal being.
--
dude_Jones
1 year ago
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Well, take heart buddy. What you lack in mathematics, you have compensated for by using common sense. Just a couple of loosely related points of interest.
1. Large numbers are best grappled by using powers of 10. Adding exponents to multiply is simple. (2 * 10^12 galaxies times 10^11 stars per galaxy is 2*10^23 stars).
2. Evolution has programmed people to over estimate small probabilities. In fact, Statistics is the branch of Mathematics with heaps of counter intuitive theorems.
3. I am regularly accused by philosophy majors of obnoxious ignorance for failing to accept that the certainty of God could only by expressed by an infinitely long number.
I respond by saying the number of milliseconds since the Big Bang is only 1.044*10^23. Certainty beyond that point is irrelevant. And, assert that their philosophical pedantic attitude is what’s obnoxious. (They don’t appreciate my straw man.).
Anyway, check the chapter in your daughter's algebra book on permutations, combinations, and factorial functions. It’s easy reading that is absorbed quickly. Your daughter might enjoy using the material to help support her Dad with quantitative arguments. I have found that kids can be nice people sometimes.