I totally believe in evolution 100%.
The question here is if there is some kind of God that created the universe, and the reasoning is that we can't really look back to the instant of creation, or before, which is why I'm undecided.
Also, for those that are confused, the weak part of weak agnostic theist is that I could change sides, like I believe we could figure out someday. Strong agnostics believe that the fact we don't know is fundamental and can never change. (Strong agnostic: You cannot know if there is a god. Weak agnostic: We do not know if there is one at this point in time.)
Additional clearing up: "Instant of Creation" refers to the literal beginning of the universe some 13.7 billion years ago. Not a scene in a religious book.The leading theory is that it was the big bang.
Also, my beliefs aren't attached to any school of thought, christian or otherwise.
I brought up this unrelated 'evolution' stuff, when we are really talking about why even entertain the idea of a god, because..
-Originally the church stated that Earth was the center of the universe, and the Sun revolved around us. Science unraveled that mystery (after a few scientific intellectuals were killed or jailed by the Church)
-Originally the 'church' stated that when people die young, that's because god takes the good (the good die young) We now know through science that disease, cancer, germs and/or a whole range of things can kill humans at a young (or any) age.
-Originally the 'church' stated that EVOLUTION was nonsense, and god created the world and light then the sun etc! SCIENCE has conclusively determined that evolution is now FACT.
The 'theory of evolution' is a scientific term. Its like the 'theory of gravity' even the theory of life itself!!
But these things are FACTS. They are so much proven factual 100% that they now teach evolution to ALL public school children. Evolution is fact.
NEXT, (and by the way its 13.81 Billion years)
To be 'agnostic' of the possibility of a god, is EXACTLY the same as being agnostic of anything at all. Who knows, maybe no one else exists, this could all be in your dream. You could be agnostic to everything.
We get to knowledge and reasoning through discovering FACTS. We build on these facts with more facts. (Discoveries; testing; re-testing; re-testing with as MANY ways as humanly possible.
Here's the crunch.
So far. ALL (ALL) facts point to NO god (not even 1 or 2 or millions of them).
ALL facts point to a natural universe and all life in it (including humans only 200K years ago) We keep testing and branching further and further out into the universe. All natural nothing supernatural ever.
Agnosticism? This is a transition from foolish (Christian) to midway (agnostic) and then to the truth (atheist).
I honestly wish you NATURAL speed of your brain to get you there quickly ;)
My point is though, there are no facts directly disproving a god either. No one at this point in time could possibly know why the universe sprung into existence. There are more or less two possible answers:
1) The universe just is. It exists for no reason, it just is.
2) The universe was created by something. We couldn't know the point of this either.
I find the latter a more satisfying answer, so I stick to being an agnostic theist.
There is no other explanation or reason to my beliefs other than that. You could not see before the creation of the universe, so you cannot prove me wrong.
Either way, this argument is getting us nowhere. I respect your opinion, and likewise, I would appreciate if you respected mine, even if you think I'm on the verge of truth. I enjoyed the discussion, however.
Well science doesn't like the word 'created' as the church has destroyed its meaning, by saying they own it.
My understanding (without even looking up the exact atheist forum response).
Is that there isn't any 'reason' for the universe, it started naturally from the Big Bang.
So that would be 1 and half or 2. (I say half or 2, because it wasn't a 'something' that 'created' the universe.
Some say time started and that caused movement. Personally I feel time had always been going on, and the human brain cannot understand infinity. Anyway, science continues on this, we are at 1 second after the bang at this point.
Agree thanks for the discussion.
Obviously I was hoping that you would move your opinions but that's just my arrogance its obviously just up to you. (to see the facts :) )
Is it normal to be undecided on the existence of a god?
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I totally believe in evolution 100%.
The question here is if there is some kind of God that created the universe, and the reasoning is that we can't really look back to the instant of creation, or before, which is why I'm undecided.
Also, for those that are confused, the weak part of weak agnostic theist is that I could change sides, like I believe we could figure out someday. Strong agnostics believe that the fact we don't know is fundamental and can never change. (Strong agnostic: You cannot know if there is a god. Weak agnostic: We do not know if there is one at this point in time.)
Hope that cleared things up!
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IncludedSos
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Additional clearing up: "Instant of Creation" refers to the literal beginning of the universe some 13.7 billion years ago. Not a scene in a religious book.The leading theory is that it was the big bang.
Also, my beliefs aren't attached to any school of thought, christian or otherwise.
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It does help clearing things up.
I brought up this unrelated 'evolution' stuff, when we are really talking about why even entertain the idea of a god, because..
-Originally the church stated that Earth was the center of the universe, and the Sun revolved around us. Science unraveled that mystery (after a few scientific intellectuals were killed or jailed by the Church)
-Originally the 'church' stated that when people die young, that's because god takes the good (the good die young) We now know through science that disease, cancer, germs and/or a whole range of things can kill humans at a young (or any) age.
-Originally the 'church' stated that EVOLUTION was nonsense, and god created the world and light then the sun etc! SCIENCE has conclusively determined that evolution is now FACT.
The 'theory of evolution' is a scientific term. Its like the 'theory of gravity' even the theory of life itself!!
But these things are FACTS. They are so much proven factual 100% that they now teach evolution to ALL public school children. Evolution is fact.
NEXT, (and by the way its 13.81 Billion years)
To be 'agnostic' of the possibility of a god, is EXACTLY the same as being agnostic of anything at all. Who knows, maybe no one else exists, this could all be in your dream. You could be agnostic to everything.
We get to knowledge and reasoning through discovering FACTS. We build on these facts with more facts. (Discoveries; testing; re-testing; re-testing with as MANY ways as humanly possible.
Here's the crunch.
So far. ALL (ALL) facts point to NO god (not even 1 or 2 or millions of them).
ALL facts point to a natural universe and all life in it (including humans only 200K years ago) We keep testing and branching further and further out into the universe. All natural nothing supernatural ever.
Agnosticism? This is a transition from foolish (Christian) to midway (agnostic) and then to the truth (atheist).
I honestly wish you NATURAL speed of your brain to get you there quickly ;)
Edit:// Fixed up a couple spelling errors.
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IncludedSos
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My point is though, there are no facts directly disproving a god either. No one at this point in time could possibly know why the universe sprung into existence. There are more or less two possible answers:
1) The universe just is. It exists for no reason, it just is.
2) The universe was created by something. We couldn't know the point of this either.
I find the latter a more satisfying answer, so I stick to being an agnostic theist.
There is no other explanation or reason to my beliefs other than that. You could not see before the creation of the universe, so you cannot prove me wrong.
Either way, this argument is getting us nowhere. I respect your opinion, and likewise, I would appreciate if you respected mine, even if you think I'm on the verge of truth. I enjoyed the discussion, however.
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Dad
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Well science doesn't like the word 'created' as the church has destroyed its meaning, by saying they own it.
My understanding (without even looking up the exact atheist forum response).
Is that there isn't any 'reason' for the universe, it started naturally from the Big Bang.
So that would be 1 and half or 2. (I say half or 2, because it wasn't a 'something' that 'created' the universe.
Some say time started and that caused movement. Personally I feel time had always been going on, and the human brain cannot understand infinity. Anyway, science continues on this, we are at 1 second after the bang at this point.
Agree thanks for the discussion.
Obviously I was hoping that you would move your opinions but that's just my arrogance its obviously just up to you. (to see the facts :) )