Is it normal to be mixed and 50/50 on feminism

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19 Comments

A lot of people are either super pro-feminism or think it's totally ridiculous. Personally, I think feminists have a lot of important concerns that people ignore but often take things too far and ruin their argument with ridiculous claims.

I tried to find a happy middle ground, but neither side will accept anything other than what they believe in. So I decided to stop trying to compromise and please and just believe what I believe.

Is it that common to both support and oppose feminism, on varying levels?

Voting Results
79% Normal
Based on 29 votes (23 yes)
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Comments ( 19 )
  • [Old Memory]
    7 years ago

    I'm a feminist and I agree that some of us take it too far. I think if you believe in the core value (gender equality), then you can consider yourself a feminist. I get that many women tend to twist the concept of feminism into male-bashing, but many other organizations, especially religions, have that large sum of people that twist the beliefs into something ugly. It's counterproductive and annoying as hell, but it happened all the time.
    I'm all for feminism. The real feminism. But when I hear a "feminist" male-bashing, I simply tell them that they're not a real feminist. ;P

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  • alone?
    10 years ago

    yes! and thank you for being this way!, this means u are a person who thinks about what they believe as opposed to following a group, thank you for being a real person! aren enough people like u in the world, not just on feminism but beliefs period

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  • Terence_the_viking
    10 years ago

    But i like Bra's.

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  • ProseAthlete
    10 years ago

    It's completely normal because it depends on how you define feminism.

    If you mean "Hey, women and men should have autonomy over their own bodies, get paid the same for the same work and otherwise be treated as human beings with inherent dignity," you'll find most people agreeing with that kind of feminism. If you mean "Women have been oppressed by rape culture for so long that they've internalized it and now deserve extra help to climb out of a societal hole dug for them by brutal men," then you're going to have far fewer believers.

    There are so many types of feminism now that just saying you're a feminist is almost meaningless. Radical feminism, reform feminism, gender feminism, cultural feminism...if feminists can't agree on what the term means, then it's entirely normal to feel ambivalent about it.

    You're free to take issues on a case-by-case basis. I'm curious, though, about the ridiculous claims people are making that you don't agree with. If you don't agree that all sex degrades women, for instance -- and yes, there have been some feminists who claimed that -- that seems reasonable. If you have ever uttered the phrase "legitimate rape" un-ironically, on the other hand...yeah, you are probably saying something pretty awful.

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  • SuperBenzid
    10 years ago

    I am very conflicted on feminism. The broad goal of equality is fine and I do believe that there is still progress to be made.

    Emotionally it is because a majority of the time when I have discussed things with feminists, they have always brought it back to me being a male and therefore(somehow) I was wrong or unable to understand. I don't enjoy being made to feel inferior because of my gender and it has taught me that the vast majority of feminists have no interest in equality.

    The intellectual problem I have with feminism is in the main some of the core beliefs. Like the belief in Patriarchy, there is no secret conspiracy of men plotting how to keep women down. In the past female Midwives were a big part of oppressing women through giving evidence in court on pre-marital pregnancy, illicit sex and even on witchcraft. The term patriarchy ignores the reality that both genders play a part in maintaining whatever gender power balance exists.

    Also feminist groups have been known to make very misleading claims. Like the whole wage gap farce. Is it really men's fault that women have by and large chosen not to work in engineering and IT? Or chosen not do any of the dangerous less skilled work that pays more?
    I don't known what feminists want us to do in this scenario. Force women to work in fields and do jobs they don't want to do? Take a large chunk of money away from highly skilled and productive occupations and give it to women that chose not to train for those occupations?

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    • ProseAthlete
      10 years ago

      Telling you that you don't see things from the same viewpoint shouldn't make you feel inferior. Women who tell you that you don't know what it's like to be female aren't trying to make you feel wrong, ignorant or inferior; they're telling the truth.

      I remember my husband asking me a while back why I always took a different route home. It was surprising to me that he didn't; I was always taught to take different routes home because that's what women traveling alone do. He was floored; it had never occurred to him that women -- even confident women who like men and don't fear them -- do this as a matter of course. We don't even think about it. It isn't a decision; it's a habit as ingrained as how we brush our teeth.

      I can tell my husband what that's like, but he doesn't viscerally understand it. That isn't an insult to him; it's just a fact.

      As for the wage gap, it specifically exists within the same industries; it isn't just comparing secretaries and doctors. You're right that some of that gap arises from women's own choices; every woman who steps off the career ladder to have a kid won't have the same earning power as a man who worked for the same number of years, nor should she. What feminists -- no, what reasonable people -- expect should be done about the wage gap is to pay employees who do the same work at the same level and with the same quality the same.

      Period.

      By the way, most current feminist thought does acknowledge that the concept of "patriarchy" is harmful to both men and women. Men who face uphill battles for custody rights, who are ashamed to come forward in cases of domestic abuse or rape, and who get short shrift on paternity leave are just as much victims of narrow, rigid gender roles as women who get passed over for promotions or can't get their birth control covered by their medical insurance.

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      • SuperBenzid
        10 years ago

        "I can tell my husband what that's like, but he doesn't viscerally understand it. That isn't an insult to him; it's just a fact. "

        I mean no offence to you personally but I keep thinking about and laughing at this statement. Your husband who is twice as likely to be assaulted by a stranger as you just can't understand what it is like to be in danger?

        It's a real feminist Marie Antoinette "Let them eat cake" moment. Honestly I have to ask who misled you that women are less safe than men? Women have far less reason to fear strangers than men do.

        You're a bit like an American talking to a Syrian refugee and saying "Gun crime is bad in my area, there are a lot of shootings. You wouldn't know what that is like... You just couldn't understand. No Offense".

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      • SuperBenzid
        10 years ago

        "Women who tell you that you don't know what it's like to be female aren't trying to make you feel wrong, ignorant or inferior; they're telling the truth. "

        Imagine if someone said to a black person "sorry you just can't understand things white people understand, no matter how we try and explain it to you". How would you think that black person would feel? How do you think I feel?

        You see they tell me I am incapable of understanding because I am a man. If the problem cannot be explained to men then it is pointless trying to solve it, since any solution would require men to change their behavior. Also just dismissing my statements because I am a man isn't just fallacious it is designed to marginalize and make me feel inferior.

        "He was floored; it had never occurred to him that women -- even confident women who like men and don't fear them -- do this as a matter of course. We don't even think about it."

        Let me get this straight. I am a young male adult. A member of the highest statistical victim group of violent assault. Yet your implying that I cannot understand what it is like to fear violence?
        In most western countries (I don't know which country you are in) your husband is about twice as likely to be victimized by a stranger than you are.
        You can look that up yourself btw at the US DOJ or the British violent crime victimization surveys.

        "As for the wage gap, it specifically exists within the same industries; it isn't just comparing secretaries and doctors."
        US department of Labor has found that the wage gap between the same work is 3%. This 3% is thought to be because men as a whole work more overtime than women.

        <a href="http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/articles/?id=2160" rel="nofollow">http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/artic...</a>

        "acknowledge that the concept of "patriarchy" is harmful to both men and women. Men who face uphill battles for custody rights"

        Feminism has historically been on the side that supported men facing those uphill battles, the NOW feminist organization was a big supporter of disparate laws in that area during the 70s.
        On your last paragraph I agree with most of the things you say, I just cannot see why that is called patriarchy. Gender roles reduce the freedom of both genders and should be fought as such.

        Birth control should be free for all people in my opinion. It isn't just the right thing to do, it is also a cost saving measure.

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      • [Old Memory]
        10 years ago

        Don't you have anything better to do than sit here and write long ass comments? Go wash the dishes, go cook something, woman!

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        • KaffeInjection
          10 years ago

          Redneck check.

          Possibly inbred check.

          Bald check.

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        • ProseAthlete
          10 years ago

          When I get bored between assignments, I like to come here and give my brain a rest. Because I type 120 words a minute or so, those long-ass posts only represent a break of about 5 or 6 minutes (I do take some time to think).

          Oh, and my husband's a chef, so he does way better cooking than I do. I did make him a sandwich before bed, though, because I am awesome like that. :)

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          • KaffeInjection
            10 years ago

            Hes a chef?... NICE.. My oldest brother is too, what kind of food does he work with?

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            • ProseAthlete
              10 years ago

              He's in production during the week and on the line for brunch on the weekends, so he gets his hands in a lot of stuff. :) Prepping meat and seafood shipments as they come in, smoking the bacon, brining the chickens, making the pate', pickling vegetables, making preserves and chutneys, filling in for the pastry chef and making cinnamon buns and red velvet cakes -- he pretty much does it all. The restaurant is an eclectic take on New Orleans style food, so he gets plenty of variety in what he does.

              What does your older brother do in the kitchen? Whatever it is, I know it's hard work. Chefs are woefully under-appreciated, aren't they?

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  • Anime7
    10 years ago

    It's normal to believe anything to a certain degree. Feminism is no different.

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  • suckonthis9
    10 years ago

    Please do not use -ists or -isms.

    Thank you.

    A politicized female.

    What is a female school of thought?

    An act, practice or process of being a female?

    A manner of action or behavior characteristic of a female person or thing?

    Prejudice or discrimination on the basis of a female attribute?

    A female state, condition or property?

    An abnormal state or condition resulting from excess of a female, or marked by resemblance to (such) a person or thing?

    An exclusively female doctrine, theory or religion?

    Adherence to a female system or a female class of principles?
    Wait, nearly half of society is male!

    Characteristic or peculiar feature or trait of females?

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    • suckonthis9
      10 years ago

      You should split, not be split.

      Undivided.

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      • BlueJeansWhiteShirt
        10 years ago

        You're hanging.

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        • suckonthis9
          10 years ago

          In which way?

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          • BlueJeansWhiteShirt
            10 years ago

            It means you are disgusting.

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