I work in Security and I'd say, as far as rudeness, I think you are talking about way too low of a number.
I worked in Security at a medical center and there is a rule here in California that you can't smoke within about 20 feet within an open door or window at a medical facility. There were plenty of signs all over the area clearly stating "No smoking within 20 feet". I still caught people smoking.
I would politely approach them and tell them "Hey, can you take that into the parking lot?", which is 20 feet away from the building. I'd either get a response of hostility "WELL CAN I SMOKE HERE...?" as they step away slowly, a response of jackassery "This isn't right, these laws are trampling my rights!", sometimes they'd put it out and grumble or they'd wait for me to walk away before going back to the open door and smoking near it again, they'd throw the cigarette in the trash WITHOUT putting it out prompting me to have to write a Fire Report and put the fire out... or they'd go into the parking lot, politely.
The rude responses were in such number that eventually, I stopped giving a shit, especially when I heard so many times "I didn't see the sign". They were right there. Right. There. That didn't stop me from being polite, but it did make me much more standoffish. I wasn't willing to listen to shit.
There is literally no way to distinguish a "polite" smoker from an asshole. Some of those assholes were very nicely dressed and drove nice cars, some of them looked like shit, some of them were somewhere in between. I have dealt with so much abrasiveness from smokers that I expect it. Smokers were the bane of my existence while working there. Some of them were cool, but usually, they tried almost to a stupid extent to smoke wherever the hell they wanted and had little regard for the rules of the building, especially in regards to cigarette butt disposal.
You will probably say that my experience doesn't justify my caution and my frustration with "all" smokers, no, it doesn't. However, I think you give the entirety of smokers way too much credit. At least my experience, from working both in low and high income areas, smokers can be very hostile, especially when they are trying to get their fix. People don't like being told what to do, especially when they know they shouldn't be doing it.
You'd be surprised how often people think they should be able to get away with breaking the rules. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but in my experience, both as a Security guard and as a person, people really don't like being told what to do.
"I work in Security and I'd say, as far as rudeness, I think you are talking about way too low of a number."
Your logic is faulty. Due to the nature of your security work, obviously you come in contact with a much higher percent of assholes/rule breakers, and you don't notice the ones who finished their smoke in their car or before they got too close as much or at all.
I'm not saying it's right but rent-a-cops are not very respected at all, so maybe you get it worse just for that, too.
I didn't say it was logical nor did I say it justifies anything. I don't think my being in security changes the fact that those people I dealt with were assholes though, and I think it would only say more about them that they disrespect ME because of what I do to pay the bills. A good, decent person (smoker) would not react to me due to my uniform anymore than I should act towards them due to the cigarette in their hand.
My point was that with experiences like mine and anyone that must deal with smokers in public on a regular basis eg. People who have children that require special accommodation and the like, people that must regularly ask smokers for courtesy, it's difficult to see all smokers as angelic and be sweet and kind when they're puffing at you in public. Take a kid with asthma to a bus stop 5 days a week as many of my friends have and you'll see what I mean.
I clearly stated that when a smoker is specifically rude and unresponsive to polite requests to adjust their smoking behavior, it is understandable to respond in kind. The entire point of the post is to say that this sort of aggressive, abrasive, and disrespectful behavior is unnecessary.
Nothing at all about this observation is meant to be inclusive of smokers that behave like jackasses. That's pretty obviously not something worth defending. Nobody likes jackasses.
I can understand that when a majority of your experiences with smokers has been negative, a defensive posture is taken when dealing with them in general. This is logical, and you don't strike me as someone that would go out of their way to specifically be rude to someone, but our experiences do influence our actions.
A smoker who doesn't like being told what to do and who responds negatively may very well deserve a negative reaction. I'm not talking about these people.
What I'm talking about is people who do nothing intentionally to aggravate others, who even go out of their way to be considerate, STILL get often frequent condemnation for their smoking. It's just absurd.
The trend isn't just among smokers, either. It's considered "okay" to be rude to ANY smoker by a lot of people and I think that's wrong. I see this same "I have a free pass to be a dick" behavior directed towards things that are culturally unpopular:
Smokers
Pro-lifers
Conservatives
Military personnel
I see a lot of REALLY GOOD people, people with good hearts and who show consideration and respect to their fellow human being that belong to these groups that just get lambasted by people that believe for some reason their "moral high ground" gives them the right to be jerks. I think this behavior is on par with the behavior shown by the worst examples of the demographic they are targeting with their hostility.
I understand perfectly what you meant. My point was that with experiences like mine, and that of people who DO have children with asthma or the like who must ask smokers to show courtesy on a regular basis, sometimes it's difficult to assume that all smokers are as angelic as the "good smokers" you speak of.
I understand what.you mean but from what I got in your article, you were mainly referring to smokers. I can do nothing but sympathize with your general statement as I am a Mormon and it's nothing but cool to shit talk Mormons in our country - I have known people who have never spoken to a Mormon in their lives talk like they're somehow theological experts.
It's the mentality that "My views are the logical/informed views.thus I am right and you are wrong". In my experience, those that preach tolerance the loudest can be the least tolerant overall towards opposing or different views.
It's not a pleasant situation to be in for anyone on any side of the spectrum, that's why I feel we should work hard to overcome these judgmental views and actions.
It's just as hard for someone who is told by christians on a regular basis that they are sinful, evil, abominations who will burn in hell for all eternity for their disgusting perversions of God's will to view ANY christians (mormons included) as the so-called "angelic" christians some people speak of.
The most we can do is treat our fellow human beings with dignity and respect, and be the better person by giving them the benefit of the doubt. I don't like being treated like dirt because I enjoy tobacco from time to time. I don't like to hear that you have been treated poorly for having personal beliefs that matter to you. To make it all stop, we have to pay it forward.
So in other words, it's not cool to dis smokers on the premise that some of them are truly assholes about their habit despite many of them being polite but it's cool to dis Christians and Mormons because some of them are assholes about their religion, regardless of whether they are polite and respectful of others beliefs... interesting view.
I understand what you're getting at regarding paying it forward but I don't think that you should be punished for the rudeness of other smokers any more than I should for the rudeness of other Christians. My only point was that when dealing with smokers on a regular basis, it's sometimes difficult to see the next one you'll deal with with a clean reputation, and the same logic can be applied to Christians too. None of that, however, justifies outward rudeness to the individual where none has yet to bet to be received... but I would say ot justifies caution.
Woah woah woah, please re-read everything that I've written in every comment here!
NOWHERE have I ever said that I support, condone, or even suggest discrimination based on beliefs!!
In fact the entire point is to prove that that is exactly the sort of behavior I'm attempting to discourage! ESPECIALLY against Christian groups!
I'm speaking out against stereoptyping, against generalizing and against judging a person based on just a few experiences with people in their demographic. I mentioned what I did about Christians to show that they suffer this unfair, unjust and dehumanizing behavior as well. I did not say and most assuredly do not believe it is OK for anyone to treat you poorly for your religion. Unless you are angrily trying to FORCE them to bend to your ways you have done nothing to deserve that behavior. I believe the message was misinterpreted and I apologize for it not being clear.
Is it normal to be awe-struck by socially-accepted rudeness?
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I work in Security and I'd say, as far as rudeness, I think you are talking about way too low of a number.
I worked in Security at a medical center and there is a rule here in California that you can't smoke within about 20 feet within an open door or window at a medical facility. There were plenty of signs all over the area clearly stating "No smoking within 20 feet". I still caught people smoking.
I would politely approach them and tell them "Hey, can you take that into the parking lot?", which is 20 feet away from the building. I'd either get a response of hostility "WELL CAN I SMOKE HERE...?" as they step away slowly, a response of jackassery "This isn't right, these laws are trampling my rights!", sometimes they'd put it out and grumble or they'd wait for me to walk away before going back to the open door and smoking near it again, they'd throw the cigarette in the trash WITHOUT putting it out prompting me to have to write a Fire Report and put the fire out... or they'd go into the parking lot, politely.
The rude responses were in such number that eventually, I stopped giving a shit, especially when I heard so many times "I didn't see the sign". They were right there. Right. There. That didn't stop me from being polite, but it did make me much more standoffish. I wasn't willing to listen to shit.
There is literally no way to distinguish a "polite" smoker from an asshole. Some of those assholes were very nicely dressed and drove nice cars, some of them looked like shit, some of them were somewhere in between. I have dealt with so much abrasiveness from smokers that I expect it. Smokers were the bane of my existence while working there. Some of them were cool, but usually, they tried almost to a stupid extent to smoke wherever the hell they wanted and had little regard for the rules of the building, especially in regards to cigarette butt disposal.
You will probably say that my experience doesn't justify my caution and my frustration with "all" smokers, no, it doesn't. However, I think you give the entirety of smokers way too much credit. At least my experience, from working both in low and high income areas, smokers can be very hostile, especially when they are trying to get their fix. People don't like being told what to do, especially when they know they shouldn't be doing it.
You'd be surprised how often people think they should be able to get away with breaking the rules. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but in my experience, both as a Security guard and as a person, people really don't like being told what to do.
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"I work in Security and I'd say, as far as rudeness, I think you are talking about way too low of a number."
Your logic is faulty. Due to the nature of your security work, obviously you come in contact with a much higher percent of assholes/rule breakers, and you don't notice the ones who finished their smoke in their car or before they got too close as much or at all.
I'm not saying it's right but rent-a-cops are not very respected at all, so maybe you get it worse just for that, too.
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NeuroNeptunian
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I didn't say it was logical nor did I say it justifies anything. I don't think my being in security changes the fact that those people I dealt with were assholes though, and I think it would only say more about them that they disrespect ME because of what I do to pay the bills. A good, decent person (smoker) would not react to me due to my uniform anymore than I should act towards them due to the cigarette in their hand.
My point was that with experiences like mine and anyone that must deal with smokers in public on a regular basis eg. People who have children that require special accommodation and the like, people that must regularly ask smokers for courtesy, it's difficult to see all smokers as angelic and be sweet and kind when they're puffing at you in public. Take a kid with asthma to a bus stop 5 days a week as many of my friends have and you'll see what I mean.
I clearly stated that when a smoker is specifically rude and unresponsive to polite requests to adjust their smoking behavior, it is understandable to respond in kind. The entire point of the post is to say that this sort of aggressive, abrasive, and disrespectful behavior is unnecessary.
Nothing at all about this observation is meant to be inclusive of smokers that behave like jackasses. That's pretty obviously not something worth defending. Nobody likes jackasses.
I can understand that when a majority of your experiences with smokers has been negative, a defensive posture is taken when dealing with them in general. This is logical, and you don't strike me as someone that would go out of their way to specifically be rude to someone, but our experiences do influence our actions.
A smoker who doesn't like being told what to do and who responds negatively may very well deserve a negative reaction. I'm not talking about these people.
What I'm talking about is people who do nothing intentionally to aggravate others, who even go out of their way to be considerate, STILL get often frequent condemnation for their smoking. It's just absurd.
The trend isn't just among smokers, either. It's considered "okay" to be rude to ANY smoker by a lot of people and I think that's wrong. I see this same "I have a free pass to be a dick" behavior directed towards things that are culturally unpopular:
Smokers
Pro-lifers
Conservatives
Military personnel
I see a lot of REALLY GOOD people, people with good hearts and who show consideration and respect to their fellow human being that belong to these groups that just get lambasted by people that believe for some reason their "moral high ground" gives them the right to be jerks. I think this behavior is on par with the behavior shown by the worst examples of the demographic they are targeting with their hostility.
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I understand perfectly what you meant. My point was that with experiences like mine, and that of people who DO have children with asthma or the like who must ask smokers to show courtesy on a regular basis, sometimes it's difficult to assume that all smokers are as angelic as the "good smokers" you speak of.
I understand what.you mean but from what I got in your article, you were mainly referring to smokers. I can do nothing but sympathize with your general statement as I am a Mormon and it's nothing but cool to shit talk Mormons in our country - I have known people who have never spoken to a Mormon in their lives talk like they're somehow theological experts.
It's the mentality that "My views are the logical/informed views.thus I am right and you are wrong". In my experience, those that preach tolerance the loudest can be the least tolerant overall towards opposing or different views.
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It's not a pleasant situation to be in for anyone on any side of the spectrum, that's why I feel we should work hard to overcome these judgmental views and actions.
It's just as hard for someone who is told by christians on a regular basis that they are sinful, evil, abominations who will burn in hell for all eternity for their disgusting perversions of God's will to view ANY christians (mormons included) as the so-called "angelic" christians some people speak of.
The most we can do is treat our fellow human beings with dignity and respect, and be the better person by giving them the benefit of the doubt. I don't like being treated like dirt because I enjoy tobacco from time to time. I don't like to hear that you have been treated poorly for having personal beliefs that matter to you. To make it all stop, we have to pay it forward.
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So in other words, it's not cool to dis smokers on the premise that some of them are truly assholes about their habit despite many of them being polite but it's cool to dis Christians and Mormons because some of them are assholes about their religion, regardless of whether they are polite and respectful of others beliefs... interesting view.
I understand what you're getting at regarding paying it forward but I don't think that you should be punished for the rudeness of other smokers any more than I should for the rudeness of other Christians. My only point was that when dealing with smokers on a regular basis, it's sometimes difficult to see the next one you'll deal with with a clean reputation, and the same logic can be applied to Christians too. None of that, however, justifies outward rudeness to the individual where none has yet to bet to be received... but I would say ot justifies caution.
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NeuroNeptunian
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Woah woah woah, please re-read everything that I've written in every comment here!
NOWHERE have I ever said that I support, condone, or even suggest discrimination based on beliefs!!
In fact the entire point is to prove that that is exactly the sort of behavior I'm attempting to discourage! ESPECIALLY against Christian groups!
I'm speaking out against stereoptyping, against generalizing and against judging a person based on just a few experiences with people in their demographic. I mentioned what I did about Christians to show that they suffer this unfair, unjust and dehumanizing behavior as well. I did not say and most assuredly do not believe it is OK for anyone to treat you poorly for your religion. Unless you are angrily trying to FORCE them to bend to your ways you have done nothing to deserve that behavior. I believe the message was misinterpreted and I apologize for it not being clear.
Apologies for the typing. It is incredibly difficult to scroll and type on a touch screen.