I just don't know what causes 1 kid to be a problem child and another to be totally fine, assuming they had the same parenting. But it's a big assumption.
I really wonder how much punishment is necessary and how much is determined by the parenting. Because I've seen some kids get an ass whipping on a regular basis and still act totally stupid. Again it could be a learned behavior for attention..
I'm up in the air on this one. But kids acting up after a certain point do need to be punished. They can get out of hand and it's extremely irresponsible to release that onto the rest of the public. That's a failure as a parent if not.
Negative behaviour like that is usually caused by bad parenting, and bad parents are more likely to resort to physical punishment because they're not invested enough to learn any positive behaviour guidance techniques.
I've worked as a nanny for 18 years, and seen a range of parenting styles, as well as being educated in behaviour guidance. I have never had to hit, yell at, or in anyway humiliate a child who is misbehaving. I'm often (not always, of course) able to head off negative behaviour because I'm observing the kids and can see it coming. It's not a difficult skill to learn. Nor are non violent methods of discipline, which actually teach the child instead of harming them.
It baffles me that some people are so lazy with their position of caretaking a human being.
I've never smacked any of my kids. I never would. I have shouted at them more often than I would like, but it's still very rare, and is usually reserved for emergencies - e.g. I walk into a room to find my kid about to eat superglue (happened once). So I'm shouting because I'm panicking. Not really their fault. As soon as the danger has been averted I always give them a big hug and explain what happened, so hopefully they learn.
Exactly. It's not necessary to hit or always yell. I have also done that: raised my voice to avert a crisis. And it's that much more effective in that crucial moment precisely because I generally don't raise my voice.
I've also lost my patience and snapped at kids before. Any human will eventually. And that's an opportunity to teach them about emotions and sincere apologies.
From what I know of you, you sound like a great mum. And that's not an easy task. I'm always in awe of good parents. You don't get paid and you don't get a break. I couldn't do that haha.
I agree that shouting has a much bigger impact when it's so rare. When I shouted at my daughter she flinched, and then stood still like a statue for enough time for me to run over to her and get the superglue out of her hand. I felt bad because it obviously frightened her, and she sobbed hysterically about it, but at least I stopped her from doing something dangerous. If I shouted at her all the time she probably would have ignored me and proceeded to eat the superglue.
And I'm glad to hear that you apologise to the kids when you've snapped at them. A lot of adults have this weird idea that you should never apologise to a child. I don't get it. If an apology is actually warranted then it sets a great example to your kids if you say sorry to them. They model the behaviour of their caregivers.
It's very kind of you to say that I'm a great mum. It doesn't always seem that way to me. My own mum was a violent bully. I think she does actually love me, deep down, but it's hard to see it most of the time. She was badly abused as a child and I think it was just a classic case of the abuse cycle. I'm determined to be a loving mum that my kids aren't afraid of, but it is difficult when you don't have a good example to follow from. So I think I'm sometimes not strict enough with my kids because I'm needlessly worried about them feeling scared of me or unloved by me. But hey, I'm doing my best and that's all any of us can do.
Yeah...it always feels bad to upset them...but upset definitely is a step up from swallowing superglue...
My grandmother thinks I'm insane for apologising to them for anything, but especially if I snap. Um. No. I'm an adult, they're a child. I have the bigger responsibility to remain in control than they do. I'll explain to them why I did what I did, but also make it clear it doesn't excuse my behaviour. If I expect it from them (to an age appropriate degree) then I sure as fuck need to do it, too.
I'm sorry to hear about your mum :( I feel like being willing to make that effort to be better honestly makes more of a difference than we can realise. I was partly raised by my grandmother and she was raised by an awful, emotionally abusive mother and carried her own scars from that...plus the generational expectations...I feel like each generation improves upon the last in our family, apart from the ones that don't care to try.
It is a hard balance...but honestly, "strictness" is not as important as loving boundaries.
You sound like your best is working really well. You should be proud of yourself.
I have a question then, I told someone id watch their son for a week or so while they were at work. I'm a super easy going guy and I've read alot about psychology / some child psychology.
Nothing worked with this kid. He's 5 or 6 and was out of hand from the beginning. Back talking, threatening me, commanding me to do things etc and doing whatever he could to piss me off. It worked after about 3 hours. I did yell at the kid eventually as he wouldn't stop unlocking and opening the door as I was in the bathroom. I told his dad I couldn't continue to watch him after the first day.
What would you do in a case like that? I can't express just how much this kid was a prick intentionally every moment. His other 2 siblings are 12 and 13 or so and they're great, I've never had an issue with them. They took my side and handled him soon as they got home until their dad got off work while the youngest was destroying everything.
Really hard to do much with a kid for one week...you can't really build up a relationship with them. I can totally understand why you lost your cool with him.
It sounds like he's been given no boundaries at all. Maybe a combination of being the youngest and having a strong personality.
It's hard to say what would/could work without actually observing the child and knowing their background, but generally speaking, you've got to be exhaustingly proactive with a kid like that...keep them super occupied and your full, invested attention, so they dont get a chance to be "bad", then positively reinforcing the behaviours you want to see. Consequences for bad behaviours that are proportionate and non negotiable. I have a no hurting others and no causing damage blanket policy. That behaviour immediately results in removal of whatever they've used to cause harm, potentially removing them from the situation, requiring them to help make reparations (take care of who you hurt, clean up mess, etc etc) and calm explanation of why. Toddlers'll probably scream at first because the reason they've acted this way is processing biiig emotions/attention seeking and it's happened because I haven't been on the ball. My current almost three year old bopped me on the head the other week with a telescope and got it taken away and I ended up hugging him because he was crying haha. But we talked through, I explained that hurting other people isn't acceptable. He hasn't done it again, and I've seen his role playing reflect that he has taken the lesson on board.
Ideally, I see it coming before it escalates, and I defuse the situation either with redirection or discussion and diffusion.
A five or six year old who has been allowed to get to the level you're describing isn't going to be an easy fix. It comes down to how his parents have reinforced his behaviour (potentially they've grown lax in their youngest...age difference between kids? He may have been a particularly strong willed toddler and they didn't have the time or energy to invest? Kids are fucking exhausting...but not putting the time in seriously fucks you all up...)
Idk if any of that helps. It's pretty general. It doesn't sound like a fun situation for anyone there. I feel bad for the kid, the siblings and you.
Well, I won't go into too much detail but one of the parents is in prison, due to an incident of negligence that put the youngest in the hospital. That probably had some impact on the kid. The other parent is abusive. Not really more than my own father was, but still abusive. So I just try and be a positive influence if I can, by being a good example when I'm around.
IIN That parents don't want to punish their children for bad behavior?
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I just don't know what causes 1 kid to be a problem child and another to be totally fine, assuming they had the same parenting. But it's a big assumption.
I really wonder how much punishment is necessary and how much is determined by the parenting. Because I've seen some kids get an ass whipping on a regular basis and still act totally stupid. Again it could be a learned behavior for attention..
I'm up in the air on this one. But kids acting up after a certain point do need to be punished. They can get out of hand and it's extremely irresponsible to release that onto the rest of the public. That's a failure as a parent if not.
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charli.m
2 years ago
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Negative behaviour like that is usually caused by bad parenting, and bad parents are more likely to resort to physical punishment because they're not invested enough to learn any positive behaviour guidance techniques.
I've worked as a nanny for 18 years, and seen a range of parenting styles, as well as being educated in behaviour guidance. I have never had to hit, yell at, or in anyway humiliate a child who is misbehaving. I'm often (not always, of course) able to head off negative behaviour because I'm observing the kids and can see it coming. It's not a difficult skill to learn. Nor are non violent methods of discipline, which actually teach the child instead of harming them.
It baffles me that some people are so lazy with their position of caretaking a human being.
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Pilum
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I've never smacked any of my kids. I never would. I have shouted at them more often than I would like, but it's still very rare, and is usually reserved for emergencies - e.g. I walk into a room to find my kid about to eat superglue (happened once). So I'm shouting because I'm panicking. Not really their fault. As soon as the danger has been averted I always give them a big hug and explain what happened, so hopefully they learn.
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charli.m
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Exactly. It's not necessary to hit or always yell. I have also done that: raised my voice to avert a crisis. And it's that much more effective in that crucial moment precisely because I generally don't raise my voice.
I've also lost my patience and snapped at kids before. Any human will eventually. And that's an opportunity to teach them about emotions and sincere apologies.
From what I know of you, you sound like a great mum. And that's not an easy task. I'm always in awe of good parents. You don't get paid and you don't get a break. I couldn't do that haha.
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SwickDinging
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I agree that shouting has a much bigger impact when it's so rare. When I shouted at my daughter she flinched, and then stood still like a statue for enough time for me to run over to her and get the superglue out of her hand. I felt bad because it obviously frightened her, and she sobbed hysterically about it, but at least I stopped her from doing something dangerous. If I shouted at her all the time she probably would have ignored me and proceeded to eat the superglue.
And I'm glad to hear that you apologise to the kids when you've snapped at them. A lot of adults have this weird idea that you should never apologise to a child. I don't get it. If an apology is actually warranted then it sets a great example to your kids if you say sorry to them. They model the behaviour of their caregivers.
It's very kind of you to say that I'm a great mum. It doesn't always seem that way to me. My own mum was a violent bully. I think she does actually love me, deep down, but it's hard to see it most of the time. She was badly abused as a child and I think it was just a classic case of the abuse cycle. I'm determined to be a loving mum that my kids aren't afraid of, but it is difficult when you don't have a good example to follow from. So I think I'm sometimes not strict enough with my kids because I'm needlessly worried about them feeling scared of me or unloved by me. But hey, I'm doing my best and that's all any of us can do.
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charli.m
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Yeah...it always feels bad to upset them...but upset definitely is a step up from swallowing superglue...
My grandmother thinks I'm insane for apologising to them for anything, but especially if I snap. Um. No. I'm an adult, they're a child. I have the bigger responsibility to remain in control than they do. I'll explain to them why I did what I did, but also make it clear it doesn't excuse my behaviour. If I expect it from them (to an age appropriate degree) then I sure as fuck need to do it, too.
I'm sorry to hear about your mum :( I feel like being willing to make that effort to be better honestly makes more of a difference than we can realise. I was partly raised by my grandmother and she was raised by an awful, emotionally abusive mother and carried her own scars from that...plus the generational expectations...I feel like each generation improves upon the last in our family, apart from the ones that don't care to try.
It is a hard balance...but honestly, "strictness" is not as important as loving boundaries.
You sound like your best is working really well. You should be proud of yourself.
I have a question then, I told someone id watch their son for a week or so while they were at work. I'm a super easy going guy and I've read alot about psychology / some child psychology.
Nothing worked with this kid. He's 5 or 6 and was out of hand from the beginning. Back talking, threatening me, commanding me to do things etc and doing whatever he could to piss me off. It worked after about 3 hours. I did yell at the kid eventually as he wouldn't stop unlocking and opening the door as I was in the bathroom. I told his dad I couldn't continue to watch him after the first day.
What would you do in a case like that? I can't express just how much this kid was a prick intentionally every moment. His other 2 siblings are 12 and 13 or so and they're great, I've never had an issue with them. They took my side and handled him soon as they got home until their dad got off work while the youngest was destroying everything.
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charli.m
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Really hard to do much with a kid for one week...you can't really build up a relationship with them. I can totally understand why you lost your cool with him.
It sounds like he's been given no boundaries at all. Maybe a combination of being the youngest and having a strong personality.
It's hard to say what would/could work without actually observing the child and knowing their background, but generally speaking, you've got to be exhaustingly proactive with a kid like that...keep them super occupied and your full, invested attention, so they dont get a chance to be "bad", then positively reinforcing the behaviours you want to see. Consequences for bad behaviours that are proportionate and non negotiable. I have a no hurting others and no causing damage blanket policy. That behaviour immediately results in removal of whatever they've used to cause harm, potentially removing them from the situation, requiring them to help make reparations (take care of who you hurt, clean up mess, etc etc) and calm explanation of why. Toddlers'll probably scream at first because the reason they've acted this way is processing biiig emotions/attention seeking and it's happened because I haven't been on the ball. My current almost three year old bopped me on the head the other week with a telescope and got it taken away and I ended up hugging him because he was crying haha. But we talked through, I explained that hurting other people isn't acceptable. He hasn't done it again, and I've seen his role playing reflect that he has taken the lesson on board.
Ideally, I see it coming before it escalates, and I defuse the situation either with redirection or discussion and diffusion.
A five or six year old who has been allowed to get to the level you're describing isn't going to be an easy fix. It comes down to how his parents have reinforced his behaviour (potentially they've grown lax in their youngest...age difference between kids? He may have been a particularly strong willed toddler and they didn't have the time or energy to invest? Kids are fucking exhausting...but not putting the time in seriously fucks you all up...)
Idk if any of that helps. It's pretty general. It doesn't sound like a fun situation for anyone there. I feel bad for the kid, the siblings and you.
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Well, I won't go into too much detail but one of the parents is in prison, due to an incident of negligence that put the youngest in the hospital. That probably had some impact on the kid. The other parent is abusive. Not really more than my own father was, but still abusive. So I just try and be a positive influence if I can, by being a good example when I'm around.
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charli.m
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Shit. Poor kids. Yeah, that'll definitely be impacting them.
You sound like you're doing a great job. Kid's lucky to have someone who cares.