Congratulations! You're getting an award for compeletely missunderstanding my question.
It's not because I "personally don't like them", I don't like 99% of all people. It's because they are in fact evil, and bad, and - not worthy of love.
So, you think guys like Andrew Kehoe or Andrei Chikatilo deserved to be loved? (and please don't gimmie that speech about their hard lifes and not having been loved during the childhood).
An fully grown up, already bloody handed mass murderer and child molester ALSO deserves love, like everybody else. Is that what you are saying?
Your problem is that you are mistaken on several things.
1) Your original list of criteria said NOTHING about mass murders and molesters. You only talked about people who were "ugly and scruffy, stupid and mischievous people you see on a daily basis."
Your list sounds more like it's based on appearance, personal opinion, and light misbehaving. But somehow everyone's suppose to know you meant molesters, rapists, and other hardened criminals?
2) You seem to be under the assumption that "deserving of love" means the same thing as "not punishing people for their actions"
Where in my reply did I ever state people shouldn't be punished for their crimes? No where. You just ASSUMED it because I said they "deserved love"
Yes people can - and should - be punished for their actions.
But they can still be loved.
To me it's like... a man I knew in the Navy. I saw him on the cover of the Navy Times a few years ago. He was being sent to the brig following a court martial. His crime was seducing others (even using his rank for it) while knowing he was HIV positive.
It was weird because he was someone I had liked.
According to your post it seems I'm suppose to hate him now. But I don't. Yes he deserves every bit of the punishment he gets. Yet I can't stop pitying him for his own sexual addictions and hope that he can change. It doesn't mean I'd trust him again but I am not obliged to hate his guts either.
1) I really couldn't make it any easier. Read the first question of my story. It says: "Do you think there are people who don't deserve to be loved?" As an example(!) I wrote about people, who are combinations of all the bad things that came to my mind.
2) Lovely story about that Navy man, but it doesn't hit the point of my question. So that man is still deserving of love, in your opinion. That's fine. Is there somebody, anybody, who isn't? It is in fact a very, very simple question.
I'll start. I think, a person, who combines all the bad traits one can have in him - ugly and scruffy, stupid and mischievous, coldblooded killer with a nasty habit of killing and raping little school girls without remorse, is not worthy of love. Such a person does not deserve love. Do you, or do you not agree with that?
1) You assume everyone is suppose to hate. And that love means being gentle and coddling.
Love of all people does not mean we have to give up on punishing them. You can include them in "love for mankind" and still want justice to be taken on them.
2) Your list of what traits these criminals have is inaccurate. You seem to think they're all ugly, dumb, and scruffy.
Yet if you actually studied the 'worst of the worst' you will find that it's the opposite.
The worst of them were actually smart, well groomed, and attractive. If anything these positive features HELPED them gain access to their victims. They were so "successful" (if you want to call it success) at what they did because people originally judged them on appearance and like you they assumed "good looks" meant "good person".
For the record: of course I do NOT think all criminals are ugly, dumb, and scruffy. I have seen enough actual criminals in my life. I am talking about a hypothetical case. Let's say there were a guy, who is *put everything bad in here* all those things. You think he deserves love, even after he anally raped his 6 daughters or killed 1000 new born babies. It's fine.
I think I get your position now. You're all for love + punishment, or love during punishment or something.
I'm going to have to agree with Angel, "ugly and scruffy, stupid and mischievous people you see on a daily basis" sounds a lot more like "that kid in high school" than "cold-blooded serial killer". In fact, none of those traits are really inherently evil to me. I see what you're saying now, but don't patronize someone for misunderstanding your poor wording.
Allright. My choice of words and my phrasing might not have been the best. My apologies for the poor wording, to you and to Angel.
I really thought the first sentence made the question clear. Which is: Whether there is at least one person - the kid in high school, the cold blooded serial killer, me, Charles Manson or Adolf Hitler - who doesn't/didn't deserve love.
It's an interesting question, really, and a difficult one. Assuming that by "love" you mean some kind of compassion or understanding, then I'd probably argue that yes, everyone is deserving of that. The idea that we should kill killers on the grounds that killing is bad has always been a bizarre idea to me. What would separate the executioner from the murderer? Without judgment, society would crumble, but so too without compassion.
Is it normal that in my opinion some people don't deserve love?
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You feel people should be denied love because you personally don't like them?
No I'd call that "not normal".
Everyone deserves love, even the people you dislike. After all perhaps some of them feel you don't deserve love too. So where would that leave you?
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Anonymous Post Author
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Congratulations! You're getting an award for compeletely missunderstanding my question.
It's not because I "personally don't like them", I don't like 99% of all people. It's because they are in fact evil, and bad, and - not worthy of love.
So, you think guys like Andrew Kehoe or Andrei Chikatilo deserved to be loved? (and please don't gimmie that speech about their hard lifes and not having been loved during the childhood).
An fully grown up, already bloody handed mass murderer and child molester ALSO deserves love, like everybody else. Is that what you are saying?
--
Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
11 years ago
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Your problem is that you are mistaken on several things.
1) Your original list of criteria said NOTHING about mass murders and molesters. You only talked about people who were "ugly and scruffy, stupid and mischievous people you see on a daily basis."
Your list sounds more like it's based on appearance, personal opinion, and light misbehaving. But somehow everyone's suppose to know you meant molesters, rapists, and other hardened criminals?
2) You seem to be under the assumption that "deserving of love" means the same thing as "not punishing people for their actions"
Where in my reply did I ever state people shouldn't be punished for their crimes? No where. You just ASSUMED it because I said they "deserved love"
Yes people can - and should - be punished for their actions.
But they can still be loved.
To me it's like... a man I knew in the Navy. I saw him on the cover of the Navy Times a few years ago. He was being sent to the brig following a court martial. His crime was seducing others (even using his rank for it) while knowing he was HIV positive.
It was weird because he was someone I had liked.
According to your post it seems I'm suppose to hate him now. But I don't. Yes he deserves every bit of the punishment he gets. Yet I can't stop pitying him for his own sexual addictions and hope that he can change. It doesn't mean I'd trust him again but I am not obliged to hate his guts either.
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1) I really couldn't make it any easier. Read the first question of my story. It says: "Do you think there are people who don't deserve to be loved?" As an example(!) I wrote about people, who are combinations of all the bad things that came to my mind.
2) Lovely story about that Navy man, but it doesn't hit the point of my question. So that man is still deserving of love, in your opinion. That's fine. Is there somebody, anybody, who isn't? It is in fact a very, very simple question.
I'll start. I think, a person, who combines all the bad traits one can have in him - ugly and scruffy, stupid and mischievous, coldblooded killer with a nasty habit of killing and raping little school girls without remorse, is not worthy of love. Such a person does not deserve love. Do you, or do you not agree with that?
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Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
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taciturn
11 years ago
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Again there are two problems.
1) You assume everyone is suppose to hate. And that love means being gentle and coddling.
Love of all people does not mean we have to give up on punishing them. You can include them in "love for mankind" and still want justice to be taken on them.
2) Your list of what traits these criminals have is inaccurate. You seem to think they're all ugly, dumb, and scruffy.
Yet if you actually studied the 'worst of the worst' you will find that it's the opposite.
The worst of them were actually smart, well groomed, and attractive. If anything these positive features HELPED them gain access to their victims. They were so "successful" (if you want to call it success) at what they did because people originally judged them on appearance and like you they assumed "good looks" meant "good person".
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Anonymous Post Author
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I feel like I'm talking chinese here...
For the record: of course I do NOT think all criminals are ugly, dumb, and scruffy. I have seen enough actual criminals in my life. I am talking about a hypothetical case. Let's say there were a guy, who is *put everything bad in here* all those things. You think he deserves love, even after he anally raped his 6 daughters or killed 1000 new born babies. It's fine.
I think I get your position now. You're all for love + punishment, or love during punishment or something.
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Angel_in_a_Glass_Dress
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look up "tough love"
Part of love is administering punishment.
you punish because you want them to learn.
I'm going to have to agree with Angel, "ugly and scruffy, stupid and mischievous people you see on a daily basis" sounds a lot more like "that kid in high school" than "cold-blooded serial killer". In fact, none of those traits are really inherently evil to me. I see what you're saying now, but don't patronize someone for misunderstanding your poor wording.
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Allright. My choice of words and my phrasing might not have been the best. My apologies for the poor wording, to you and to Angel.
I really thought the first sentence made the question clear. Which is: Whether there is at least one person - the kid in high school, the cold blooded serial killer, me, Charles Manson or Adolf Hitler - who doesn't/didn't deserve love.
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taciturn
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It's an interesting question, really, and a difficult one. Assuming that by "love" you mean some kind of compassion or understanding, then I'd probably argue that yes, everyone is deserving of that. The idea that we should kill killers on the grounds that killing is bad has always been a bizarre idea to me. What would separate the executioner from the murderer? Without judgment, society would crumble, but so too without compassion.